Business And Economy Archive
Thread: The Unfortunate truth about Credits.*UPDATED*
Tavtrin
Thu Mar 10, 2005 4:48 am
#14
Totally agree with the post. It seems many people suffer from the "single player" state of mind. In which a came takes you 30 hours to beat, andin that time you can go to the highest level of the game and do everything. If your really impatient you can even use cheat codes(solo groups) to speed youself along.
falllacy
Thu Mar 10, 2005 5:14 am
#15
If they really wanted to do it right, they would jsut copy the crafting and loot system from WoW. 
Then there wouldn't be these problems. And people could play in a group, or solo, whatever their pleasure...and still could enjoy the game.
and maybe throw in a few monsters with unique attacks, as per WoW as well..instead of just giving everything insane resistances.
but I digress. ;p
Aurteris
Thu Mar 10, 2005 5:19 am
#16
Try dueling without armors and buffs, makes it so much more fun, you dont need to stand beating on the other guy for 3hours and 40 min to make him him killing him self with his specials. PVP with buffs and armors isent fun. Its just standing there waiting for a buff to run out if its two good pvp players
ZinaTheMaker
Thu Mar 10, 2005 5:19 am
#17
Phaelyn wrote:
Myth #5: "Crafters are the only rich people in the game, and they do it by charging too much"
This one has SOME basis in truth. Many Crafters DO overcharge. On the flip side, there are quite a few Crafters out there that charge a LOT less for their product - But they are harder to find. They don't HAVE the completely convenient location next to Coronet or Theed. They are the little guy in a Player City of some Guild, who doesn't put their vendor on the Planetary Map because they get all the business they desire from their friends. There are Crafters out there who have little more credits than you do - because they craft for the challenge, and not profit.
It may seem to you all that I am being harsh, and critical. And I am. I'm not afraid to tell you how much I have in my In Game account - I have 8 Million credits. I made 1/2 of those credits from selling Resources. The other 1/2 I get through missions and looting. I can't afford to buy +25 Skill tapes, "Uber" weapons, multiple ADKs, or a lot of the things people are saying they MUST have. I don't go around in the game Buffed and Armored - I save that for special hunts, etc. I have everything in game I absolutely NEED. And if I WANY something, I know I will get it eventually. I don't need them right NOW. Even if I have to loot things myself. Even if i do without some other things to get the 1 thing I absolutely want. I have every opportunity to get everything I want in this game - Because I am willing to take time, and not throw credits around/
i can agree with the first 4, however a loot hunter is the richest person in the game, not the crafter. crafters have a more steady stream of income, but loot hunters make major bank. remember, who is finding the +25 tapes etc, and the pearls, crystals. those are where the easy money is made.
the fact is that credits are infront of each and everyone of us. some of us have to make sacrifices as to what we truely enjoy ingame, but those sacrifices are greatly beneficial in the longrun if the player is smart.
Draxie
Thu Mar 10, 2005 5:28 am
#18
looks like you ALL have a point here...
there are people who overcharge...and people who are not.
I see some disbalance in combat content though...there is much very high content and much very low content.
it's either one way or the other....nothing much in between.
Everyone wants to craft and sell the best items ingame and that's why you won't see much 'less-then-perfect' items.....
Also does everyone want to sell their stuff at the highest prices (obvious).
example: I have tried numerous vendors when developing a new character on a new server and -tried- to buy some Brandy.
all were packed in large crates for 200-400k per crate.
The crafters didn't sell some lone packs of Brandy for less credits.
So you either pay the main prize or you get nothing.
All content is aimed at the players with the big wallets.
not complaining about that, but it's simply the truth.
one thing though....'why not craft items for the noob players?'
umm....which noob players?
it looks like all 'newbies' and mmorpg-hopping gamers have already left since EQ2 and WOW were released.
Let's face it...the reputation SWG created for itsself didn't do the game any good either.
Servers are much less populated a.k.a more empty these days and the low-skilled/newly created players these days are -almost- all players with more then 1 account or alts from jediplayers.
REAL new players who start playing SWG for the first time are almost all gone.
either way..maybe the CU will help.
And like I have posted many times before;
=look at EQ2....maybe NPC vendors who buy loot and sell items could be introduced?
that helps the newb get some credits and can get him some nice items to use to get to a higher level.
let crafters create the high end content and let NPC traders sell armor like bone armor or somenice weapons etc...let the crafters create the high end and uberitems and all should be fine=
there are people who overcharge...and people who are not.
I see some disbalance in combat content though...there is much very high content and much very low content.
it's either one way or the other....nothing much in between.
Everyone wants to craft and sell the best items ingame and that's why you won't see much 'less-then-perfect' items.....
Also does everyone want to sell their stuff at the highest prices (obvious).
example: I have tried numerous vendors when developing a new character on a new server and -tried- to buy some Brandy.
all were packed in large crates for 200-400k per crate.
The crafters didn't sell some lone packs of Brandy for less credits.
So you either pay the main prize or you get nothing.
