Business And Economy Archive

Thread: THERE IS NO INFLATION!!

Milgram
Thu Mar 03, 2005 5:45 pm
#1


Many people see big dollar items flying around on the trade forums and think that inflation has moved everything out of reach of most players. I wish to rebut that idea. To do so, i will be using information from Kettemoor, due to the fact that i am completley ignorant of how things are on other servers. I imagine prices should be fiarly similar, baring some wierdness (such as Tarquanis not having the proper Gem stone to make t21's for the first five or six months).



  • DX2: a couple weeks after launch 70-120 damage, 20k. Now, DX2: 100-150 damage, 15-20k.

  • Stim B's: Launch 200 power, crate of 50 for 50k. Now, 450 power, close to double the uses, 100k per crate.

  • Buffs: Launch: 1500 if you were lucky, 2 hours if you were lucky (same duration if you were lucky)-3k. Now, 2590 for 3 hours 45 mins, almost always consistent duration, 10-12k.

  • Composite armor: a couple months after launch (thats how long it took me to realize how cool armor was) 40-50% resists 200k. Now, 80% kenetic, 70% base, 350-400k.

  • Heavy Harvester or Fusion Generator: Couple months after launch they were 100k-150k each. Now BER 13's are 90-120k.

  • +1 Armor Experimentation at about the 6-8 month mark (when people suddenlty realized they were cool): 2-3 million. Now they are 500k to 1 millionbut often"no thanks, i need +2 or higher."

  • Base Krayt Tissue: 3 months after launch 40k each. Now (despide 10x more HAM) i have a vendor full of base tissues at 10k each. I am probably going to delete them because they take up a lot of room and don't sell.

As you can see, most items have stayed very close to their origional cost. Buffs are the only real exception. However, realisticaly buffs are cheeper due to their presant quality. You are getting twice the buff power, for twice the duration. That is an increase of 4x buff power for about 4x the cost. That is if you consider twice the power and twice the duration to only be four times better. Personaly, I feel that they are at least 8 or 10 times better. If i were to take my doc and go to coronet spaming "buffing 1500 for 2 hours for 3k" my line would be completely empty.


Same way with armor and stims. If I were to open a vendor with 50% composite armor for 200k per suit, i would be laughed out of the game. 200 power stims anyone?


Base goods have maintained their cost despite a huge influx of credits. This is because harvesters have cost the same to maintain since launch. Looted goods, on the other hand, are always going to follow supply and demand. Pearls were once useless because there were no jedi. There was a weaponsmith on our server who had a fancy for them. Any time you looted one, you would drop it on his vendor for 200k and think "what a sucker" as you walked away. Now, there is a HUGE demand, so (we will stick to pre publish 13 since everything went hay-wire after that) a looter can sell a premium pearl or crystal for 4 million because there are a lot of players willing to pay that much. You need to remember that before publish 13, getting pearls and crystals was not a noob job. You had to have a very specialized skill set (go solo an elder with a carbineer and you will see what I mean), and be willing to drive around for a couple hours and find nothing. You had to be willing to get screwed by a kill stealing rifleman or Jedi.


Keep in mind, a pair of sandals costs about 10,000 times less than a car, but I don't see Ford going out of buiseness because everyone starts walking. High end loot is the same way. I could make do with a 60k hammer 150-600 (buy 4, keep the highest damage slice). However, i just paid 12 million for a 400-900 hammer.My12 millionhammer isn't even twice as good as a base hammer. Why is it so valuable? The reason is because 400-900 hammers are so rare that it takes 12 million to coax one out of hiding. If I had told the guy selling it "I paid 60k formy basehammer, and yours isn't even twice as good as mine. I will give you 120k for it," do you think he would have sold it to me? Of course not.


The moral of the story is common goods are stable, and will most likely remain so. Luxury Items are expensive and fadish. They always have been, always will be, and are in the real world. Tickle Me Elmo anyone?

Message Edited by Milgram on 03-17-2005 04:54 PM




I'm With-Stupid n I-am With-I'm
The Jedi Jeweler - Outside Theed at -3990 4485
I go Bakersfield Chimp on Krayts and Nightsisters. You Savvy?
- I support keeping & balancing the current combat system You can too


Bockeroo
Thu Mar 03, 2005 5:50 pm
#2

nice post milgram



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oscabegra
Thu Mar 03, 2005 9:11 pm
#3

Only one thing I can say: Excellent post.






Osca

BlackJango
Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:11 pm
#4






oscabegra wrote:

Only one thing I can say: Excellent post.






I'll second that



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FantasticPlastic
Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:09 am
#5

Maybe I don't know much about economics because I don't see the point of this either

O.



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e6alfa
Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:55 am
#6

I truthfully don't see how people can say the economy is really broke. I've been a medic/doc since I started (3 months from start date), and I have hardly changed my prices on anything. Yes they have gone up a little bit. I don't have 30 billion or anything (even with 2 crafters), so I just don't trade on the forums much. That's where people are getting pissed. I go look for the items I want myself.


Excellent post also!




