Business And Economy Archive

Thread: New vendor changes coming.

Phaelyn
Sat Feb 12, 2005 7:05 pm
#40






Windsbreath wrote:






Phaelyn wrote:


I'll buy the cheapest good weapon I can find, and group up with you.





And you'd buy that weapon on the galactic bazaar, right?

Message Edited by Windsbreath on 02-12-2005 09:03 PM



Since it appears as if we'll have no other choice, yup.




Phael'yn Maxlord
- I support Common Sense - Too bad it's in short supply.

Quote that sums up the current, flawed direction of SWG:
"No, I do everything solo and I see no reason why I should need anyone else"

A way to bring Combatant and Crafter together.
Mosdl
Sat Feb 12, 2005 7:40 pm
#41

My main shop and vendors are located in a player city right next to the Krayt spawns.

My main non-shipwright related product I sell are vehicules. A lot of them. My guess is people loose a lot due to hunting and often need to replace them fast. I use good materials, so I sell them pretty expensive (90% swoops at 38k and they still sell like butter).

So if they could buy and get fedexed cheaper Swoops, I would get hurt. If they need to travel to get it, I might just need to lower my prices

Remember, you need to use a vendor to do the searching (at least according to the FAQ they posted), so that might not make the situation that bad.



---
Mosdl
Master Shipwright, Master Artisan on Ahazi

Tatooine: Mos Oasis, Tatooine (4810 4062)
Bestine: -5233 3256 (900 meters outside of Theed)
Phaelyn
Sat Feb 12, 2005 7:52 pm
#42






Mosdl wrote:
My main shop and vendors are located in a player city right next to the Krayt spawns.

My main non-shipwright related product I sell are vehicules. A lot of them. My guess is people loose a lot due to hunting and often need to replace them fast. I use good materials, so I sell them pretty expensive (90% swoops at 38k and they still sell like butter).

So if they could buy and get fedexed cheaper Swoops, I would get hurt. If they need to travel to get it, I might just need to lower my prices

Remember, you need to use a vendor to do the searching (at least according to the FAQ they posted), so that might not make the situation that bad.





That makes the situation even WORSE, in my opinion.


Using the bazaar to search the Galaxy for goods will create a large price war- OK, I will survive that, I have a bank account to weather the idiots who will undervalue their goods, and go out of business.


But using MY Vendor to searh AND purchase? That's just flat out wrong - Let me paint you the picture:


You own Mosdl's Pizza Delivery service. One day, you decide to give your loyal customers free Internet access. A perk, and that can't hurt, right? Well, your customers come in, and before they order your Large Pepperoni, they use your free Internet to look up someone else's Large Pepperoni. Finding that your Pizza costs $1 more, theyORDER the Pizza with the Internet, PAY using your internet, and leave to go get their pizza somewhere else.


Why in the world would any merchant want to let customers buy somebody elses goods? Especially since we Merchants won't even receive a fee for using our vendors/



Phael'yn Maxlord
- I support Common Sense - Too bad it's in short supply.

Quote that sums up the current, flawed direction of SWG:
"No, I do everything solo and I see no reason why I should need anyone else"

A way to bring Combatant and Crafter together.
HunterCotC
Sat Feb 12, 2005 8:41 pm
#43

I think that's a great idea - I can remove vendors from 3 planets, stock insane amounts of armor in 1 location, and cut my vendor maintenance time by 3/4.


As for customers, from what I read, everyone is assuming customers are dumb. I think that's a little ignorant. As crafters/merchants it is our responsibility to make shopping as easy as possible for consumers. Customer's will compare items much more easily without wasting time. The people that are going to complain about this are the ones selling an inferior product at inflated prices. I openly welcome the changes.

Bhasayate
Sat Feb 12, 2005 8:58 pm
#44



HunterCotC wrote:
I think that's a great idea - I can remove vendors from 3 planets, stock insane amounts of armor in 1 location, and cut my vendor maintenance time by 3/4.
As for customers, from what I read, everyone is assuming customers are dumb. I think that's a little ignorant. As crafters/merchants it is our responsibility to make shopping as easy as possible for consumers. Customer's will compare items much more easily without wasting time. The people that are going to complain about this are the ones selling an inferior product at inflated prices. I openly welcome the changes.





In RL customers are dumb.

Honest.

I was a computer salesperson. And telemarketing works! And stupid ads work, too.



OMG I'M BACK ON SWG!
Mosdl
Sat Feb 12, 2005 10:02 pm
#45



Phaelyn wrote:


Mosdl wrote:
My main shop and vendors are located in a player city right next to the Krayt spawns.

