CUEmu - Thread Posts

Kalano

Wed Sep 07, 2005 1:00 pm

Ever since i had JTL, i have never had a problem with money.

I am a beta vet. I lived on Bria for a long long time. I've only once have had a million credits on one single toon.

I do not at all agree with you. This is not a dev economy, its not a socalists economy. If you have problems trying to buy, try to cut back on your extravagansa. Learn what makes money for you the quickest. For me, its being a pilot. I make around 300k every time i fly for 2 hours. Yes, i had to spend a lot of time to get to a point to make easy cash, but it was worth it and i had fun.

Some suggestions on earning credits.

1) be a pilot (yeah, that was an obvious one) Mission payout, loot credits in a credit chip in the datapad, and also space loot that can be sold to the Chassie vendor who pays a cool 1k per lvl on each part.

2) sell hides, meat, and bones. find what the price is going for, and what types crafters want.

3) loot items. Now you don't have to loot high end items. infact, find the low end items that crafters want and need for the recyclers, those are not easy. Or the loot kit items, for the blue rug, the glass table, the gong, ect. Or posters. it seems like a lot of people want party posters.

4) terimal missions. Yes, they are boring, yes they are a grind, yes you hate it. But i point to #2 and #3. you get mission money, you get loot items, loot credits, and even possible Faction Points if you do faction missions.

I ran terminal missions just like all the rest. That is how i afford my first speeder on any new server i made a toon on.I mostly play as a crafter so i don't really get to do much looting, but i love to pilot.

Heck, as a pilot, i afforded to grind SW without, i really do mean, without an ounce of help from others.Way easy, oh, and i didn't sell any space loot either. That would have given me twice the credits i earned in the first place.

What really makes me sad, is that so many want to nerf crafters more. There is many reasons why things are so expensive. And most of the problems that cause it lead right back to the devs. The rest is just bad players, both ones who grief others, who cheat, those who just don't know how to shop around, and ones who want to be rewarded for the littlest of effort while punishing those who put more time in the game.

This is a capitalistic game, which means those who put the time in will earn more, and that can also mean some if not many items will not be in easy reach. I do not at all want a socialistic system that you want. I might as well play any other MMO. There crafters are just a worthless side job and not rewarded much for their efforts.

Next time you complain about prices. Please give an example of what you are trying to buy and the cost. And please put the exact info in, any of the cuff isn't good evidence.

Also, each server is different. Prices will vary, number of crafters vary. The amount of credits available vary. And the items most often sought vary.

One last thing. In my observation, which is not based on fact, just my view, those that complain about prices are complaining about LOOT type items that crafters have to make after they purchase the item from a COMBATANT who actually did the over pricing. That is why i ask for an example with all the facts.

_______________________________________________________________________

Blah, Blah, Blah, Yackity, Smackity. Its all the same bull, just new packaging

Ithorians do it in stereo - Ikkoso Ylise

So long, and thanks for all the fish.

TraceAntilles

Wed Sep 07, 2005 1:13 pm

#2

It doesn't matter if they want to make more money. I'm all for making more money. But the reason why people are charging millions for something isn't about making money. It's all about a) being able to afford something that is also selling for millions or b) reselling the credits for money on another website, i.e. EBAY.

This is not real complicated to comprehend how this affects any society, capitalist or not. But I'll break it down for the doubters:

Jim lives in Iraq but wants to get rich using the American Dollar.

Jim knows that the Iraq dollar is well under the US dollar in the exchange rate, so to get his money he needsby charging more from his Iraqi customers.

In the meantime, Jim gets richer and the Iraqi's get poorer cause they are expected to keep up with the US dollar, paying with their ever deflating Iraqi dollar.

(BTW this is how dictators get rich in these third world countries while their peasants get poorer.)

Look, I don't want to lose anyone on this example, so suffice it to say, when people are selling credits on any site for real dollars, the people in SWG-land suffer.

