Business And Economy Archive
Thread: My Thoughts On Credits
what about...
The credit dupe scam?
Ebay where you can buy 20 mill for as little as £10?
Exploiters farming faction points and reselling them for extortionary prices?
If these things dont affect the economy then you can slap my a*** and call me charlie
Bottom line....yes they do affect the economy. But exactly how, and on what scale? Black market sales always account for some amount of every economy, but is it even a close minority? I would doubt it, but only people with access to the stratics can answer that, and the developers keep that can shut tight.
Lode_Seepajeka wrote:
what about...
The credit dupe scam?
SWG tracks these credits, many bans have been made, and the sinks will eventually even it out over time. That being said, very rarely has just a very small portion of people with large amounts of credits been able to sway and entire economy.
Ebay where you can buy 20 mill for as little as £10?
Those credits were probably not duped. More likely they were gained legitimately throughplay. Though the sellers may have exploited a badly designed reward system to get the credits, it in no way inflates the economy. The money is created on the server, and on the server it stays. There are usually enough crafters paying maintenence on a large scale to offset the money being printed.
Exploiters farming faction points and reselling them for extortionary prices?
I would hardly using in game systems in the game exploiting. Blame the development team for design flaws. But if they are selling faction for huge prices, doesn't this actually balance out the way they are getting it? Less people will be able to afford the higher prices, so they won't sell as much faction as they would have at a lower price. Seems somewhat balanced to me.
If these things dont affect the economy then you can slap my a*** and call me charlie
I would prefer not to.
I see the highest priced stucc going up (ex self powered harv deeds have risen from 1mill to 2 mill.)
Since vendor search appeared, medium houses are the same, large houses are less, small houses the same.
BUT.... small houses drop from 10-20k to 8-10k months before vendor search.
Most furniture seems the same price.
The average high-end yet non-tissued weapon seems about the same (30-50k) per my (faulty) memory.
Loot kits like rugs have gone all over - but loot drops have changed so much that there's not much comparison. 1.5million per rug to 200k up to 400k.
Food? Once I had to watch my spending, now I have money and don't pay attention. Someone else needs to say.
Armor.... A suit used to cost me ~250k, now I think I pay 150-200, but I found a well priced armor shop. And with all the AS changed, pre-cu composite is not the same as post-cu composite. If fact, post-cu composite probably should have a different name... For that matter, I don't buy composite anymore from al the armor changes. And my post-cu armor lasts longer.
So..... A few areas show no change, a few areas show a price drop, and one specific area (high high end stuff) has gone up... And for the most part, any effect from the credit count is greatly overshadowed by the CU changes, AS/WS changes, loot drop rates, vendor search.... In the end, there's so many variables.....
Message Edited by FarsanTe on 09-07-2005 07:10 AM
Lode_Seepajeka wrote:
what about...
The credit dupe scam?
Ebay where you can buy 20 mill for as little as £10?
Exploiters farming faction points and reselling them for extortionary prices?
If these things dont affect the economy then you can slap my a*** and call me charlie
neg, at least on sunrunner, which has become the credit farming capitol, are en enless amount of cross server cred swaping.
cl0kwerq wrote:
Bottom line....yes they do affect the economy. But exactly how, and on what scale? Black market sales always account for some amount of every economy, but is it even a close minority? I would doubt it, but only people with access to the stratics can answer that, and the developers keep that can shut tight.
Lode_Seepajeka wrote:
what about...
The credit dupe scam?
SWG tracks these credits, many bans have been made, and the sinks will eventually even it out over time. That being said, very rarely has just a very small portion of people with large amounts of credits been able to sway and entire economy.
Ebay where you can buy 20 mill for as little as £10?
Those credits were probably not duped. More likely they were gained legitimately throughplay. Though the sellers may have exploited a badly designed reward system to get the credits, it in no way inflates the economy. The money is created on the server, and on the server it stays. There are usually enough crafters paying maintenence on a large scale to offset the money being printed.
Exploiters farming faction points and reselling them for extortionary prices?
I would hardly using in game systems in the game exploiting. Blame the development team for design flaws. But if they are selling faction for huge prices, doesn't this actually balance out the way they are getting it? Less people will be able to afford the higher prices, so they won't sell as much faction as they would have at a lower price. Seems somewhat balanced to me.
If these things dont affect the economy then you can slap my a*** and call me charlie
I would prefer not to.
mistereous1 wrote:
Lode_Seepajeka wrote:
what about...
The credit dupe scam?
Ebay where you can buy 20 mill for as little as £10?
Exploiters farming faction points and reselling them for extortionary prices?
