Business And Economy Archive

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Cafa wrote:
Anything that circumvents the merchant profession is bad, AFAIC. You use you r skill points to get what you want and let merchants use theirs to want they want.

Fivo Asia

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Well if it were to cost me skill points to do the exact same thing as we currently do on the trade forums, then I would still be on the trade forums with everyone else. My idea is to move all the activity on auctions and trades from the forums in game. The trade forums themselves circumvent merchats. There is no uproar over that. So if a similar system would be moved within the game why should there be an uproar over it as well?

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Cafa wrote:

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AnXdiety wrote:

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Cafa wrote:
Anything that circumvents the merchant profession is bad, AFAIC. You use you r skill points to get what you want and let merchants use theirs to want they want.

Fivo Asia

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Well if it were to cost me skill points to do the exact same thing as we currently do on the trade forums, then I would still be on the trade forums with everyone else. My idea is to move all the activity on auctions and trades from the forums in game. The trade forums themselves circumvent merchats. There is no uproar over that. So if a similar system would be moved within the game why should there be an uproar over it as well?

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Ah, so basically you only want this to benefit you and not others in the game who actually followed the design of SWG as it was intended. Sure....

Fivo Asia

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Lets not actually open the evil pandora's box regarding the game and the term 'design'. All this thread is, is a request for a feature that everyone would use. If you were to stick a skill point requirement on something everyone already does then people wouldn't pick up merchant just for that. They would continue using their tried and true methods, and developing the idea would be useless as not as many would use it and go back to what they can use for free already.

Perhaps if you wanted to go with giving the abilities to merchants to run auctions and have open auctions on the bazaar we could use a fee. The person selling would lose 5% of the total sale for the auction if through the bazaar. The fee is waved for merchants to encourage merchants to run their own auction houses. That would create a new credit sink, and give more reasoning to picking up merchant.

Edit: 5% is just an arbitrary number, it could be increased to something like 10 or 20 percent as well.

Message Edited by AnXdiety on 01-18-2005 03:53 PM

Message Edited by Cafa on 01-18-2005 12:58 PM

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Phaelyn wrote:

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AnXdiety wrote:
This is something I've mentioned in the past in a few places. The game supports an auction system in game that works with a credit cap. I suggest removing the 6k credit cap on Auctions on the Bazaar within game and allowing a buyout price to be set. Allowing players to run auctions on the Bazaar much the same way we run auctions on the trade forums. We could bring the solution to auctions that players have created for themselves on the forums to inside the actual game. Logically you would rather have players spending time within the game itself than on the forums.

All we would need to add is:

Remove the credit cap on only auctions on the bazaar. The instant sales can keep its cap as it is now.
Allow us to set the length of the auction in days, rather than the instant 7 day auction as it is currently.
Allow us to set a buyout price on auctions on the bazaar.

Those few options added to the auction section of the bazaar would bring a lot more people in game. The sorting options to find the items we want are already there.

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Actually, I see a different sort of thing entirely for an Auction system within the game. Let me lay out the idea:

1) Give Master Merchants an Auction house ability. They can work in association with the Mayor (Master Politician needed) and place the structure within a city. (To keep # of Auction houses down further, require said city to be Metropolis in size and improved Job Market, limited to ONE Auction house per city) - This also gives Master Architects a new building to craft - and potentially a new type of Vendor for them to build as well. (instead of the Merchant creating one, it would need to be crafted, as to be tied into the database & give several professions benefits from the new idea)

This is good, artisans can make some parts needed to make the terminals, arhcitects make the building and terminals with the parts from artisan.Mayors place the building. Merchants place the vendors.

2) The Auction house can hold a fixed number of the new special Vendors. This would make it so Auctions for different types of items could be restricted to one Vendor - IE, A Food vendor could only accept and Auction food items.

One question with this, would or should the special vendors count against the merchants vendor limits or the mayors building limits? I've never been a mayor so I don't know what thier limits to placing structures are. I say it should count against the merchants vendor limits though.

