Business And Economy Archive

Thread: Every One should read this before Making comentary on the Galactic ecomony......

elmomcelroy
Wed Feb 02, 2005 6:47 pm
#1

This was a letter written quite some time ago but the point it makes is very important.


http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/content.jsp?page=Astromech%20Stats%20Economy


Certain types of inflationary trends exist in the economy, this is a fact it is not only recognized by the DEV's it is something that they actively look at....
I hope you all enjoy this and i hope it facilitates your discussions.



"Once the game is over the king and the pawn go back in the same box" Italian proverb
JuCat
Wed Feb 02, 2005 9:34 pm
#2

very interesting.... shows you exactly how HUGE of a blow the solo group nerf was.






JuJu VooDoo .. AI


Phaelyn
Wed Feb 02, 2005 10:47 pm
#3






JuCat wrote:

very interesting.... shows you exactly how HUGE of a blow the solo group nerf was.






If you're referring to the dip in payoffs and spending on the charts presented - If that WAS the date of the solo nerf - you'll see that spending and incoming money bounced right back to EXACTLY the levels they were at before.


However if I recall, the date it shows was a day that all the servers were down for a portion of the day.



Phael'yn Maxlord
- I support Common Sense - Too bad it's in short supply.

Quote that sums up the current, flawed direction of SWG:
"No, I do everything solo and I see no reason why I should need anyone else"

A way to bring Combatant and Crafter together.
ObiQuixote
Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:37 am
#4

If I recall that was from well before solo groups became popular.

Kalano
Thu Feb 03, 2005 2:36 am
#5






Phaelyn wrote:





JuCat wrote:

very interesting.... shows you exactly how HUGE of a blow the solo group nerf was.






If you're referring to the dip in payoffs and spending on the charts presented - If that WAS the date of the solo nerf - you'll see that spending and incoming money bounced right back to EXACTLY the levels they were at before.


However if I recall, the date it shows was a day that all the servers were down for a portion of the day.







If you look at the date the FF came out, it was April. April of 2003 or 4. Can't remember which one and i'm to tired to find out. Look it up in past FF's and it will be there.


This not anywhere near the solo nerf. its at least over a year old. Infact, it was before the big banning of bria for duped credits. Ah, the memories of that time and why i permently left bria.




_______________________________________________________________________

Blah, Blah, Blah, Yackity, Smackity. Its all the same bull, just new packaging

Ithorians do it in stereo - Ikkoso Ylise

So long, and thanks for all the fish.
AudioOrgana
Thu Feb 03, 2005 2:55 am
#6

LOL I hardly think a FF from almost a year ago written by someone who doesn't even work for this game anymore is terribly relevant.

I'd think this thread is the only required reading in this forum right now.

AO
nbd9k
Thu Feb 03, 2005 7:39 pm
#7








AudioOrgana wrote:
LOL I hardly think a FF from almost a year ago written by someone who doesn't even work for this game anymore is terribly relevant.

I'd think this thread is the only required reading in this forum right now.

AO






Ya know, youre awfully trusting in an opinion from someone who doesnt have the server stats sitting on their desk. and last i looked Holocron is still on the SOE roster. ease up on that flaming.




Ledao
Thu Feb 03, 2005 8:49 pm
#8






elmomcelroy wrote:

This was a letter written quite some time ago but the point it makes is very important.


http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/content.jsp?page=Astromech%20Stats%20Economy


Certain types of inflationary trends exist in the economy, this is a fact it is not only recognized by the DEV's it is something that they actively look at....
I hope you all enjoy this and i hope it facilitates your discussions.







Thanks for the link -- I'd lost track of that one...


However, I'm afraid you're a bit off in your analysis. What the article shows is that there is more money flowing out of the economy than there is flowing in -- deliberately.


Inflation, on the other hand, is defined thus:


in·fla·tionn.



  1. The act of inflating or the state of being inflated.
  2. A persistent increase in the level of consumer prices or a persistent decline in the purchasing power of money, caused by an increase in available currency and credit beyond the proportion of available goods and services.

Now, since we know from Raph's graph that there's more money flowing out than in, what else do we know? Well, we also know that there are more resources (and loot) coming in than going out (if for no other reason than that there are a vast number of craftable things that do not decay). Of course, more resources means more crafted goods. More crafted goods means greater supply, which, unless accompanied by a correspondent increase in user base, tends to mean lower demand, and thereby lower pries.


So what do we have?


de·fla·tionn.



  1. The act of deflating or the condition of being deflated.
  2. A persistent decrease in the level of consumer prices or a persistent increase in the purchasing power of money because of a reduction in available currency and credit.
  3. The erosion of soil by the wind.

Why yes, we have Deflation. Note the part in yellow. That means one of two things: 1. X amount of money buys you more of Y; or 2. X amount of money buys you a better Y. And yes, both are true, across the board...



The fact that high-end skilltapes or exceptional Krayt tissues or things like that go for millions and millions of credits has nothing to do with inflation or deflation -- it has simply to do with the fact that in SWG, just as in real life (and as Mr. Koster pointed out in the article you linked to), the vast majority of the weath is concentrated in a very small percentage of the population. Even if the scale decreased, so that +25 armor experimentation tape became 5 million credits instead of 50 million, the gap between the rich and the poor would likelybe just as great.