My main non-shipwright related product I sell are vehicules. A lot of them. My guess is people loose a lot due to hunting and often need to replace them fast. I use good materials, so I sell them pretty expensive (90% swoops at 38k and they still sell like butter).

So if they could buy and get fedexed cheaper Swoops, I would get hurt. If they need to travel to get it, I might just need to lower my prices

Remember, you need to use a vendor to do the searching (at least according to the FAQ they posted), so that might not make the situation that bad.


That makes the situation even WORSE, in my opinion.
Using the bazaar to search the Galaxy for goods will create a large price war - OK, I will survive that, I have a bank account to weather the idiots who will undervalue their goods, and go out of business.
But using MY Vendor to searh AND purchase? That's just flat out wrong - Let me paint you the picture:
You own Mosdl's Pizza Delivery service. One day, you decide to give your loyal customers free Internet access. A perk, and that can't hurt, right? Well, your customers come in, and before they order your Large Pepperoni, they use your free Internet to look up someone else's Large Pepperoni. Finding that your Pizza costs $1 more, they ORDER the Pizza with the Internet, PAY using your internet, and leave to go get their pizza somewhere else.
Why in the world would any merchant want to let customers buy somebody elses goods? Especially since we Merchants won't even receive a fee for using our vendors/





I still think instant satisfaction will be a factor. Also, listings for many categories will be really long and require patience. You can't just sort by price, as most people care about quality too.

No matter what, this will be interesting to see how it affects the economy. If it really does help the big sellers only, we might have to pressure SOE to remove it. Maybe we can get some economic data from them too when this goes live and see how it affects prices.



---
Mosdl
Master Shipwright, Master Artisan on Ahazi

Tatooine: Mos Oasis, Tatooine (4810 4062)
Bestine: -5233 3256 (900 meters outside of Theed)
bluejanus
Sat Feb 12, 2005 10:38 pm
#46



GrupertRHD wrote:


Phaelyn wrote:


GrupertRHD wrote:
It will be a good thing, it will reduce wasted time going to places where are empty, or near empty vendors/shops. And it will bring prices down, and frankly, I, and most people could care less about the cry babies that don't want this.

And most people are TIRED of wasting time running around to find just one item. Don't don't like this idea? Tough, live with it and shut up, or move on somewhere else.


Maybe we are all crying. But, hey - Let me offer you a counter proposal.
Let me move to Ahazi. I'll buy the cheapest good weapon I can find, and group up with you. OK, now that we are grouped, i will let you do all the fighting, all the killing, and take all the risks. All *I* will do is have a weapon, since it's required in combat, and just make money & XP from the missions you run.
Sound fair? That's the Combat version of what this change will do. If they announce tomorrow that YOU *must* do this, will you accept it? Or will you do as we are now, and cry foul?
You'd be yelling even louder than we are. You'd probably say "Why can Phaelyn get rewards for MY effort, MY kills? This isn't fair, only *I* should get credit for my kills!".. And you'd be right. Just as all of the Crafting community is right in hating THIS idea we have had given to us.





You like several here, make no sense at all. So you make less than you do now. So what. You will make up for it in selling more units. And this, you would be booted from my team in a second if you did nothing. In fact, I'd pull some nasty mob onto you after booting you.




Selling more units? You make it sound easy to produce more. Plus you have to hope it does sell on the bazaar that everyone is using now.





Isander Aperin - Kettemoor Master Architect (home: Serenity, Naboo)
Structures vendor in the HorkCo Shop near Coronet, Corellia (CLOSED)
Structures vendors in the Mos Mesric Mall near Mos Espa, Tatooine (CLOSED)
Structures, jedi kit, crafting station and resource vendors in Serenity near Kaadara, Naboo (CLOSED)
IntoTheGarbage
Sat Feb 12, 2005 10:50 pm
#47


Wow, the fear of this change is truly palatable. I find it very interesting actually. It goes to show how the game can sometimes mirror real life, at least in the economy. Anytime there is a change that will increase the competition, established merchants and manufacturers recoil with fear and dire predictions.


First, I am going to at least TRY to dispel a few myths.


1. The under cutters will drive us all out of business.


No, they won’t. The new market is going to be very large. If someone drops a factory run of cheap goods they will be gobbled up by consumers (and other retailers who will then flip them for a profit). It would take a dedicated cadre of players, consistently dumping the same goods into the market, and consistently losing money, before they will have any impact on the market.