All content is aimed at the players with the big wallets.
not complaining about that, but it's simply the truth.
one thing though....'why not craft items for the noob players?'
umm....which noob players?
it looks like all 'newbies' and mmorpg-hopping gamers have already left since EQ2 and WOW were released.
Let's face it...the reputation SWG created for itsself didn't do the game any good either.
Servers are much less populated a.k.a more empty these days and the low-skilled/newly created players these days are -almost- all players with more then 1 account or alts from jediplayers.
REAL new players who start playing SWG for the first time are almost all gone.
either way..maybe the CU will help.
And like I have posted many times before;
=look at EQ2....maybe NPC vendors who buy loot and sell items could be introduced?
that helps the newb get some credits and can get him some nice items to use to get to a higher level.
let crafters create the high end content and let NPC traders sell armor like bone armor or somenice weapons etc...let the crafters create the high end and uberitems and all should be fine=
Message Edited by Draxie on 03-10-2005 01:30 PM
EttaBrummi
Thu Mar 10, 2005 5:29 am
#19
The inference is that a new character, with only one account, stands virtually no chance of competing at the top end of the marketplace. none. zero. lots, ability to gather loot to get money to buy tapes, etc, is simply not there. not going to happen.
Sorry, i can't agree with that. There's no chance to get all that in the first two weeks. Yes, it costs time, a huge amount of time. Is every player willing and able to invest the time required ? No, absolutely not. This game is rewarding the players that are investing time. Butlately the usual opinion has been that every player that plays 2 hours a week should get/have everything in this game.
I usually don't compare it with the real life, but this point is the same in-game and in real life. If i invest time and effort into something, i'll get rewarded (well, most of the time 
).
).
Sonax
Thu Mar 10, 2005 5:45 am
#20
Message Edited by Sonax on 03-10-2005 05:03 AM
Gooney
Thu Mar 10, 2005 5:49 am
#21
Falllacy,
You seem to be exactly the type of player this whole thread is talking too. You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding between the two words "Want" and "Need".
That is what the first poster is trying to make panifully and logically clear.
SWG is a complex game, but more importantly it is an MMOG in a persistant world. Which means that the development of your character IS the game. The Journey IS the game. The gathering of useful items, wealth, and increasing skill, and in-game knowledge is all a part of this journey and part of the development of your character, but no single one of those items alone is the game.
The economy of this game is actually one of the best implemented in any mmog, in fact I cant think of a single MMOG that has a better implemented or working economy.
-Gooney
BTW your user id suits your posts very well.
Sonax
Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:03 am
#22
Just wanted to through my two cents in here. I have about 18 million credits, I have ust spent 3 million on trying to get resources and harvestors for shipwrite, and 4 million for a +5 rifle speed AA. how did I get all my money? SPACE. I go and do a black sun duty mission everyday, I have looted two black sun ACE fighter helmets which I then sold for 10 million credits a piece on the trade forums, why did I sell them for that much? Because I wanted to keep them, you see it isn't about being greedy, It's about value. Did I value the BSA helmet more then 10 million creds? no I decided I wanted to make a Shipwrite, and get some Rifleman Enhancements. Now I am still in Space and I am still trying to get another BSA Helmet, this time so that I can keep it because it really is a cool helm.
My Second point... Shipwrite. Ok of all the crafting professions out there I could have spent all my credits on exp CA's for weaponsmith, that would have been the better investment, people would have wanted to buy my weapons cause they would have been superior to the average guys, but instead I made a SW, what does a SW have to sell? paint and texture kits...? yay,
Launchers and Missles...? yay again rebels don't even need to buy missles. Components?... I have yet to see any component (except a well thought out booster) that was better then a good looted part (not re'd mind you, just a good one). Chassis's...? well check the SW forums for info on undercutting. Lastly RE'ing...? again no there are too many shipwrites who offer to do it for free. SO my point, again, is why make a shipwrite? BECAUSE IT IS FUN. This game is about having fun, I want to see a crafted parts vendor with my characters company's name on each part, I want to make specific models of items, to me this looks like fun, and yeah maybe I will make some creds off of my paint and texture kits but truth be told in the long run I am going to have to have a resource vendor too otherwise... this three million cred investment (I still need about 4 million resources) is going to be for nothing but fun... Butshouldn't that be why we are playing a game?
Phaelyn
Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:33 am
#23
falllacy wrote:
is crafting a choice, too? if so, you can choose to get all the tapes necessary for your profession..or you can choose to craft and not sell anything.
And high end content isn't all about loot. But...what else is there to do that's remotely challenging? Grind out another profession? Run around and collect badges? Sit in the cantina and listen to middle-aged men disguised as twi'leks try to seduce youngsters out of tips?
There are no real quests or anything immersive to do. So..what else is there?
I suppose if you're a hardcore roleplayer you could make up something to do. ..but that is somewhat detached from the original question of whether or not the economy is broken.
When primary elements of the game are restricted based on the cash you have, that's a problem.
