Business And Economy Archive

Thread: Ideas to Enhance SWG Crafter Experience

Diorchas
Wed Mar 16, 2005 7:47 am
#27

Something I would really like to see as well is cooperative crafting where a group of crafters can create something that no one crafter can create on their own.
Tinkergirl
Wed Mar 16, 2005 9:38 am
#28

I'm not trying to hijack your thread - far from it, I think we have similar goals. I wrote the following in the Artisan forums and it was met with deafening silence. Maybe it can be hacked apart here and used in some form or other.

Proposal – Crafting Revamp ++
Aims
Overview
1. System (Prep, Schematics, Assembly, Crafting, Bar Stats, Specials, Rewards etc)
2. Schematic Distribution
3. Experimentation Points
4. Group Crafting
5. Crafting Theme Parks
Conclusion

Aims
1 – To bring crafting up to the same level as combat in terms of depth and excitement.
2 – To ensure that through game mechanics, crafters are made to feel as ‘worthy’ as combat characters.
3 – To bring a level of dynamism to crafting – rewarding the ATK player – and minimise ‘grind’.
Overview
I hope to introduce a new way of dynamic crafting – a (player and character) skill based and to an extent ‘turn based’ system more reminiscent of combat than the current repetitive click-fest.
1. System

Preparation
Preparation is the same as current system – you collect your ingredients with an eye on the applicable stats. Maximum stats of the final item are still limited by component quality.
You ensure you have the right tool, and possibly make sure you’re near a crafting station.
In light of later requirements, some people may choose to eat/drink buff foods and/or get entertainer buffed. (See below).
Choosing a Schematic
Choosing a schematic to make becomes slightly different – each schematic has a ‘complexity’ that will affect the difficulty of making a good item, compared to the player’s skill (experimentation skill points). I should note at this point that I think that the current system of plain crafting should be retained as a ‘practice only’ system. I don’t have the guts to propose removing all grinding possibility – others may be braver.
Assembling
You start up the crafting tool, place the ingredients into the slots (as per normal) and then click the ‘assemble’ button – from here on in, the system becomes quite different.
Crafting
On clicking ‘assemble’, a new window appears showing three bar stats (appropriate for the item/profession). There is also a bank of known ‘crafting specials’ to one side that the player may use (or these might be used on hotkeys, much like combat specials). There is also a timer showing time to completion (this might be a fourth bar for ‘completeness’).
Example of bar stats -
Heat
█ ███████████████████
Brittleness
███████████████ ███
Durability
███ ███████████████
Here, this looks like an ‘Engineering’ item that is being made.
Bar 1 (Heat) is an example of a bar that someone who was trying a complex item for their skill would look like – the ‘ideal’ zone (shown in the strongest colour) is small and the failure zones (shown in white) are fairly large. (Pointer indicates a failure.)
Bar 2 (Brittleness) is an example of a bar that someone would encounter were they making a schematic that was around their skill level – the ideal zone is fairly wide, though there is still ample area to fail in. (Pointer indicates an ideal success.)
Bar 3 (Durability) is an example of someone who is essentially bottom feeding – the ideal zone is huge and only tiny failure zones remain. Note – there is always a chance to fail and the end boxes are always a failure. (Pointer shows a ‘good’ success.)
The distribution of the zones (ideal, good, bad, fail) can be likened to the range modifiers on weapons – ideal, short and long range. The distribution is based on the skill of the character (experimentation skill) compared to the complexity of the item. So, as you saw with the above green bar – someone with high skill and a low complexity item would have a very large ‘ideal’ zone. Conversely, someone with low skill trying a complex schematic would have bars that looked more like the above blue bar with a small ‘ideal’ zone.
The ‘centre point’ of the ideal zone is random every time the crafting starts – sometimes it may be skewed to the left, sometimes to the right.
The player’s aim is to ensure that the pointers in the bars are as close to the ‘ideal’ zone as possible when the completeness bar reaches the end. The pointers move randomly each ‘crafting turn’ (similar to a ‘combat turn’, complete with queue) unless modified by the player. Modification is done through crafting ‘specials’.
Crafting Specials
Crafting Specials, gained at Novice of each crafting profession and then up the ‘Experimentation’ column of the tree, allow the player to modify the pointers on the bars while crafting. Like combat specials, they require energy to do (most often mind, though action will sometimes take a hit too) and they take a ‘crafting turn’ to come into effect.