2. Prices are going to bottom out.


Some prices will go down. This is not the end of the world. It has been stated here many times. If prices go too low, crafters will quit. Therefore, prices WON’T go too low. If prices drop, they will only drop as low as the average crafter can tolerate. The game is NOT full of people mastering crafts just to start a price war and go broke. Sensible crafters like you and I dominate the market for finished goods, prices will go as low as we are willing to tolerate it and no further.


Believe it or not, in some cases, they may actually go up! No, don’t roll your eyes, it’s true. The new vendor system will instantly give us all 100% access to the SWG market. Items that were desirable, but not critical to game play may very well increase in price. This is because while players may have wanted these items, they could not find them. (and did not look very hard as they are not critical) Now we can sell everything to everyone.


3. The bad outweighs the good, if any!


The plus side here is huge! We are getting instant access to every player in our galaxy! The opportunities are endless! Whole new markets will open up. For example:



Components. It will now be totally viable for a crafter to simply sell crates of components on the global market. This will, of course, open up whole new crafting options to crafters.


Low level equipment. It will be viable to sell mid range equipment used by the various combat classes.


All that other stuff in our data pad that we never make cause we figure no one will ever buy it. Well somebody somewhere will buy it! Now we can sell it to everyone at once, so we can find that someone and sell it to them.


Also,all of these new markets will create a viable way for novice crafters to make money. Finally with all these new markets, crafters will be able to diversify and specialize in a way that was unimaginable until now. This will actually decrease competition (and the dreaded price wars). If the market is too competitive for you, switch toanother itemfrom your proffession.


We are also being given the means to monitor the global market to the finest detail; from raw resource, to sub-component, to finished product. Making money is really going to be a matter of looking at what things cost, what you have, and what you can make, then deciding where you think your best profit lies.


Remember this isn’t real money, this is a game. We are being given this fabulous tool which will let us buy and sell whatever we want! Ok, so it will be more competitive. So what? Think back to when you first decided to go into crafting. Didn’t you expect part of the game to be watching the market, and carefully setting your prices to ensure you made a profit, yet stayed competitive? Now it will, and I look forward too it.


Worried, no! Excited, yes!!!!





___________________________________

Ok, just for the record, my original name was: IntoTheGarbageChuteFlyboy. However the names have since been shortened and my name went from really cool to really confusing.

Thank you for your patience.
Phaelyn
Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:17 pm
#48






IntoTheGarbage wrote:


Wow, the fear of this change is truly palatable. I find it very interesting actually. It goes to show how the game can sometimes mirror real life, at least in the economy. Anytime there is a change that will increase the competition, established merchants and manufacturers recoil with fear and dire predictions.


First, I am going to at least TRY to dispel a few myths.


OK, my turn to answer your myth busting.


1. The under cutters will drive us all out of business.


No, they won’t. The new market is going to be very large. If someone drops a factory run of cheap goods they will be gobbled up by consumers (and other retailers who will then flip them for a profit). It would take a dedicated cadre of players, consistently dumping the same goods into the market, and consistently losing money, before they will have any impact on the market.


IF the player base was to stay absolutely static, you are correct. However, new people are always coming into the game - Once one lowballer tires of losing money with aflawed market plan, another will take his place. Rinse and repeat ad infinitum.


2. Prices are going to bottom out.


Some prices will go down. This is not the end of the world. It has been stated here many times. If prices go too low, crafters will quit. Therefore, prices WON’T go too low. If prices drop, they will only drop as low as the average crafter can tolerate. The game is NOT full of people mastering crafts just to start a price war and go broke. Sensible crafters like you and I dominate the market for finished goods, prices will go as low as we are willing to tolerate it and no further.


Believe it or not, in some cases, they may actually go up! No, don’t roll your eyes, it’s true. The new vendor system will instantly give us all 100% access to the SWG market. Items that were desirable, but not critical to game play may very well increase in price. This is because while players may have wanted these items, they could not find them. (and did not look very hard as they are not critical) Now we can sell everything to everyone.


As a shipwright, I can't go much lower anyway - I don't fear lower prices. I mine my own resources, so I can actually compete rather well. I argue for the aspiring crafter who doesn't have my network.


3. The bad outweighs the good, if any!


The plus side here is huge! We are getting instant access to every player in our galaxy! The opportunities are endless! Whole new markets will open up. For example:



Components. It will now be totally viable for a crafter to simply sell crates of components on the global market. This will, of course, open up whole new crafting options to crafters.


Low level equipment. It will be viable to sell mid range equipment used by the various combat classes.