Feozis - Sith (Elder Jedi)
De'Feo - Smuggler Feobacca - Medic DJ' - Entertainer
Sizoef - Trader (Engineer) Da'Siz Trader (Structures)
dimmu-borgir
Fri Mar 04, 2005 7:46 am
#7

wonderful post... a major problem with the people claiming the economy is broke, is because they are looking at the following items:

jedi required materials: pricegouging, nuff said.
high end loot/weapons: pvpers and their obsession with having the biggest gun/sword/pike/knuckler or the biggest dot, once again, pricegouging
armor: many of the suits you see going for +500k, can be found with practically the same resists from another vendor if you just look for them, if you just go to the biggest name on your server, your probabl oging to pay more
kryat tissues/aa's: trade forum nubage, once again, price gouging

you see, there is no real problem with the economy, if you know where to look.



Dimmu Borgir

I art in thine base

Slaying thine doodz

Pawlin
Fri Mar 04, 2005 1:12 pm
#8

Well said.




Pawlin Construction of Kettemoor.
Harvesters and Crafting stations - Triad Coronet Mall just outside Coronet (-177 -5490)
Architect, House, Furniture, Harvester FAQ

Oprolan the Wookiee of Sunrunner. Cheap resources W. Daeric Talus (-639 -3058)
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Phoenix0op
Sun Mar 06, 2005 8:29 am
#9

I agree with the this post and dimmu's



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Milgram
Tue Mar 08, 2005 4:28 pm
#10





I'm With-Stupid n I-am With-I'm
The Jedi Jeweler - Outside Theed at -3990 4485
I go Bakersfield Chimp on Krayts and Nightsisters. You Savvy?
- I support keeping & balancing the current combat system You can too


glaukos27
Wed Mar 09, 2005 5:17 am
#11


eh, i dont exactly agree that its a reasonable system, for my server at least (scylla)... its a rathercomplicated system; a game with two parts... supply and demand and those few who control the supply dictate the demand for crafted goods so price may stay low but theres an inherent flaw that theres less opportunity to begin and become affluent with crafting... im on the supply side... when i can ihelpcrafters craft better craftsand forintroductory conventional craftersitsa matter of keeping up with artificially maintainedrising expenses compared with steady low costswhich are kept low to push out competition fornormal goods... which isnt exactly inflation, but its a debilitating trait for how the game evolved


of course theres ample opportunity to take advantage ofa situation like this...... loot is an entirely different matter, and one im not particularly concerned with but it bothers me that people can amass great wealth by ripping unsuspecting goobers off; and then theres the whole credit sinkhole system which im guessing funds costs associated with the gcw? our taxes hard at work


the moral is swg has a pretty cool system but the economy is screwed up in swg and in the real world... and i have qualms with both, but i think your ideathat the economy works without significant inflation is only a myth made apparent by stagnant prices

Message Edited by glaukos27 on 03-09-2005 06:20 AM



machiavelli scylla
l
ife is a waste of time and time is a waste of life, so get wasted all of the time and have the time of your life!
Diorchas
Wed Mar 09, 2005 7:26 am
#12


My main character is a resource manager on Kettemoor. Resource prices have stayed relatively static for as long as I've been doing it.


I can see why newer crafters might get frightened out of the market, though. All the "vets" in the crafting biz have the best resources and, let's face it, very few people want something that's not the "best." I try to help that by selling top-quality resources to new crafters for a discount, but I can understand why that might not be enough to encourage an influx of new crafters.


Anyway, to address the root of this post. I don't think the economies are out of whack. By definition player-run economies always have an innate regulatory system: the players themselves. If tomorrow I arbitrarily decided to sell grind Steel at 6cpu no one would buy from me. In the SWG economic model consumers dictate prices, not retailers/wholesalers. Now that the biggest culprit of credit inflation (solo groups) has been addressed, the economy will get even more stable.

Message Edited by Diorchas on 03-09-2005 06:45 AM

Milgram
Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:29 am
#13


It defenently takes some time to get into the high end crafting biz. I have wanted to be a chef for a couple months. I have watched, waited, harvested when i saw a good resource, and saved money for tapes. Ya, it has been kinda expensive to get there. About 20 million to get the resources and +20 in tapes, but that was because i was a little impatient at the end and spent more on +2's than I really needed to. I still need some good meat before i get started, so, i will wait. Or, maybe i will just go to the established chefs and demand that they give me some for free, since they already have some, and i deserve everything i want NOW.


Yes, it is true that a brand new crafter will not be as good as an extablished crafter. Ummm, thats a bad thing? A lot of the crafters who are up and running have been doing so for over a year. Many, many that are in buiseness right now had to enter the market at some point (as in they weren't crafters day 1). They did it, fought for tapes and harvested resources, and the ones who were good at it survived. Why should the brand new crafters of today be given top of the line status in 1 day, when everyone else worked for months and months to get to where they are.


As for supply being able to dictate demand, sorry chief, doesn't work that way. People want their 80% composite armor. More or less armor available is not going to change that. All supply can do is satiate demand. However, things like armor decay, so people always need new armor. You say that scylla works differently than everywhere else. Please put up a comparison of prices similar to mine. I have a feeling they are going to be extremely similar.




I'm With-Stupid n I-am With-I'm
The Jedi Jeweler - Outside Theed at -3990 4485
I go Bakersfield Chimp on Krayts and Nightsisters. You Savvy?
- I support keeping & balancing the current combat system You can too


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