Examples of specials might be things like “Thermal Dampening – Chance to reduce heat.” Or something more complex like “Polymer Welding – Durability increases, with a decrease in all other bars.”
Skills gained at Novice are likely to be more encompassing, rough and with less chance to allow fine tuning – “Radiation Blast – Randomise all three bars.” Or “Liquid Nitro – Reduce heat to nothing, increase brittleness to max.”
Bear in mind, that each profession will have different bar stats unique to them – while some Engineering bars will be reused in the advanced crafting professions based on it, some will be individual and require their own skills. Some Chef schematics may require ‘Heat’ but they’re unlikely to have ‘Durability’ – instead, they may have ‘Flavour’ or ‘Scent’ – which Engineering schematics would have no use for.
Success/Failure and Rewards
As each ‘crafting turn’ comes and goes, the completeness bar increases. Once the completeness bar is full, the crafting is over and the item is finished for better or for worse.
If any of the bars are in the failure zone, the crafting attempt was a failure and the components are returned to the inventory.
If ALL of the bars are in the failure zone, the crafting attempt was a CRITICAL failure, and all the components are destroyed. (This, for ATK crafters would be a rare occurrence).
If all of the bars are in colour, then the item has been created – if the bars were all in the ideal zone, then the item is as good as it can be made. Understandably, if any of the bars are less than ideal, then the applicable final characteristic is affected.
If the player manages to make something (i.e. – doesn’t fail) then 3 times the ‘normal’ xp is gained.
The player has used skills, spent HAM, risked losing components (through their own efforts, not randomness) and sat there for the length of the crafting session and ‘fought’ the failure-monster.
2. Schematic Distribution
In addition to this new crafting system, I’d also propose that at higher skill levels, people lose ‘certification’ for lower level schematics.
This would be to allow a market for the younger or more novice crafter who can only craft the more simple items of the profession. This should include components for some of the more advanced schematics. This was an idea that was bandied around before open Beta, and I believe it still has merit as a force for interaction and economy vitalisation. (Preferably, ideas for trade-bazaars would work well with this, with component makers being available to final item makers).
3. Experimentation Points
As has been discussed in other threads, I’d also support the idea where Novice crafters receive the maximum experimentation points (not entirely sure how this would work with the above crafting systems – ideas welcome). As only novices will be able to make novice items, this makes more sense.
4. Group Crafting
With items that are very complex (more complex than one person would feasibly be able to manage) group crafting would be the answer. In group crafting, each crafter must be in the group when the crafting starts and each crafter will see the crafting window open. Anyone in the crafting group may drag components into the crafting window to help make up the schematic.
When the crafting window appears, the bars are much longer (depending on how many crafters are in the group) but they’re all the same for the crafters in that same group. Each can use skills/specials to help move the bars and the person who initialised the crafting session gets the item at the successful conclusion. All participants get 4 times the normal xp. (This would have to be tested to avoid people who aren’t pulling their weight getting xp.)
Using this system, however, groups of Novices could take on much more complex items – and groups of Masters could take on ‘quest crafting’ – where a minimum number of crafters is required.
5. Crafting Theme Parks
In the cities, inside the (currently fake) buildings, would be labs, workshops, factories, junkshops, kitchens, and assorted other places of work. Places newly accessible by locked doors that only crafters are given permission to open. In these would be the ability to make super complex items – items that require more than one person to start crafting. Possibly items that require components made in different cities. Possibly even items that you can only craft two of. Essentially – items that are the crafting equivalent of the ‘phat lewt’ dropped by Aklay, Nyax, or any of the other big droppers.
Maybe they’re in highly dangerous areas – working with very unstable components – fail on ‘Heat’ and maybe it all explodes (and kills you all). These are high risk, co-operative, rewarding crafting missions the likes of such have only been seen available for combat characters.
Make sure there’s story to support them – maybe combat Binary Load Lifters of immense power can be created with special components from the labs of two scientists who don’t talk any more. Maybe the most potent alcohol known to the galaxy needs a secret ingredient that only Jabba’s ex chef knows the name of.
Give crafters what can only be described as unique, Star Wars-y, crafting based, group requiring, Legendary missions where all the strategy and planning of a dungeon raid is just as needed for success.
Conclusion
So, crafting specials, HAM costs, limited schematics, expanded experimentation points, group crafting and crafting theme parks. If these ideas went through, I believe that the crafting system of this game (which is already exceptional) would become as exciting, rewarding and as ‘worthy’ as combat.
I hope you agree.
All comments welcome, thanks. (Special thanks to Guruweaver for a little encouragement)



Books/Datapads, Photography and Libraries.|Game-Bases - Craftable Deathmatch etc.
Pazaak - Make and Play In-Game.|Solace Outpost - Story Arc Example.
Particle Emitters - Bubbles, Smoke and Sparks.|Sitting Vendors - Cosmetic Mini-Proposal.