If these things dont affect the economy then you can slap my a*** and call me charlie
The credit dupe scam was mostly resolved...most of those credits were directly removed from the system. The rest don't have as much effect as you think, they are simply moving credits from one player to another. For example. Player A has 100 million credits Player B farms faction points and sells them to player A for 10 Million credits. No money has entered or left the system. The economic effects are Player A's desire for faction points have created a "job" for player B. Player B is more likely to spend those credits than player A. So lets see where that goes. Player B has worn out his armor farming faction points. So he spends 400k on a suit of armor from Player C. Still no money leaving/entering the system. So you've got Player A wants faction points, Player B gets them, but needs supplies from Player C. You could argue that those millionaires actually stop the economy from growing because people aren't running missions bringing in new money.
You forgot that player C who made the armor dropped 100k in factory and harvester maintence and other 200k toDfor hides and bones. So, some of the credits left the system, and some got cycled around which will again adventually get used in maintence.
Also, players A, B, and D have homes that they also throw maintence into. There is a lot of money sinks that do take it out slowly, so even the credit duped that didn't get instantly removed will leave, and the millionarires credits will cycle around till it leaves too.
Where a lot of the new credits come from is from the lower end players. Those who are starting out needing items both on the combat side, and the crafter side.
For people who by Ebay credits, they are either have way to much rl money to burn, or they are lazy, or they think you have to have all the best stuff to have fun. My opinion is that its dumb. In the end, you will never have anything physically tangable in life to show what you purchased. Oh, and i can make 20 mill in a day if i really wanted to in the game, and not with a CL80, nor as a full time crafter. I just go to space and do it.
The best thing for the economy in my opinion, is make quests that not anyone can take, but you have to be below a CL level to take. It would make lower end players more important in the game and economy.Which inturn would create a new sense of fun for those whoare not CL80, and don't have thebest gear.Especially, some type of quest for crafters only, to promote more craftersthat cause more money sinks and lower prices. But that is my opinion.
cl0kwerq wrote:
Bottom line....yes they do affect the economy. But exactly how, and on what scale? Black market sales always account for some amount of every economy, but is it even a close minority? I would doubt it, but only people with access to the stratics can answer that, and the developers keep that can shut tight.
Lode_Seepajeka wrote:
what about...
The credit dupe scam?
SWG tracks these credits, many bans have been made, and the sinks will eventually even it out over time. That being said, very rarely has just a very small portion of people with large amounts of credits been able to sway and entire economy.
Ebay where you can buy 20 mill for as little as £10?
Those credits were probably not duped. More likely they were gained legitimately throughplay. Though the sellers may have exploited a badly designed reward system to get the credits, it in no way inflates the economy. The money is created on the server, and on the server it stays. There are usually enough crafters paying maintenence on a large scale to offset the money being printed.
Exploiters farming faction points and reselling them for extortionary prices?
I would hardly using in game systems in the game exploiting. Blame the development team for design flaws. But if they are selling faction for huge prices, doesn't this actually balance out the way they are getting it? Less people will be able to afford the higher prices, so they won't sell as much faction as they would have at a lower price. Seems somewhat balanced to me.
If these things dont affect the economy then you can slap my a*** and call me charlie
I would prefer not to.
I dotn think there is an inflation per say.... I would say its more of a "Econmy Design change that came way too late."
Heres the story for those of you who dont know.
Before the CU, people could get into groups of 20, go to Dantooine, get a 25-27k Janta/Kunga mission, split off into their own solo group, and more or less complete those two missions in under 10 minutes. Then they would head back, and get more.... rinse and repeat. Thats 50k a pop. Some people were able to average about 1 million credits per hour on Dantooine, but that was when for some reason the Devs decided to make them 60k missions.
Now, heres the deal, when people started making so much money, the prices on items sky rocketted. What should have only costed maybe at best 20k was priced anywhere from 100-200k. What should have been priced at under 10k, was anywhere from 15-20k. Not because things were harder to make or do, but simply because thats what people could afford.
This went on for over a year. I would say the richest people in the game today were the Pharmeceutical Crafters back then. There was ONE thing EVERYONE needed to hunt..... BUFFS! It was the ONE thing you HAD to have to play. Without them, you could do nothing. And since that was prime time for Hologrinding, and then later FS grinding.... there were plenty of people going to Dantooine, and everyone needed buffs for that.
Anyhoo, what really threw the economy off were those missions. Thats why Krayt Pearls and all the super duper stuff today are in such unreasonable price ranges, that only a few people would dare buy them. There are people on this server I swear they have in the upper hundreds of millions. Not that its their fault. Had the economy never gotten murfed, they would still be rich. The difference is, its not logical for some people to even think they coul dget the best stuff in the game like ADKs and such. Those items are only availbale to the uber rich, and they just horde them all because they can.
Now, because the income isnt like it was, people can afford to survive okay, and do pretty well. But unless you were around to make the money when the prices Hydrogen Bombed to the stratosphere, you just cant expect to be in the same ball park.