3) Seller would then offer his item to the Vendor, specifying his Minimum price, Increments and duration. Note that there should be no buyout price - If someone wishes to sell items at a fixed price, they would need to use a standard vendor. Also, Auctions should be not be able to be cancelled - if the seller chooses to sell at auction, they take the risk of the item selling at a lower price than if they sold it personally.

To add to this, a player should not be able to bid on an item if they do not have the cash......that would stop people from bidding like they do in the forums....make a high priced bid, win the auction and never show up with the cash and your stuck with the item they won....also, it would lessen the hurt from not being able to cancel an auction once it's been set up.....when they win an auction, the money would automatically come out of their bank account.....and to add insult to injury, the payment method can act just like banks do or like the jedi xp does....if you don't have the money in the bank to pay for the auction when it ends, you get a negative bank balance and must either run missions or sell things to get a postive balance to cover the cost that you owe....and until you get the money, you are charged an interest rate per day that goes directly to the auction holder or whatever cost you to have a negative balance. This would make people think twice about bidding on an auction and not payingor following through on an auction.....emails would be sent to auction winners automatically likeharversterdamage emails are sent so people don't forget about an auction....maybe even a email remindersent to the person everyday untileither the auction ends or the person is outbid bysomeone else.

I know a lot of people like to bid on things and they don't have the money right away but know they can have a buddy who's a millionaire give them the cash if they win the auction or they simply forget about the bids they made.....so to make this system more effiecient and beneficial to the auction holders as well as the the bidders.....up front cash is the only way to go.

4) Buyers can search each vendor for items they desire. They can input an opening bid, and a proxy bid. Again, no buyout price should be listed for an Auction.

It would be nice to get new vendors that don't look like normal vendors....just to have a different look and make the auction house a complete different experience from going into someones house looking at the same ole vendors.

5) Merchant receives a 5% fee from each Auction.

how about merchant recieves xp also.Mayor would recieve xp also for each completion of an auction. Mayors could also be allowed to set a fee for the use of the auction house and that money would go directly into the cities treasurey effectively recycling the money for the upkeep of the merchant house instead of upkeep coming from other sources like the shuttles, mission terminals and city taxes. otherwise, some mayors might want to raise city and sales taxes and that's not good for the citizens of a city who may or may not even use the auction house. The fee would have to have a limit though to stop abuse of the system (like putting too high of an entrance fee).....besides, you have to normally pay an entrance fee when you attend auctions right.....this is just asmall fee (perhaps a direct percentagebased on the cost of themaintenence of the auction house or something like that) and wouldadd another money sink into the game.

I think by adding a system such as the one laid out above, we can keep the Bazaar for the lower end items, Fixed price items on personal vendors, and create a new way for Merchants and Cities to gain prestige. As a by product, it would stimulate the in game economy to do just that - stay in game.

I really love this idea, I only hope the devs would like it too.....only concern I have though is how will this new system effect server stability and database space....otherwise 5 stars for you.......and I don't give ratings that often...

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HardwiredXMan wrote:

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Phaelyn wrote:

2) The Auction house can hold a fixed number of the new special Vendors. This would make it so Auctions for different types of items could be restricted to one Vendor - IE, A Food vendor could only accept and Auction food items.

One question with this, would or should the special vendors count against the merchants vendor limits or the mayors building limits? I've never been a mayor so I don't know what thier limits to placing structures are. I say it should count against the merchants vendor limits though.

MY instinct is to say create an additional aspect of Merchant - Allow them to choose to Create a vendor (normal use) at cost of 1, and an Auction Vendor would be a cost of 2. So, if they are able to place say 10 vendors total, they make the decision based on their desire.. 5% of all sales or sales of their own.

3) Seller would then offer his item to the Vendor, specifying his Minimum price, Increments and duration. Note that there should be no buyout price - If someone wishes to sell items at a fixed price, they would need to use a standard vendor. Also, Auctions should be not be able to be cancelled - if the seller chooses to sell at auction, they take the risk of the item selling at a lower price than if they sold it personally.

