Business And Economy Archive
Thread: BARCING MAD! Barc and the Economy
Wow this is comical.... it truly shows the state of naivety and lack of grasp for the English language.....
Listen I go out of my way to HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP .... WOW rediculous direction with this response that is ABSOLUTELY OFF THE MARK of the original post!
Perhaps your comment about my limited grasp of the language would hold more weight if you had spelled ridiculous correctly...
But I digress....
THIS IS NOT ABOUT New players VS. Older players..... This is about an immediate Lottery win for all newer players and a total slap in the face to players with real ivestments. It's not about giving new players trinkets and incentives it's about integrity of the game. You don't here me crying because I cannot have that really cool set of sunglasses that was a special reward ..... and although I would like the Barc for obvious fan reasons that is not the point either.......
Read your statement above... Do you see the contradition btw your first sentence and the rest of the paragraph? As for the integrity of the game, it is not in danger. The credits paid for a BARC will be credits spent in the economy down the road. That's how an economy works. Even a virtual one. There is no more harm in a new player getting 5 mil day one than there is an old player hordeing millions of credits and rare items. Either the goods will find there way back into the economy or they will not. Since there are no real-world type consequences or rewards to being either rich or poor in the game, it doesn't really matter...to most of us at least. It certainly doesn't affect anyone's gameplay for good or ill. Even if it did, the economics of the game can be adjusted externally as needed. In fact, it is adjusted from time to time, you just don't notice it. Just to clear up any confusion CREDITS...ARE...NOT...INIFINITE. Credits are regulated using a pretty standard method for games with any kind of economy. I think there is even a post somewhere on the subject, but as a former developer, it didn't take long for meto deduce how this regulation was implemented. So your integrity argument doesn't hold water.
Here is an example perhaps you can grasp.... and forgive me for using a real life correlation to a game because this is about PRINCIPLE NOT greed and whining like a suck:
How would you feel if you were a War Veteran say WWI ... yes you were there when the s h*t went down and all your sons went off and fought in WW2. Let'ssay to make it interesting you losttwo of your three sons in the wars that respresent our freedoms as weknow it today. Okay now lets take it a step further and suggest that last week a new war broke out and the governement decided to reward those recruits a TRINKET worth MILLIONS if they go to the show in, let's say Iraq.... ( timeline is irrelovent heed the point )
Now all of a sudden as a war veteran with a humiliatingly modest war pension and HUGE LOSS and sacrifice to this country the government said you have already received your rewards you will receive NO MORE than what you already have from us!
Would you not feel like THE GOVERNMENT has treated you like a useless fop?! Could ANY person with honour and a sense of past and integrity justify this action?
Interesting that you would use such an example. Something similar DID happen after WW1. WW2 vets did receive benefits and compensation promised but later denied to WW1 vets. You know why? Because a lot of WW1 vets made sure that veterans of future wars got their due. They didn't want to see other go through what they did. You see, for them it was a matter of PRINCIPLE that those who sacrifice receive what they were promised, even if they received nobenefit themselves. Because, you see, they and all of the vets that came after them, didn't go to war for profit, but for principle (I won't speak to the motive of those who sent them). They were entitiled to the benefits they were promised, but had they been promised nothing, they still would have gone because they believed it was necessary. What other did or did not receive had no bearing on this nor did they stay up at night worrying about what the "other guy" got. They were not mercenaries.
So, what have we learned?:
People who fight for profit are called mercenaries.
People who whine that someone got something they didn't are called spoiled children.
Of those, the ones who try to hide their real motives behind principle are called unprincipled, spoiledchildren.
And lastly, don't use historical analogies if you don't understand history.
This concludes the lesson for today...:smileyvery-happy:
NOW PAY ATTENTION ..... AGAIN THIS IS ABOUT PRINCIPLE.... NOT ABOUT newer players vs. older players! Not about a game vs. real life! As an old veteran would probably again put his life in danger to sacrifice for the newer recruits lives and freedoms and survival abroad by offering anything they were capable of for their well being etc. so do MOST genuine players of SWG treat and respect Newer Players. This is because WE have been there before and WANT to help to some degree at least!Yes it's so obvious we need new players especially since SO MANY WERE LOST with CU.... but THERE WOULD BE NO SWG if not for the old fore fathers...lol...
Perhaps if you take ONE MINUTE to digest that correlation... and not run off at the mouth about pet peaves...lmao...you may understand the PRINCIPLE of the message!