All that other stuff in our data pad that we never make cause we figure no one will ever buy it. Well somebody somewhere will buy it! Now we can sell it to everyone at once, so we can find that someone and sell it to them.


Also,all of these new markets will create a viable way for novice crafters to make money. Finally with all these new markets, crafters will be able to diversify and specialize in a way that was unimaginable until now. This will actually decrease competition (and the dreaded price wars). If the market is too competitive for you, switch toanother itemfrom your proffession.


We are also being given the means to monitor the global market to the finest detail; from raw resource, to sub-component, to finished product. Making money is really going to be a matter of looking at what things cost, what you have, and what you can make, then deciding where you think your best profit lies.


Remember this isn’t real money, this is a game. We are being given this fabulous tool which will let us buy and sell whatever we want! Ok, so it will be more competitive. So what? Think back to when you first decided to go into crafting. Didn’t you expect part of the game to be watching the market, and carefully setting your prices to ensure you made a profit, yet stayed competitive? Now it will, and I look forward too it.


Worried, no! Excited, yes!!!!


I have no problem with 90% of the system as proposed. The part I don't like, and will NEVER like, is that anyone can wander into my Mall - Use MY vendor to make a purchase from someone else - And I don't even get a small percentage for the use of my Lot or my vendor. If it were limited to JUST the Bazaar that people could search from, I would be absolutely silent about the situation.










Phael'yn Maxlord
- I support Common Sense - Too bad it's in short supply.

Quote that sums up the current, flawed direction of SWG:
"No, I do everything solo and I see no reason why I should need anyone else"

A way to bring Combatant and Crafter together.
Derku
Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:31 pm
#49






Bhasayate wrote:





HunterCotC wrote:

I think that's a great idea - I can remove vendors from 3 planets, stock insane amounts of armor in 1 location, and cut my vendor maintenance time by 3/4.


As for customers, from what I read, everyone is assuming customers are dumb. I think that's a little ignorant. As crafters/merchants it is our responsibility to make shopping as easy as possible for consumers. Customer's will compare items much more easily without wasting time. The people that are going to complain about this are the ones selling an inferior product at inflated prices. I openly welcome the changes.







In RL customers are dumb.

Honest.

I was a computer salesperson. And telemarketing works! And stupid ads work, too.





And look you bought SWG!!!



Gane Aprek
exitus acta probat


Phaelyn
Sun Feb 13, 2005 12:24 am
#50






GrupertRHD wrote:





Phaelyn wrote:







GrupertRHD wrote:
It will be a good thing, it will reduce wasted time going to places where are empty, or near empty vendors/shops. And it will bring prices down, and frankly, I, and most people could care less about the cry babies that don't want this.

And most people are TIRED of wasting time running around to find just one item. Don't don't like this idea? Tough, live with it and shut up, or move on somewhere else.


But, if there were no Mission terminals, you'd spend hours running around looking for spawns, and not say a word. If YOU want to play in a Shooter game, go buy one. This is an MMORPG. There you can have your instant "I Win" button, and be very happy.







Maybe we are all crying. But, hey - Let me offer you a counter proposal.


Let me move to Ahazi. I'll buy the cheapest good weapon I can find, and group up with you. OK, now that we are grouped, i will let you do all the fighting, all the killing, and take all the risks. All *I* will do is have a weapon, since it's required in combat, and just make money & XP from the missions you run.


Sound fair? That's the Combat version of what this change will do. If they announce tomorrow that YOU *must* do this, will you accept it? Or will you do as we are now, and cry foul?


You'd be yelling even louder than we are. You'd probably say "Why can Phaelyn get rewards for MY effort, MY kills? This isn't fair, only *I* should get credit for my kills!".. And you'd be right. Just as all of the Crafting community is right in hating THIS idea we have had given to us.







You like several here, make no sense at all. So you make less than you do now. So what. You will make up for it in selling more units. And this, you would be booted from my team in a second if you did nothing. In fact, I'd pull some nasty mob onto you after booting you.





Oh, so you WOULDN'T like me to use your services for free, Gruper? Since apparently you don't get an example, let me put it in simple terms..


The Devs making it so people can buy stuff from someone else on my vendor is EXACTLY like you having to give me free XP and cash by being on your team.


Actually, someone else put it better in another thread.


Combat Revamp to be JUST like this Merchant revamp suggestion:


Fighters now only have 1 Mission to select on Dathomir.. Fighters now have to bid to get missions -

Fighter A wants a mission, and bids that he will do it for 30k.

Fighter B, who wants the mission more bids that HE will do it for 25k.