Keep SWG money in SWG and not on ebay and the rich will stay rich, in VIRTUAL REALITY. We aren't suppose to sell the credits on ebay anyway, so putting that aside, why else would someone overcharge on items?

Message Edited by TraceAntilles on 09-07-2005 01:15 PM

Through the force things you will see, other places, the future, the past; old friends long gone.

VisaKhart

Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:53 pm

#3

I agree that selling/buying credits on ebay is something that creates an unfair distribution of wealth within the game economy (besides being illegal under the SOE agreements, I assume [never read them, I just click "Accept"]).

However, these credits stay in the game, right? The seller transfers them to the buyer. It seems to me there is no other effect to the game economy than shifting credits around. In a strange way it could actually stimulate the economy, because credit sellers are most likely rich players who do not cosume as many new items any more (because they own them already) and credit buyers are probably mostly new players or players in need of certain item, which they then buy from their new riches.

Regardless of credit selling/buying being good or bad, your suggestion of a "Economy nerf" is dangerous and will do more harm than any credit seller/buyer could do.

When you say "prices are just through the roof", what do you mean? Can you still buy a swoop for under 20k on your server, a small house for under 10k and a 270 base DPS/90 SAC weapon for under 50k? I bet you can. If you are in the market for high end stuff and rare items you will pay millions, of course. But you don't really NEED the deathstar hologram. Depending on your template you might want to invest into skill tapes or uber-weapons at some stage, but these are high end items that will make you a high end crafter or fighter. High end comes with high price - on every server.

Capping prices is conceptually flawed. It is the end of the free player based economy as we know it. Pricing based on item complexity only works for crafted items. Do you really want SOE deciding for you what your items are worth? If you ever visited a junk dealer you might want to reconsider

TraceAntilles

Wed Sep 07, 2005 3:05 pm

#4

Alright, maybe capping the items is a bad idea, but the ebay credits are against the game rules, just as much as selling anything from SWG is and it indeed increases the amount of credits Vendors choose to sell their items at, knowing they can turn that around and sell it on ebay.

Let me put it another way. If 1 SWG credit equalled 1 US dollar, I guarantee you that no items would sell for millions. There'd be no need for it. You get my point yet? It's the FACT that the credits sell for just a terrible exchange rate on EBAY that the items sell for so much in SWG, not for their rarity or demand or anything else.

The economy will remain broken so long as SOE doesn't end this system of selling credits on Ebay and similar sites. The only way they can manage this is to balance the Vendor pricing system as far as I can see. If you see another way to curb the ability to sell credits on ebay, tell me.

Through the force things you will see, other places, the future, the past; old friends long gone.

VisaKhart

Wed Sep 07, 2005 3:13 pm

#5

TraceAntilles wrote:

Alright, maybe capping the items is a bad idea, but the ebay credits are against the game rules, just as much as selling anything from SWG is and it indeed increases the amount of credits Vendors choose to sell their items at, knowing they can turn that around and sell it on ebay.

Let me put it another way. If 1 SWG credit equalled 1 US dollar, I guarantee you that no items would sell for millions. There'd be no need for it. You get my point yet? It's the FACT that the credits sell for just a terrible exchange rate on EBAY that the items sell for so much in SWG, not for their rarity or demand or anything else.

The economy will remain broken so long as SOE doesn't end this system of selling credits on Ebay and similar sites. The only way they can manage this is to balance the Vendor pricing system as far as I can see. If you see another way to curb the ability to sell credits on ebay, tell me.

I think we're getting off you own topic of regulating the SWG economy a little bit

I don't know how to effectively control ebay credit selling/buying.

Most consumables manufactured by a large crafter base are affordable in-game (like in RL), rare items and luxury items are not (like in RL, buy a private plane, a motor yacht, a Rembrandt painting and youWILL spend millions).

The SWG economy is not broken as you imply, at least not more than any RL economy. But this is off topic.