To add to this, a player should not be able to bid on an item if they do not have the cash......that would stop people from bidding like they do in the forums....make a high priced bid, win the auction and never show up with the cash and your stuck with the item they won....also, it would lessen the hurt from not being able to cancel an auction once it's been set up.....when they win an auction, the money would automatically come out of their bank account.....and to add insult to injury, the payment method can act just like banks do or like the jedi xp does....if you don't have the money in the bank to pay for the auction when it ends, you get a negative bank balance and must either run missions or sell things to get a postive balance to cover the cost that you owe....and until you get the money, you are charged an interest rate per day that goes directly to the auction holder or whatever cost you to have a negative balance. This would make people think twice about bidding on an auction and not payingor following through on an auction.....emails would be sent to auction winners automatically likeharversterdamage emails are sent so people don't forget about an auction....maybe even a email remindersent to the person everyday untileither the auction ends or the person is outbid bysomeone else.

I know a lot of people like to bid on things and they don't have the money right away but know they can have a buddy who's a millionaire give them the cash if they win the auction or they simply forget about the bids they made.....so to make this system more effiecient and beneficial to the auction holders as well as the the bidders.....up front cash is the only way to go.

Well said - Yes, the funds on any bid should go into Escrow, and not delivered to either party until A) The Proxy bid is exceeded - return to bigger. B) Timer ends, and sale goes through - Funds delivered to Merchant.

4) Buyers can search each vendor for items they desire. They can input an opening bid, and a proxy bid. Again, no buyout price should be listed for an Auction.

It would be nice to get new vendors that don't look like normal vendors....just to have a different look and make the auction house a complete different experience from going into someones house looking at the same ole vendors.

Since they'd be a crafted item, I heartily agree - variations in color, style, etc.. Make each Auction house a totally differnt feel.

5) Merchant receives a 5% fee from each Auction.

how about merchant recieves xp also.Mayor would recieve xp also for each completion of an auction. Mayors could also be allowed to set a fee for the use of the auction house and that money would go directly into the cities treasurey effectively recycling the money for the upkeep of the merchant house instead of upkeep coming from other sources like the shuttles, mission terminals and city taxes. otherwise, some mayors might want to raise city and sales taxes and that's not good for the citizens of a city who may or may not even use the auction house. The fee would have to have a limit though to stop abuse of the system (like putting too high of an entrance fee).....besides, you have to normally pay an entrance fee when you attend auctions right.....this is just asmall fee (perhaps a direct percentagebased on the cost of themaintenence of the auction house or something like that) and wouldadd another money sink into the game.

Honestly, Merchants get XP pretty easily already. The Mayor could use the XP boost. I dislike the Entrance fee idea though - the idea is to create an open marlet type situation, and setting a fee to enter just to find there is nothing on Auction that you want MAY incline players not to enter. As a Prestige location, it should indeed tied to the Citiy economy - but since the Merchant is receiving the Lion;s share through the 5% (If items were to be selling millions of credits worth of goods, 5% would become a hefty amount) - I think the split is more like this 5% fee = 3% to the merchant, 1% to the city treasury, 1% to "imperial taxes" - Making 1% as a full drain to eliminate some of the credit glut. In addition, the 3% for the merchant goes into the Auction houses own Treasury that the Merchant can draw from, IE the way a Mayor or Guild master can remove funds.

I think by adding a system such as the one laid out above, we can keep the Bazaar for the lower end items, Fixed price items on personal vendors, and create a new way for Merchants and Cities to gain prestige. As a by product, it would stimulate the in game economy to do just that - stay in game.

I really love this idea, I only hope the devs would like it too.....only concern I have though is how will this new system effect server stability and database space....otherwise 5 stars for you.......and I don't give ratings that often...

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Honestly, it;s not that much of an addition to the database. A slight modification of the Bazaar functions to create the Auctions, add a few more pieces of graphics, easily modified from existing items. The only question left is stability.. And THAT is anyone's guess. I appreciate your kind words - and seeing as we've crossed paths on a few threads, allow me to say that the discussions are wonderful - great to see that discourse CAN be had on forums without flaming.