Fighter C Wants the XP for FS grind, so bids he will do it for 10k.

Fighter D, who has been in game forever, and has more money than he needs, but just wants to do the mission bids he will do it for ONE CREDIT.


Sure, fighter D will make it up by running more missions, right? And since he already HAS money, he can do this all the time.


Would it be fair? Would you like this system? If THIS doesn't make sense to you, i will assume you just are arguing because you are cheap, and want lower prices. Some people aren't in this game to be fighters. Some want to craft. If I had wanted a One Person shooter game, I would have bought Battlegrounds.

Message Edited by Phaelyn on 02-13-2005 02:28 AM



Phael'yn Maxlord
- I support Common Sense - Too bad it's in short supply.

Quote that sums up the current, flawed direction of SWG:
"No, I do everything solo and I see no reason why I should need anyone else"

A way to bring Combatant and Crafter together.
Lambash
Sun Feb 13, 2005 12:59 am
#51






Phaelyn wrote:





Mosdl wrote:
My main shop and vendors are located in a player city right next to the Krayt spawns.

My main non-shipwright related product I sell are vehicules. A lot of them. My guess is people loose a lot due to hunting and often need to replace them fast. I use good materials, so I sell them pretty expensive (90% swoops at 38k and they still sell like butter).

So if they could buy and get fedexed cheaper Swoops, I would get hurt. If they need to travel to get it, I might just need to lower my prices

Remember, you need to use a vendor to do the searching (at least according to the FAQ they posted), so that might not make the situation that bad.





That makes the situation even WORSE, in my opinion.


Using the bazaar to search the Galaxy for goods will create a large price war- OK, I will survive that, I have a bank account to weather the idiots who will undervalue their goods, and go out of business.


But using MY Vendor to searh AND purchase? That's just flat out wrong - Let me paint you the picture:


You own Mosdl's Pizza Delivery service. One day, you decide to give your loyal customers free Internet access. A perk, and that can't hurt, right? Well, your customers come in, and before they order your Large Pepperoni, they use your free Internet to look up someone else's Large Pepperoni. Finding that your Pizza costs $1 more, theyORDER the Pizza with the Internet, PAY using your internet, and leave to go get their pizza somewhere else.


Why in the world would any merchant want to let customers buy somebody elses goods? Especially since we Merchants won't even receive a fee for using our vendors/







Funny part with this change is that you merchants cant make your fancy profit no more. Welcome to real economy where the lowest price of a product that is equal in QL will sell over the one that is over priced.


For the matter btw, i am sick and f------ tired of going from shop to shop to find empty vendors. I dont care if there is 1001 painting in it, the vendors are empty and i wasted my time. So suck it up - live with it or close your shop then.




Ahtjoo - Money Makers
Master Bounty Hunter - Will become a Loot W-ore with patch 21
If your enemy is within your line of sight then you are within hes line of sight.

Muzz
Sun Feb 13, 2005 1:57 am
#52

My vendors are in a mall run by someone I have known ingame for quite a long time. There are about 15-20 vendors in the mall in total. The mall owner takes great pride in having a nicely decorated mall.... paintings, plants, nice looted items etc etc. It's a popular mall because it stocks what people want. My sales there are very good, according to Merchant's Friend since Jan 1st I have been averaging 5mil in sales per day. Now, it's possible my sales mightincrease even more with this Fed-Ex system but frankly i'd rather stay as I am.


I also can't see how it will drive prices down. With the galaxy vendor system if someone offers items at a price lower enough to over-ride other considerations then all that will happen is that their stuff will sell out very quickly (maybe even to one person who buys it all). Even the biggest, most established crafters can't keep up a constant supply of low priced items that will sell out very quickly.


What's to stop a rich Merchant using this new galaxy systemfrom buying up everyone's entire stock ofa particular itemand then selling it on at inflated prices? Infinity is a relatively small server, it won't take much to buy out all the Vasarian Brandy (or something else like that) without ever leaving CNet bazaar, and sell it on at 25k extra per crate. Nice little profit there. If people want Brandy, they'll have to pay.


Also, are shop bans now totally useless?


Just where does this leavemy ingamemall owner andhis pride and joy which he has put alot of time and effort into? No one will need to visit.


There have been alot of nice changes to the game lately, but there have also been two or three which have the potential to be rather disastrous to the game as a whole.



Orgama

Weaponsmith (12pt), Artisan (14pt), Merchant, Force Crafting Master
ludio ludius utpote 2003, in pello utpote 11/2005
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