EdOWar

Wed Sep 07, 2005 3:13 pm

#6

TraceAntilles wrote:

You could make it so items were like capped out on 5k per point of complexity or some similar thinking. The prices on the Gorath server are just through the roof, cause there inevitably are some geeks that go out on ebay, pay for credits, turn around and pay the Vendor for this virtual item, then that same vendor will sell the credits on ebay. A vicious circle that really makes no sense besides someone illegally making money off funny money.

It doesn't matter where they get the credits to afford these overly priced items, there still should be a system in place regulating the prices on these items based on their complexity. People were only able to afford these ridiculous items if they were also overcharging with pre-cu doc buffs or their alt's vendor. I can afford most of the items sold on this server, but I'm not about to patronize non-sense.

It's funny money, unless your turning around and selling it on ebay or another website. This really has no adverse affects on anyone but the illegal ebay pirates who have really screwed this economy.

Message Edited by TraceAntilles on 09-07-2005 12:40 PM

1) You are making a HUGE and unsubstantiated assumption that crafters are are selling credits on e-Bay. There may be a few crafters doing this, but hardly the majority of them. And I defy you to show ANY evidence to the contrary.

2) Imposing some sort of artificial price cap on crafted items only impairs the ability of crafters to enjoy the game. Crafters expect to be rewarded for their efforts, no less than combat players. This would be the equivalent of saying combat players can only run X number of missions a day and only loot one uber item a week. Combat players would leave the game in droves under such conditions. Likewise,artificial price caps will cause crafters to leave the game (and then who'll make your weapons and armor).

3) Those few crafters who stuck it out would simply sell items via the trade window instead of through a vendor. And they would charge more than ever because A) they would have far less competition and B) they would tack on an additional charge for the time and inconvenience of having to meet every customer face-to-face.

4) If you think prices are so high, then why don't you become a crafter and compete against them? Charge what you think is a fair price and steal their business away. If they want to compete, they'll have to reduce their prices. Simple economics.

Slim Vargo, Corbantis

CharPrime

Wed Sep 07, 2005 5:02 pm

#7

TraceAntilles wrote:

You could make it so items were like capped out on 5k per point of complexity or some similar thinking. The prices on the Gorath server are just through the roof, cause there inevitably are some geeks that go out on ebay, pay for credits, turn around and pay the Vendor for this virtual item, then that same vendor will sell the credits on ebay. A vicious circle that really makes no sense besides someone illegally making money off funny money.

It doesn't matter where they get the credits to afford these overly priced items, there still should be a system in place regulating the prices on these items based on their complexity. People were only able to afford these ridiculous items if they were also overcharging with pre-cu doc buffs or their alt's vendor. I can afford most of the items sold on this server, but I'm not about to patronize non-sense.

It's funny money, unless your turning around and selling it on ebay or another website. This really has no adverse affects on anyone but the illegal ebay pirates who have really screwed this economy.

Message Edited by TraceAntilles on 09-07-2005 12:40 PM

from the highlighted statement, you have no clue.

don't understand why people are always blaming everything on ebay credits if they aredon't havethe credits and its too lazy to go make it.

why buy credits when its so easy to make.

Vendor location kor vella -2931 1721.
Drop of vendor location kor vella -2897 1698

RIS quest and set completed on 6-12-04,

Pawlin

Wed Sep 07, 2005 5:23 pm

#8

TraceAntilles wrote:

You could make it so items were like capped out on 5k per point of complexity or some similar thinking. The prices on the Gorath server are just through the roof, cause there inevitably are some geeks that go out on ebay, pay for credits,

...

Ok, it looks like you think that the problem is that prices are too high and you think the cause is that people buy credits., And you propose the solution of price caps.

The problem does not exist.

There is no inflation. The economy is not broken. Supply and demand are working fine.If people are actually paying the prices asked then they aren't too high. If nobody is paying them then its meaningless since anyone can ask anything, it doesn't matt er unless someone pays it.