(And my thanks to www.dictionary.com for the concise definitions)





Ledao Bohi, Master Doctor
Now with 3 locations: Ledao's Meds in beautiful downtown Galatorbria, Rori (327 -1770), Ledao's Fine Pharmaceuticals @ UAT City, near Coronet (970, -5590), and Ledao's Premium Meds and Resources on Tatooine @ (-1922, -4041) just 750m SW of Bestine.
Comprehensive Stock and Price Listing Here
nbd9k
Thu Feb 03, 2005 9:27 pm
#9

not my intention to flame here, but the reason explained in that very article was that the reason they discovered the outflow was higher than the inflow was because of credit duping. they had a massive outflow but they still had inflation.


not only that, but the whole reason the link was posted was to remind everyone that SOE is aware of all the issues regarding the economy, so all the other threads complaining about inflation are unnecessary.


-at least, thats my understanding.


another important thing to take from holocrons message was the interesting distribution of money across the server. most people are poor, but the wealthy are REALLY wealthy. since they can afford to pay the standard maintinance fees for everything, they dont suffer from the outflow the same way the average person does, and thats why the inflation rate is either stable or increasing over time.



keep in mind, i know absolutely nothing about business. i just kill stuff.
elmomcelroy
Thu Feb 03, 2005 9:37 pm
#10


Thanks for your comment ledao but pleas note that this letter was written in 04 when credit duping was rampant and the group solo was yet to be exploited... i posted this as a comentary on two point .... Devs recognize inflation exists .... Devs want to and are doing things about it.....
Thanks to dictionary.com for the following
mo•ron (môrn, mr-)
n.
1. A stupid person; a dolt.
2. Psychology. A person of mild mental retardation having a mental age of from 7 to 12 years and generally having communication and social skills enabling some degree of academic or vocational education. The term belongs to a classification system no longer in use and is now considered offensive.




"Once the game is over the king and the pawn go back in the same box" Italian proverb
beyowulf
Fri Feb 04, 2005 2:04 pm
#11






elmomcelroy wrote:


Thanks for your comment ledao but pleas note that this letter was written in 04 when credit duping was rampant and the group solo was yet to be exploited... i posted this as a comentary on two point .... Devs recognize inflation exists .... Devs want to and are doing things about it.....
Thanks to dictionary.com for the following....





I've kept accurate personal records since October of 2003 to track prices-I've used this data to have an idea where my own prices fit relative to the market. Granted, these numbers are for one server, but I think they say something about the level of inflation we are seeing on everyday items:


  • The average price of all meds other then buffs sold on Tempest has not varied more then 5% in the last 15 months.

  • Buffpricesspiked for two clear factors: the boom in popularity of buff usage in late 2003/early 2004 followed by the resultingAvian meatprice effects caused by buff popularity. It should be noted, though, that after demand caused the spike, prices stablized and insomecases declined.

  • The same pricing is true of most commonly crafted items-armor, weapons, resources, etc.

The one place that shows "inflation" are in the prices of elite or high quality items-but that's discussed at length and to great effect in the link in AO's post and Ledao's comments. The average, everyday stuff we need- things like foods, meds, weapons, armor, weapons, and structures has not inflated at all...or in such small amounts that it's insignificant.


Are the Devs taking actions that effect the economy? ...you bet. Anyone that fails to realize that our little virtual world is a Pysch 102 mouse training experiment and we're the mice hasn't been looking around very hard.


When the cost of my everyday purchases-factories, harvesters, power, general resources, foods, weapons, and armor among others-starts to inflate in price more then a few percentage points in year, then I'll buy into the idea that inflation on everyday items is currently wide-spread and rampant.



Beyowulf Shaefferr -Master Doctor/Commando-in-Training
Member of Riverlands Guild and Resident of Riverlands, Corellia
Co-Founder of Definitive, Inc.
beyowulf
Fri Feb 04, 2005 2:12 pm
#12






elmomcelroy wrote:
Thanks to dictionary.com for the following.......




The sad thing about ending a post with a personal attack is that in the end it makes sure that no one appreciates the possible wisdom of your other remarks....and someone one-starred you to demonstrate that fact.




Beyowulf Shaefferr -Master Doctor/Commando-in-Training
Member of Riverlands Guild and Resident of Riverlands, Corellia
Co-Founder of Definitive, Inc.
Ledao
Fri Feb 04, 2005 4:49 pm
#13






elmomcelroy wrote:


Thanks for your comment ledao but pleas note that this letter was written in 04 when credit duping was rampant and the group solo was yet to be exploited... i posted this as a comentary on two point .... Devs recognize inflation exists .... Devs want to and are doing things about it.....
Thanks to dictionary.com for the following
mo•ron (môrn, mr-)
n.
1. A stupid person; a dolt.
2. Psychology. A person of mild mental retardation having a mental age of from 7 to 12 years and generally having communication and social skills enabling some degree of academic or vocational education. The term belongs to a classification system no longer in use and is now considered offensive.








I agree with you that in early 04, immediately after the credit dupes, the devs recognized that inflation existed.


However, you usethe present tense in the above, as well as in your original post:


"Certain types of inflationary trends exist in the economy, this is a fact it is not only recognized by the DEV's it is something that they actively look at...."

This leads me to belive that you think that inflation continues to exist. I find this to be an untenable position, for the reasons listed in my post above, as well asbecause the increase in price of rare goods has nothing to do with inflation, deflation, or anything of the sort, and (to the best of my knowledge) we haven't had a dupe bug in over a year.



(And no, I didn't one-star you.)





Ledao Bohi, Master Doctor
Now with 3 locations: Ledao's Meds in beautiful downtown Galatorbria, Rori (327 -1770), Ledao's Fine Pharmaceuticals @ UAT City, near Coronet (970, -5590), and Ledao's Premium Meds and Resources on Tatooine @ (-1922, -4041) just 750m SW of Bestine.
Comprehensive Stock and Price Listing Here
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