I believe I do understand the principle
Blame it on the devs, and more probably, the correspondents for adding all this gee-whiz and unnecessary items to the game. I mean really, who cares? As I keep pounding away at, when a game gets to the point that the "stuff" in the game is more important than the "game", that's when the game has turned into a failure and they are reaching for anything and everything to save it. I saw it happen with UO, and I saw it happen with AO, and AO is now to the point that they have an assembly line pumping out 4 expansions in just more than a year and now offering a FREE YEAR of trial game time. Now that's what I call desperate, hehe.
And no, that's not all. Next month I'll be 2 years of continuous and uninterupted paying time. What do I get? The shaft, lol. For all my dedication to the game, I get a revamped combat system that still has the same problems after the change, as it does before the change. Oh boy, I can claim a tiny x-wing or tie fighter model to put in my house. I preferred the paintings they gave on the year anniversary, hehe. And it's not like a painting is gonna affect the economy or game balance. I'm sure the ebay freaks will use any excuse to justify their lama-o-rama profiteering, seeing as how SOE obviously must have removed section 7 of the TOA since they never seemed to enforce it anyways. I'd be very impressed if someone could even tell me what is/was in section 7 of the TOA that they had to click to agree to when starting up the game.
Anyways, good luck, i'm out.
Just Gwen
FeydmanKassan wrote:
Wow this is comical.... it truly shows the state of naivety and lack of grasp for the English language.....
Listen I go out of my way to HELP HELP HELP HELP HELP .... WOW rediculous direction with this response that is ABSOLUTELY OFF THE MARK of the original post!
Perhaps your comment about my limited grasp of the language would hold more weight if you had spelled ridiculous correctly...
THIS IS NOT ABOUT New players VS. Older players..... This is about an immediate Lottery win for all newer players and a total slap in the face to players with real ivestments. It's not about giving new players trinkets and incentives it's about integrity of the game. You don't here me crying because I cannot have that really cool set of sunglasses that was a special reward ..... and although I would like the Barc for obvious fan reasons that is not the point either.......
Read your statement above... Do you see the contradition btw your first sentence and the rest of the paragraph? As for the integrity of the game, it is not in danger. The credits paid for a BARC will be credits spent in the economy down the road. That's how an economy works. Even a virtual one. There is no more harm in a new player getting 5 mil day one than there is an old player hordeing millions of credits and rare items. Either the goods will find there way back into the economy or they will not. Since there are no real-world type consequences or rewards to being either rich or poor in the game, it doesn't really matter...to most of us at least. It certainly doesn't affect anyone's gameplay for good or ill. Even if it did, the economics of the game can be adjusted externally as needed. In fact, it is adjusted from time to time, you just don't notice it. Just to clear up any confusion CREDITS...ARE...NOT...INIFINITE. Credits are regulated using a pretty standard method for games with any kind of economy. I think there is even a post somewhere on the subject, but as a former developer, it didn't take long for meto deduce how this regulation was implemented. So your integrity argument doesn't hold water.
Here is an example perhaps you can grasp.... and forgive me for using a real life correlation to a game because this is about PRINCIPLE NOT greed and whining like a suck:
How would you feel if you were a War Veteran say WWI ... yes you were there when the s h*t went down and all your sons went off and fought in WW2. Let'ssay to make it interesting you losttwo of your three sons in the wars that respresent our freedoms as weknow it today. Okay now lets take it a step further and suggest that last week a new war broke out and the governement decided to reward those recruits a TRINKET worth MILLIONS if they go to the show in, let's say Iraq.... ( timeline is irrelovent heed the point )
Now all of a sudden as a war veteran with a humiliatingly modest war pension and HUGE LOSS and sacrifice to this country the government said you have already received your rewards you will receive NO MORE than what you already have from us!
Would you not feel like THE GOVERNMENT has treated you like a useless fop?! Could ANY person with honour and a sense of past and integrity justify this action?
Interesting that you would use such an example. Something similar DID happen after WW1. WW2 vets did receive benefits and compensation promised but later denied to WW1 vets. You know why? Because a lot of WW1 vets made sure that veterans of future wars got their due. They didn't want to see other go through what they did. You see, for them it was a matter of PRINCIPLE that those who sacrifice receive what they were promised, even if they received nobenefit themselves. Because, you see, they and all of the vets that came after them, didn't go to war for profit, but for principle (I won't speak to the motive of those who sent them). They were entitiled to the benefits they were promised, but had they been promised nothing, they still would have gone because they believed it was necessary. What other did or did not receive had no bearing on this nor did they stay up at night worrying about what the "other guy" got. They were not mercenaries.
So, what have we learned?:
People who fight for profit are called mercenaries.
People who whine that someone got something they didn't are called spoiled children.
Of those, the ones who try to hide their real motives behind principle are called unprincipled, spoiledchildren.