There is no evidence that ebay credits is damaging the economy in any meaningful way. A few people buying credits does not ruin an economy.

Your proposed solution would never work.

Price caps based on complexity won't work. Complexity for items is all over the place. A heavy harvester is complexity 35, a type 10 firework is complexity 11, a single ubese armor bracer is 15.It would make no sense. Plus complexity has nothing to do with quality. So you'd be paying the same for uber or crap.

Yoru proposed solution would actuallyruin the economy. If you setup price caps then it would reduce crafting to just item despensors. There would be no reason to make an uber item if we can't get an uber price. Everyone would standardize everything and all variety and competition would be gone. There are plenty of other MMOs without valid player driven economies, ifyou wantto buy goods from NPCs for set prices then try one of them.

Pawlin Construction of Kettemoor.
Harvesters and Crafting stations - Triad Coronet Mall just outside Coronet (-177 -5490)
Architect, House, Furniture, Harvester FAQ
Oprolan the Wookiee of Sunrunner. Cheap resources W. Daeric Talus (-639 -3058)
"Worst FF ever *thumbsdown*" -- Pawlin fan club
"I am not going to win Miss Congeniality again this year in the Senate." -- John McCain

** Please refer to Elyssa's answer

TraceAntilles

Thu Sep 08, 2005 12:38 am

#9

You could make it so items were like capped out on 5k per point of complexity or some similar thinking. The prices on the Gorath server are just through the roof, cause there inevitably are some geeks that go out on ebay, pay for credits, turn around and pay the Vendor for this virtual item, then that same vendor will sell the credits on ebay. A vicious circle that really makes no sense besides someone illegally making money off funny money.

It doesn't matter where they get the credits to afford these overly priced items, there still should be a system in place regulating the prices on these items based on their complexity. People were only able to afford these ridiculous items if they were also overcharging with pre-cu doc buffs or their alt's vendor. I can afford most of the items sold on this server, but I'm not about to patronize non-sense.

It's funny money, unless your turning around and selling it on ebay or another website. This really has no adverse affects on anyone but the illegal ebay pirates who have really screwed this economy.

Message Edited by TraceAntilles on 09-07-2005 12:40 PM

Through the force things you will see, other places, the future, the past; old friends long gone.

Leana_Txorana

Thu Sep 08, 2005 7:37 am

#10

but the ebay credits are against the game rules, just as much as selling anything from SWG is and it indeed increases the amount of credits Vendors choose to sell their items at, knowing they can turn that around and sell it on ebay.

Let me put it another way. If 1 SWG credit equalled 1 US dollar, I guarantee you that no items would sell for millions. There'd be no need for it. You get my point yet? It's the FACT that the credits sell for just a terrible exchange rate on EBAY that the items sell for so much in SWG, not for their rarity or demand or anything else.

1) I can sell power for 1 CPU and earn millions every month without EVER buying credits from ebay.

2) I can do missions and earn millions every month without EVER buying credits from ebay.

3) I can do missions and find rare items to sell and earn millions every month without EVER buying credits from ebay.

I can have plent of credits to buy things from other venders without using ebay. Thus when I want an item that 50 other people want, supply and demand become the ONLY reason the price of the item goes up. Me and 50 other people (neither of which use ebay) all can affort to paya price fixed value. Force the cost of the top of the line weapon to 1 million, all 50 of us not only can affort this but are willing to pay this. All items become rare because I can now afford to buy the top of the line weapon whenever I run across it. And I no longer need ADKs because I have plenty of spare top of the line weapons because I beat the other 49 people to the vendor.

Now if we let the market set the price and the price rises to 10 million, I may only be able to affort 1 or two weapons and that leaves the extra weapons available to the other people

Now on the other hand, if vendors set the price too high there will be more items available than there are to sell and price will drop if they want to sell there stuff.