DarthRoe
Wed Mar 16, 2005 12:23 pm
#29



TheRealTK421 wrote:
Roe,

I should have known you'd come up with something this good.

/agree


/bow

Respectfully,





Thanks, Doughie.



_____________________________________________________
Hahnn Vogel - Pilot for the Naboo RSF | Importer | Miner (Flurry)
Efon - Retired 12 pt. FS Master Droid Engineer | Former Mayor of Tranquility, Naboo (Ahazi)

Anthemion
Wed Mar 16, 2005 1:22 pm
#30

It seems that smugglers and crafters are on the slate for June. But there may be a push for more Episode III. stuff at that time.... I don't know.

Anyway, we should probably try to get a player vision statement together for them. This stuff here is an excellent start.




If you seek the truth, you will find it.

If you let someone tell you the truth, you will never know it.
An amusing game called ZeldereX
Poldano
Wed Mar 16, 2005 9:26 pm
#31

I'd like to say something about "novice certification".


One way to make novices viable is to make the novice schematicscompetitive without needing the assembly and experimentation points that higher-level crafters have. To say this a different way, make the possession of a large number of assembly and experimentation pointsunnecessary for lower-level schematics. Along with this, make the higher-end items better, across the board, than the lower-items, when using appropriate materials. This does not currently appear to be a consistent rule.


This way, a novice crafter can churn out competitive items of a particular type. A higher-level crafter can also turn out such items, but would prefer not to bottom-feed because the higher-level crafted itemswould beconsistently better, hence a more worthwhile use of material.


This is not a well-developed idea, so I'm sure there will be multiple criticisms and a lot of tuning variants. But I wanted to suggest something that does not go the wayof "forced" cooperation (for instance) but creates a motivation for specialization, hence cooperation.


Saego, Wanderhome
bluejanus
Wed Mar 16, 2005 9:39 pm
#32

Might be more of a market for novices if the lower items needed less experimentation to max on. A way to differentiate masters and novices would be to add many more schematics inbetween master and novice, so that it would be very difficult (read impossible) to stock everything.





Isander Aperin - Kettemoor Master Architect (home: Serenity, Naboo)
Structures vendor in the HorkCo Shop near Coronet, Corellia (CLOSED)
Structures vendors in the Mos Mesric Mall near Mos Espa, Tatooine (CLOSED)
Structures, jedi kit, crafting station and resource vendors in Serenity near Kaadara, Naboo (CLOSED)
Anthemion
Wed Mar 16, 2005 11:55 pm
#33

I would like to join the tinkergirl fan club.

Seriously though, that is a well thought out vision with alot of interesting material. I am particularly supportive of making lower level crafters able to make the best lower level items. If I was less sleepy, I'd consider this in more detail.




If you seek the truth, you will find it.

If you let someone tell you the truth, you will never know it.
An amusing game called ZeldereX
darkripper2000
Thu Mar 17, 2005 12:50 pm
#34

/sign



Gati Xefof- Lowca
(gnn[[[[[[[[[[]nnnWXggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg)
SnapperJack
Fri Mar 25, 2005 7:38 pm
#35

/Agree


We crafters need more content.



Burgun Ash - The Space Bum
FishyDude
Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:30 pm
#36

good post. I agree 110%



Atos Reshi: Master Armorsmith

DarthRoe
Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:56 pm
#37

/bump



_____________________________________________________
Hahnn Vogel - Pilot for the Naboo RSF | Importer | Miner (Flurry)
Efon - Retired 12 pt. FS Master Droid Engineer | Former Mayor of Tranquility, Naboo (Ahazi)

DarthRoe
Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:46 pm
#38




_____________________________________________________
Hahnn Vogel - Pilot for the Naboo RSF | Importer | Miner (Flurry)
Efon - Retired 12 pt. FS Master Droid Engineer | Former Mayor of Tranquility, Naboo (Ahazi)

DarthRoe
Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:04 am
#39

Well, SOE has shown us that crafting is on the way out and only the uber power gamers have their ear. They just shot themselves in the foot by alienating merchant/crafters the way they have, as combatants will leave with the next big MMORPG, crafters are (were) their only loyal base.



_____________________________________________________
Hahnn Vogel - Pilot for the Naboo RSF | Importer | Miner (Flurry)
Efon - Retired 12 pt. FS Master Droid Engineer | Former Mayor of Tranquility, Naboo (Ahazi)

Page 3 of 4