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I Agree. The database shouldnt be a issue. it would be more or less a copy of the bazar code with a few things removed. If done that way it should also be fairly stable. The bazars are time tested so a copy of the code used for them should be fairly stable. I say fairly cause lets admit it, nothing in this game come out without bugs.

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Phaelyn wrote:
5) Merchant receives a 5% fee from each Auction.

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Most likely this wont work. Eventually a server will evolve to one are two very successful auction houses. 5% percent off the top of all auctions going to a couple of accounts could be a huge amount of money. 10's of millions a day.

Moving auctions from the trade forums into the game sounds like a great thing! As has been said, the bazaar is set up for it, it's secure, and everyone knows how to use it. Right now the auction function on the bazaar is RARELY used. Anything in the 1-6000 price range isn't worth haggling price over, except for perhaps resources, which you'll buy in many sets.

The advantage would be for the buyer and the seller. Much easier to find what you're looking for--the category system is decent, and sorting is a wonder compared to the "search" feature on the forums. The seller is guaranteed their payment if the auction is successful, and there is no delivery required.

Since auctions are already handled and supported in game, I do not see these small changes as taking away from the Merchant profession. Merchants get skills that will allow them to auction items at a lower cost and otherwise promote their items. Their main asset is their ability to sell on their private vendors, through planetary advertisement, which works very well for them and potential customers. A Merchant is not an Auctioneer, unless a branch title has been changed recently without my knowledge.

I would even by fine for just removing the cap for auctions only. If the change was a success, I'm sure it wouldn't be much work to add the buyout option later. Shorter auctions would be very appreciated (7 days is a lot for an auction), but I'd rather see auctions become viable and supported by the community rather than the idea be shot down by the devs.

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ObiQuixote wrote:

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Phaelyn wrote:
5) Merchant receives a 5% fee from each Auction.

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Most likely this wont work. Eventually a server will evolve to one are two very successful auction houses. 5% percent off the top of all auctions going to a couple of accounts could be a huge amount of money. 10's of millions a day.

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But that's kind of the point, actually. Firstly, the 5% shouldn't go directly to the Merchant, as we've laid out in other messages. There SHOULD only be 1 or 2 competing houses - it is a "Prestige" location that a LOT of factors have to go into being able to use. The main factor that makes it very possible is the fact that it serves many purposes, including buy not limited to:

Adding Content

Creating a Money Drain (taxation)

Bringing the trade Forums IN the game instead of outside of it.

I never even mentioned about 10 other improvements or modifications within the context of my idea, because I didn't want to muddy the waters. For instance, someone mentioned an Auctioneer NPC - What if INSTEAD the Merchant could "hire" an Auctioneer (A real person in game) to run Live auctions? The Auctioneer would apply through a Mission Terminal type arrangement, seleting # of Auctions they wish to run. Through their service (an interface within the Auction terminal itself, where they could refresh to see new bids, and announce to the crowd), these Auctioneers receive 1% of the total sale, with that amount coming out of the Auction house's account. This creates a new flavor to the situation, spreads the money out even further, and creates a lot of buzz.

Point is, there are MANY things that could be done with the original idea.

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Scorpy_LF wrote:

I highly agree. Mostly this would save us a lot of convienence in sorting through all these auctions on the forums and 3rd party sites. And for those of us posting, save us a lot of time and effort of writing stats down, or taking screen shotsto provide stats on our goods. I'm a Master Weaponsmith, and it can take me up to a half hour to make a single post.

The possitives of doing this would it would save a lot of forum data space, save the moderators time of browsing auction forums, and ensure that people do come through on their auctions. Would also save us a lot of time of delivering our goods, or trying to find the vendor to pick up this order, which could potentially be picked up by another player.

The negative side, well it would add to the ingame databases. There is still the possibility people could with hold on their auction.

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Yeah, they should let everyonemake guns as well as you do as a Master Weaponsmith wihtout any skillpoint investment too. That's the equivalent of what you are suggesting. It gives everyone the benefits of being a Merchant without spending any skillpoints.