Personally, Im the type of gamer who just wont participate in somethign the game offers if I dont like it or agree its healthy for the game. Which is why I didnt do the Dantooine Money Grind, or the Doctor 20k Buffs, or any of it. And another reason why I refuse to grind out Jedi. Maybe its my loss, but I cant condone things in a game when it allows for faulty equality. Therefore, I dont participate. To this day I say to myself I would have been better off doing the Holo Grind, and making all that money when I could, but if I had it to do over.... I woul dprobably not do it - even knowing what I know now. Not because I feel like itll make a point, but because Im an honest gamer, and I will not allow myself to exploit in a game, whether the system allows it or not.
Col_Osiris wrote:I dotn think there is an inflation per say.... I would say its more of a "Econmy Design change that came way too late."
Heres the story for those of you who dont know.
Before the CU, people could get into groups of 20, go to Dantooine, get a 25-27k Janta/Kunga mission, split off into their own solo group, and more or less complete those two missions in under 10 minutes. Then they would head back, and get more.... rinse and repeat. Thats 50k a pop. Some people were able to average about 1 million credits per hour on Dantooine, but that was when for some reason the Devs decided to make them 60k missions.
Now, heres the deal, when people started making so much money, the prices on items sky rocketted. What should have only costed maybe at best 20k was priced anywhere from 100-200k. What should have been priced at under 10k, was anywhere from 15-20k. Not because things were harder to make or do, but simply because thats what people could afford.
This went on for over a year. I would say the richest people in the game today were the Pharmeceutical Crafters back then. There was ONE thing EVERYONE needed to hunt..... BUFFS! It was the ONE thing you HAD to have to play. Without them, you could do nothing. And since that was prime time for Hologrinding, and then later FS grinding.... there were plenty of people going to Dantooine, and everyone needed buffs for that.
Anyhoo, what really threw the economy off were those missions. Thats why Krayt Pearls and all the super duper stuff today are in such unreasonable price ranges, that only a few people would dare buy them. There are people on this server I swear they have in the upper hundreds of millions. Not that its their fault. Had the economy never gotten murfed, they would still be rich. The difference is, its not logical for some people to even think they coul dget the best stuff in the game like ADKs and such. Those items are only availbale to the uber rich, and they just horde them all because they can.
Now, because the income isnt like it was, people can afford to survive okay, and do pretty well. But unless you were around to make the money when the prices Hydrogen Bombed to the stratosphere, you just cant expect to be in the same ball park.
Personally, Im the type of gamer who just wont participate in somethign the game offers if I dont like it or agree its healthy for the game. Which is why I didnt do the Dantooine Money Grind, or the Doctor 20k Buffs, or any of it. And another reason why I refuse to grind out Jedi. Maybe its my loss, but I cant condone things in a game when it allows for faulty equality. Therefore, I dont participate. To this day I say to myself I would have been better off doing the Holo Grind, and making all that money when I could, but if I had it to do over.... I woul dprobably not do it - even knowing what I know now. Not because I feel like itll make a point, but because Im an honest gamer, and I will not allow myself to exploit in a game, whether the system allows it or not.
Uh no, sologroups did not throw the economy all by themselves. Before sologroups, there were group rancor missions. Before rancor missions were group kunga missions. Before kunga missions, there were baz nitch missions and near player city mission exploits.
e3ApeXX wrote:
cl0kwerq wrote:
Bottom line....yes they do affect the economy. But exactly how, and on what scale? Black market sales always account for some amount of every economy, but is it even a close minority? I would doubt it, but only people with access to the stratics can answer that, and the developers keep that can shut tight.
Lode_Seepajeka wrote:
what about...
The credit dupe scam?
SWG tracks these credits, many bans have been made, and the sinks will eventually even it out over time. That being said, very rarely has just a very small portion of people with large amounts of credits been able to sway and entire economy.
Ebay where you can buy 20 mill for as little as £10?
Those credits were probably not duped. More likely they were gained legitimately throughplay. Though the sellers may have exploited a badly designed reward system to get the credits, it in no way inflates the economy. The money is created on the server, and on the server it stays. There are usually enough crafters paying maintenence on a large scale to offset the money being printed.
Exploiters farming faction points and reselling them for extortionary prices?
I would hardly using in game systems in the game exploiting. Blame the development team for design flaws. But if they are selling faction for huge prices, doesn't this actually balance out the way they are getting it? Less people will be able to afford the higher prices, so they won't sell as much faction as they would have at a lower price. Seems somewhat balanced to me.
If these things dont affect the economy then you can slap my a*** and call me charlie
I would prefer not to.
I sorry but I can tell you never took economics in school. When someone purchases 20m worth of credits using out of game cash, it is like he is all of a sudden "finding" 20m credits buried in the ground. Now if 10 or 20 or 30 people do that, all of these credits that never flowed through the economy (were horded by AFK toons), are now spread among everyone. When everyone has more money, inflation starts to rear its ugly head.
The SWG economy does not quite work like real life. Inflationary pressures which rely greatly on the currency's bond yield compared to the yield vs other countries doesn't exist in the same way in SWG. Prices can go up and down in SWG. The relative worth of a credit hasn't changed.