And lastly, don't use historical analogies if you don't understand history.
This concludes the lesson for today...:smileyvery-happy:
NOW PAY ATTENTION ..... AGAIN THIS IS ABOUT PRINCIPLE.... NOT ABOUT newer players vs. older players! Not about a game vs. real life! As an old veteran would probably again put his life in danger to sacrifice for the newer recruits lives and freedoms and survival abroad by offering anything they were capable of for their well being etc. so do MOST genuine players of SWG treat and respect Newer Players. This is because WE have been there before and WANT to help to some degree at least!Yes it's so obvious we need new players especially since SO MANY WERE LOST with CU.... but THERE WOULD BE NO SWG if not for the old fore fathers...lol...
Perhaps if you take ONE MINUTE to digest that correlation... and not run off at the mouth about pet peaves...lmao...you may understand the PRINCIPLE of the message!
I believe I do understand the principle
Feydman Kassan you totally missed it.... that's what happens when one starts their rebuttalwith aone dimensional approach. It is easy to convince yourself there is contradiction in everything when you dissect and truly GO AFTER IT as you deviously did.... Perhaps you remember when the Saturday Night Post first published C.S. Lewis cynical and controversial ' Screw Tape Letters ' .There were many ONE DIMENSIONAL readers that thought this author must be a Satanist when in actuality he is a born again Christian who I might add attributes his salvation to the influence of J.R.R. Tolkien. Together they wouldsit in his room at Oxford proofreading/ editing and no doubt correcting spelling at Tolkien's request... it was imperative to JRRT that CSL could grasp the Christian imagery in his fantasy masterpiece now widely acclaimed as Lord Of the Rings........sorry for the tangent ...
Alas, CONGRATULATIONS because on the surface you have cleverly crafted a full assault on me....well done old boy! I may even need stitches from that one...lol.... /hail medic
.... It is apparent to me WE COULD SIT IN A ROOM FOR DAYS AND Argee and disagree on nuances of language and the real message in a statement no matter what may seem obvious to one on the surface. Heck I would even let you correct my SPELLING just for your edification! LMAO But believe it or not when the spelling B started you would see a different side of me......lol
Politics moral stances etc etc..... Don't even PRETEND for a moment you can educate meON ECONOMY AND HISTORY AND PRINCIPLE..... You simply missed the heart and assumed your interpretation was the be all and end all...
Sometimes there is an honest message in a long winded statement and sometimes the TRUTH is so obvious that even the smartest people miss it completely.... Usually that is because they have a hidden adgenda as defined by the wonderful eloquence of your assault on me personally....... I have been cut deeper for little reason before don't you worry old boy
Believe what you want about why I posted regarding the Barc..... (quick side note- I already have one.... from a trade and I ride it)
Hmmm where do we go from here.... a new direction....
I would like to share with you that my Father was a war hero as was his father....My Father also dedicated the final Ten Years of his life, 7 of those battling with cancer, to craft a book for Veterans by veterans. Their voice with verified eyewitness accounts from all walks and ranks that were there! Including a few notable Entertainers.... It was a mammoth undertaking and it was on theCountries best seller list for a long while. My father was not alive when the book finally hit the stands. It is important for me to addthat my father nor our family received a pennyfor all of his work. That was the way it was intentionally set up!
Now Icannot begin to explainhow proud I am of myFather and how much I thank God for his instillingin me the principals and importance of integrity and honesty in life. He fought for my Freedoms and yours and your childs... sorry if that isa tough swallow. He never looked for accolade from his work with the United Nations or with Vetrans on both sides of the planet. With the exception of a modest pension that my mother still collects he wanted nothing but a future free of war and tyranny for all.
He believed that for the most part there was always more power in the pen.......
Good luck in your endeavours to go on helping the newer players get rich and well equipped. Glad my thread could at least motivate you to do something so positive with your gameplay....lol.....I expect your son will collect TEN FOLD from his initial loan to you.... he should feel proud of his daddy!
I will continue to help newer players and whomever I can as I have since day one almost a year ago now... whether they have more money than me or not...lol.... The one thing I have always learned in this game is that EVERYONE always needs help at some point! And yes sometimes I need a break from playing the game I love because it is so bugged and imbalanced now as it was before CU I take a couple minutes to post a thread or a response.....lol....
Yet another post with the same crap. ..
Let me address a few things first:
1. This is not a Noob vs Vet debate. Any "vet" could have waited and bought the Total Experience from a store like Best Buy and could be riding around on their own Barc. You do not need to create a new account either and trade it. All you do is register it just like any other expansion. I did this. I already had SWG & JTL. I waited the extra couple of weeks and bought the Retail version so I could get the Barc. Hell I paid $24.99 for it at Best Buy. So to say that only "noobs" got the Barc is BS. SOE said on the website that you had 2 ways to get ROTW. Either by doing the Download and getting the new mount. Or you could wait and get the Barc with the Retail Version.