Message Edited by falllacy on 03-10-2005 03:04 AM
Let me ask you a question. Your date is 7-15-2003, as we all see. So, you must remember the times before vehicles, before 1 minute star travel, before Composite Armor and buffs. If you feel that you need all those things to compete and play this game - How did you survive the game THEN? You didn't HAVE Composite armor with 90% resists, or 2500+ stat buffs, but you managed to play the game and enjoy it, did you not? I know people PvPed in those days, as a LOT of what we see on other forums are posts saying "They miss the good old days before buffs, Composite armor and stacker templates". Times have changed, and a LOT of things that detract from the game have been added.
As a side note, I was a Weaponsmith once upon a time. As a mere 10 point WS, I made FAR more credits than I do now - And I had FAR less fun. I even bought into the "Have to get tapes to compete" in order to become a 12 point. And it became even MORE of a job, and LESS of fun. Those 2 points earned me constant tells for making more or different weapons. Those 2 points took up a LOT of my time. I sold off that suit WILLINGLY. I enjoy the game far more now then when I had the "I must have it all" mindset.
Phaelyn
Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:38 am
#24
falllacy wrote:
at launch, it wasn't an issue.
Now the game is polarized between the haves and have nots.
Try starting out as a new character today. and see how long it takes you to develop a presence.
Try fighting serious pvp'ers with inferior armor and weapons, and see what happens.
Try crafting with less than top of the line ingredients and experimentation, and see what happens.
Maybe you could sell junk speeders for bh's chasing jedi...but you're not going to make enough
to really compete in the market.
I do agree on one thing..the game was really fun back then. ;d
if they started a new server today, I would be on it. And then I would agree with the original post.
But until then, the game has evolved beyond the point where many of the mentioned items are 'optional'
Message Edited by falllacy on 03-10-2005 03:08 AM
Then, I'd like you to consider one thing based on your response here. Is it the Economy at fault for everything you have listed? Or is it possible the the one thing that EVERYONE agrees IS broken is at fault? This game DOES need a Combat Rebalance. Once people can compete on amore level playing field in Combat, with variety of weapons and armor,aLOT of these "Economic" issues will vanish.
Phaelyn
Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:54 am
#25
CureforSanity wrote:
Excellent topic and certainly interesting and thought provoking. Now where can I find details on these methods of earning 300 - 500k in a couple of hours? I've been playing SWG for a little while and am still virtually bankrupt and find taking on any higher end mobs and NPC's impossible without full armour and buffs
I've no desire to start hunting for illegal exploits which may result in my account being suspended nor do I see much fun in spending all my time outside Bestine killing Gnorts. Any help or suggestions appreciated.
Since I did the original post, allow me to point out a fallacy in my own theories - Many of them depend on one thing - Mastering a profession. I freely admit that BEFORE you master a combat profession, gathering credits CAN be a hassle. With that said - (And I certainly do not wish to suggest you limit your content options), using Tatooine as an example. There are 5k missions on Tatooine that are beyond easy. The MOBs you fight are only a bit harder than the Rills around the cities. Depending on your Profession, the missions take anywhere from 30 seconds to 2 minutes to complete. Get 2 of those missions that are in the same direction. Even more helpful is to run from Player cities that are close to each other - You can select mission towards 1 city, do the missions, and then select missions in THAT city in the direction of city 2. At worst, with 2 missions every 5 minutes, you can complete 24 missions per hour. That makes 120k per hour, or 360k in the time a standard Buff would last.
Once you master a Profession (Or several if you are 100% combat oriented), there are missions on Yavin that are extremely easy (Hutt expeditionary forces & Mawgax packs). These pay @ 9 to 12k each if grouped with a normal droid (NOT an AT ST). At the same 2 missions every 5 minutes as before, your earning is now 216k to 288k per hour. These DO require a buff to make them "easy", but the payoff is now MUCH higher than those easy Tatooine missions.
I hope these help.
maigy
Thu Mar 10, 2005 7:08 am
#26
falllacy wrote:
Try crafting with less than top of the line ingredients and experimentation, and see what happens.
Maybe you could sell junk speeders for bh's chasing jedi...but you're not going to make enough
to really compete in the market.
Message Edited by falllacy on 03-10-2005 03:08 AM
This is simply untrue. I was a 10 point WS for about 1 year before I finally got to 11 and I made good money... I didnt market myself well, I didn't higher out people to help me, but I still did an ok business for myself, I always ahd about 1-5 million in the bank. Now since the start of the year I have decided I wnated to go out and earn some good coin, I am now an 11 point WS and I noticed something the damage on my weapons hasnt changed, the Durability is a little higher, as a 10 point WS i was able to max out the damage on weapons, the extra point is hardly noticable. Anyway I have begun advertising more and to make a long story short with a little bit more work I have managed to make over 50 million this year, which is more than I made in the previous year and a half since launch, combined. I didnt need the 50 million credits to play and enjoy the game, I had fun all along, but I decided that I wanted to challenge myself to get to 100 million and it is a lot of work, but it is fun for now, but I think I may get burned out. I really hate running 10 equipment factories 24/7 and trying manage my now 18 mobile mobile harvester. It is very time consuming, but that is another thread.