There we have prices going up and down based on Supply/Demand without ebay comming into the picture.

www.usa4usa.blogspot.com
=========================================
There are 10 kinds of people, those who understand binary and those that don't
There's no place like 127.0.0.1
================================
3.14159 + Ice Cream = Pi ala mode

maigy

Fri Sep 09, 2005 2:21 pm

#11

If you think the price on things seems high, it has nothing to do with ebay credits, is has to do with the fact credits are so incredibly easy to get. I started a new toon on Lowca a few weeks after teh CO came out I play him casually about 1-3 times a week... I have 8 million credits without trying very hard. My main characters do have obscene amounts of money, but I wokr hard for that, much harder than I workde for the 8 million I got from killing krayts essentially.

Offer all auction winnings to one of my vendors at my store.
Maigrey Master Weaponsmith, Master Droid Engineer, Master Merchant

Zayra Master Pistoleer, Master Smuggler, CM 4000

Maigrey's Weapons Coronet(radiant) WP -251, -5676

sciguyCO

Fri Sep 09, 2005 2:44 pm

#12

Dazzydoodle wrote:

Ebay credits diving up prices? What a load of Bantha sh!t.

I've won a couple auctions for expensive stuff. Which is to say, I outbid the other guys.

All my credits I earned in game (crafting, runnign a good business, loot items, space, mission, but no ebay)

In the bidding process, every time I outbid someone, I helped to drive up the costs, again, WITHOUT EBAY CREDITS!

To be fair, Dazzy, for that claim to be bulletproof you'd have to be 100% sure that every credit you ever earned and spent has never passed through ebay (or any of the other credit sellers).An argument could be made that if your customers (either at your crafting business or loot sales) bought ebay credits, they were more likely to spend those credits (or spend more often) at your shop, which increases your bank account. Your larger bank account then makes you more willing to spend more money on auctions. Spending 5 million credits on a given item is an easier decision when you have 25 million than when you have 5.5.

I think credit sellers, in and of themselves, don't do much (if anything) to raise prices. It's only shifting credits around between players: player A is 1 million credits richer in-game and (say) $50 poorer in real life and player B is 1 million credits poorer in-game and $50 richer in real life. However, the existence of credit sales makes it desirable and profitablefor people (or organizations like those farmer companies) to do nothing but grind missions for in-game credits, which increases the money supply within the game. Increased money supplyleads toincreased prices.

I suspect that if we could track prices of items vs. total credit supply that the "price index" would be fairly flat. The "hump" that new players have to get over (earning credits to get the equipment to earn more credits to get better equipment...) may be moving, but I don't think it's yet at the point where it's insurmountable.

Kriles Ch'artoff , Chilastra server
Master Chef (retired)
Currently doing....stuff

Pawlin

Fri Sep 09, 2005 3:15 pm

#13

sciguyCO wrote:

...I suspect that if we could track prices of items vs. total credit supply that the "price index" would be fairly flat. ...

Theres a thread floating around this forum where someone comapred prices for 'commodity' type items over a long period of time. Like armor, guns, house, food etc, compared both closer to launch versus recent.

There was no large increase in prices and for most items the quality improved.

That would also span across the credit supply jumping all over including a couple distinct phases of duping, baz nitch lairs, group missions, etc.

Pawlin Construction of Kettemoor.
Harvesters and Crafting stations - Triad Coronet Mall just outside Coronet (-177 -5490)
Architect, House, Furniture, Harvester FAQ
Oprolan the Wookiee of Sunrunner. Cheap resources W. Daeric Talus (-639 -3058)
"Worst FF ever *thumbsdown*" -- Pawlin fan club
"I am not going to win Miss Congeniality again this year in the Senate." -- John McCain

** Please refer to Elyssa's answer

Business And Economy Archive

Thread: Can't We Regulate Vendor Sales Based on the Item's Complexity?