So SOE did not reward the "Noobs" Everyone that bought the download had the chance to play the game for 2 weeks before the rest of us got to. So in that time you were able to do all the quests and sell the rewards.
2. As to the price of the Barc. If all the "Vets," that didnt bother to read and get the Retail version, would stop paying 1-10 Million for them then all the "Noobs" wouldnt have them. So blame yourselves for the price. If you dont like the price dont buy it. If people are willing to pay that much for them the price will go down.
3. The Barc can be repaired at any garage. If it becomes disabled then you will need the repair kit for it.
4. The Barc is the same speed as the Swoop if not a tad bit slower. So why pay that much for something you can buy for 20K.
5. Be happy that you can still play. With SOE putting out The Total Experience & Advertising it they are bringing in alot more people to play the game. Without them the game probally could have been shutdown. Especially after everyone quit because of the CU. Let me tell you about a personal experience. I use to play a game called Motor City Online. This was a combination RPG & Racing Game. EA made it and ran the servers. You bought the game and paid $10 a month I think to play it. EA wasnt smart though with the game. After the first month or 2 it was on the shelves you saw no more advertising for it. No new expansions. They did do free updates. But they didnt bring in any new customers. So eventually EA pulled the plug. So be happy SOE did this.
6. As to the idiot that tried to compare this to Wars. Are you stupid or what. You must be some ignorant kid. I cant believe you would have the nerve to disrespect Veterans. Real Life Veterans that is. This is a friggin game!!! These 2 things dont even come close to the same thing. Soliders fought and died in wars so we could play video games. Remember that. Have some respect.
7. If you dont like it Quit.
SidlandianTrufor wrote:
...
If the New Player sells their Barc Speeder .... INSTANT MULTI- MILLIONAIRE without breaking a sweat or even leaving the first ten foot perimeter of their Starport drop..... Economy and integrity in the game BUSTED...... NO ONE IN SOE OR ON THE PLANET can make a solid argument to suggest otherwise. Barc speeders at this time are amost at the value of an ADK on Ahazi....
...
All aside, it is the "Vets" paying the high credits for the bikes....So don't blame new players. Yell and scream at the vets they decided where the price should be set. Better yet cough up 25 real dollars and go buy the TE. I did, and many others have. If you cannot afford it, take a loan out for it, save your lunch money, or whatever. I will never sell mine...priceless.
I have seen many vet's attempting to and succedingat ripping these new players off, then turning around and selling the BARC to others for really jacked up prices. This in turn brought about the instant millions you speak of, becuase New Players caught on really fast....Again not thier fault. Vet's are leading by example, just not a good example in this case.
zador wrote:
alwayslost wrote:
Some of this reaction to the BARC speeders is sort of silly. How does it ruin the economy to take credits from one player and transfer them to another, in a completely voluntary transaction? Yeah, so new players can get amillion credits. So what.What will they buy that ruins the economy? They still have less credits than the guy who buys the BARC, since unlike real life, we know the BARC buyer didn't take out a mortage on his home to buy his mid-life crisisPorsche. OK, they can afford top class weapons and armor. So what,new playersaren't certified for either. And don't the crafters who get to sell houses or furniture or art or foods or weapons or whatever, to all these new players, have a role to play in the economy? I can see the point about making it too easy for new players, but even that only goes so far.Their credit balance won't stop that kreetle from killing their level 1 characters. The doorman won't let them waltz through the death watch bunker or the warren because of their bank statement. Even if you gave three million to new players, that's not enough to buyall the resources needed to grind some of the crafting professions. To advance in this game in anything but bank balance, one still has to earn the respective xp somewhere. Yeah money is a big step up (goodbye BER 4 personals, hello BER 13's), but it is only one step on a long journey. Ifa lot of wealthy veteransweren't just jealous of a simple BARC speeder, it wouldn't be abig deal.
The other way to look at this, is that it is easy to measure thereal life value of in-game credits. Anyone can buy the total experience,create an alt for one month, transfer the BARC speeder to their main character, and drop the new second account. You won't have to enrich some underserving player who simply joined the game we all like to play, and whose presence (and hopefully ongoing future presence) will help ensure that the game will still be here for all of us to enjoy.
It's not what they buy with it that is the problem, it's how much they pay for it that is one.
Let me explain: If a new player hits instant Millionare status they will have no idea of what price is normal and what price is too much. So when they go out and start to buy things they won't mind paying 250k for a crate of brandy (which is almost 3x the normal post CUcost)or 50k for a normal carbine. When the person who sells the crap sees that his stock is gone he'll think it's ok to keep selling at this price, then it wont be long before other ppl notice this and they'll raise their price too. Soon every brandy/gun seller would have increased his/her price as well, and the normal players are forced intopaying the new price. This in turn will cause the economy to heat up even more then it is now.
Now i don't know about you, but i don't really like the idea of paying 50k for a normal carbine when i can buy one now for 6k - 10k.
get a job! yeah that's what I said get a job! credis= pennies not dollar. that's what's so wrong with "COMBAT" UPGRADE: this is "not" a fps every one wants to, buy the game log in, and start huntinhg jedi...lol no one should even think about pvp untill they have mastered at least 3 non-combat profession, and one combat profession.
and if you can't bank enough credits to "suport" your combat by the time you've masterd it (and i mean uber suplys) then maybe this is the wrong game for you.
FeydmanKassan wrote:
I have a confession to make. You see, I'm one of those "undeserving n00bs" who had it easy.
When I started 2 months ago, I had the usual 1k and and melon. Fortunately, my RL son, a long time player, was a millionaire several times over. By the time he found me on Tat, I had sold my gun, spent my 1k and eaten my melon (didn't know what it was for). He gave me 500k, a bunch of uber weapons, 4 heavy harvesters, and a full set of comp armor. Quite a start for ones first day, huh. Well, after spending a month grinding my toon, group hunting and touring the galaxy, I found myself with little more than 1k credits, a house and the harvesters. At that point, I decided it was time to make my own living. In the past month, I have been able to make more than 3 million credits with my business. I know, I don't deserve that kind of success; I'm a n00b. Anyway, in a few months, if all goes well, I will never have to earn another credit in the game. Btw, I am paying my son back by selling him excess ore from my mining operation at cost. I also survey for both of us. To date, he's made about 1.5 million credits from his 1mil investment. :-)
Even more appalling, I not only got the DD, I bought the TT because I needed more lots. So I have both the BARC AND the lizard. So, I'm a multi-millionaire n00b with a cool speeder and an oversized iguana. I'm sure you find this state of affairs as appalling as I do.
But I do feel bad that I got so much stuff I didn't deserve. So, I decided to start making BARC repair kits (did I mention that one of my three ships is outfitted for mining?), and I'm going to give them away to as many n00bs as I can that still have their speeders. I'm going to tell them to either keep the speeder, or sell it and the kit for all the money they can get. All I ask in return is that they lay cash (or something really useful) on the first 3 penniless n00bs they see.
Now, why would I do this? Because in RL, people who have it all, but whine about others getting a few crumbs they didn't "earn", rub me the wrong way. That attitude with reqards to a game of all things, irks me even more. We should be helping new players instead of denigrating them and calling them undeserving. Without new players, this game has no future in the long term. And if ensuring that future means giving n00bs some trinkets, so be it. I will never get the Sorosuub vet reward. Somehow, I will learn to live with that along with the tons of other cool things SOE will offer new players in the future.
So instead of crying about a speeder (which is only slightly faster than a swoop and also decays twice as fast) show some love for the new player. Help them out. Give them advice. Show them the ropes. Give them some credits or goods to get started. Do what you can to make it easier for them than you had it. For example, you could teach them all of the languages you know. My first few days, half the people I met were speaking gibberish until someone just walked up to me and started to teach me all of the languages they knew. They never asked for a thing in return. I never even saw them again. What they gave me didn't cost them a thing but it made my life a LOT easier.
IMO, helping others sounds like a lot more fun than sitting around your virtual mansion admiring your virtual possessions and counting your virtual money.
Btw, I haven't forgotten about you long time uber rich players. You can have a BARC of your very own for the low price of 50 million credits. Hell, I'll even throw in a free repair kit! The lizard I'm keeping because I already lost it once trying to trade it from my datapad. A CSR took pity on me and gave it back, so I guess we were meant to be together. :-)
couldn't have said it better:i to recieved a helping hand as a noob (as a novice dancer always atk of course) i recieved a few very infleted tips, and once sone one "gave me a x34 (may not seam lioke much, but i never had one befor that) and as i do the same types of kindness to others i only ask that they do the same to some one else when given a chance =) it woun't make or break them, but it will make "that day brigher. by the way: i made 2.5 mil befor i even thought about combat. (took 2-3 months) master entertainer, dancer, ID, doc, marksman, and rifles, in that order =) and the 2 mil was befor doc.
d4mit Jim, i'm a doctor not a combat medic!