Business And Economy Archive
Thread: Cross Server lot trading
Phaelyn wrote:
An Exploit is undertaking to reproduce a bug that inherently is impossible within the game's mechanics. Double slicing was an exploit - Lot trades at BEST are a work around *suggested* rules. It doesn't break the game's mechanics one iota.
an easy way to get it to stop though would be to make it so only the owner could put maintenance and/or power in whatever's being traded. idk about you but if I had to log in every week and arrange times to get money/power from whomever i was trading with i definately wouldn't go to the hassle. if you have an alt its not as bad if you have good self organizational skills.
GrafvonSoden wrote:
Dyrty,
The problem is people that are doing this are circumventing game mechanics to get an advantage over those that play "By the Rules".
First off, let's look at "By the Rules". Circumventing? Hardly. ANYONE can do lot trades - they just choose not to. Just because you do not wish to use a legitimate process does NOT mean that it's still not legitimate. After all, the same process can be done on the same server - I just "buy" the lots of characters that are full combat, and don't keep a house or use their lots in any way. By "buying/renting" their lots - Am I circumventing game mechanics? No - because I have paid for goods, in this case, their lots. Trading is the same thing - I am buying THEIR lots on my server, and they are doing the same in return on theirs.
In this game, everyone has to make a decisions, whether its what combat skills to use skill points on, or how many lots touse for houses, harvesters, guild hall, or whatever. Maybe a better concept should be put in place. For crafting professions, put in more lots for masters etc.
I see no problem with trading of lots cross servers. However, I *do* see an issue with people doing it just for credits to sell on Ebay. Instead of asking to have corss server trades be eliminated - Why not have SOE go after Ebay sellers more stringently? That way, the only people who will be doing lot trades will be those who actually NEED the lots - those such as Architects and Shipwrights whose resource use is astronomical.
The point I'm makeing is not whether more lots are needed, but fairness to those that don't circumvent the rules. Everyone should be held to the same standard. And if that can't be done without cross server trading, then something is woefully wrong.
I appreciate, and respect your opinion on this. I however see it very differently. I think that if something is possible, as long as it's not an outright exploit, or taking advantage of a Bug - It can and will be done.
thanks
if it was intended for players to be able to place 40 harvs .. don't you think each character would have that many lots available to him/her ?
servers are supposed to have their own, independant economies.. there's a reason when you transfer a character from server A to server B, that his posessions and lots etc are not taken with him.
saying that just because some players choose not to do it, means that it is not an 'exploit' or work-around to the 'rules' doesn't jive.
that's like saying if your neighbor steals your snow-shovel, and you don't steal it back, it's not really theft.. he's just borrowing it indefinately without your permission =)
Personally I think it is something that should be cracked down upon - once a player is established with these lot trades (and lets be honest, there are some HUGE lot trades going on, to the tune of 40+ lots per person).. it's a little hard for the average person to compete with that is it not?
This means that a player with 4 accounts can get *80* lots on 1 server.. I'll let you do the math on that one as far as how it unbalances the economy.
personally, I'm not a crafter, so I don't have any vested interest in it either way, but in fairness, player A should have the same opportunities as player B. Which, unless player B wants to buy 3 more accounts like player A, is not possible.
Not only would I come down hard on the cross server trading, I would find some way to limit the lots/harvesters to the actual owner of the lots.
IE: Player A with his 4 characters, each character can run his 10 lots however he pleases, but he should not be able to combine them.
There is no way to easily enforce limitations on this, other than to restrict the gathering/maintenance to only the lot owner.. And I realize my opinion would not be very popular, and that a lot of the people who do have these insane harvester fields would have hissy fits if it were to ever be implimented... but the economy is broken, and sometimes toes have to be stepped on to fix problems.
if it was intended for players to be able to place 40 harvs .. don't you think each character would have that many lots available to him/her ?
servers are supposed to have their own, independant economies.. there's a reason when you transfer a character from server A to server B, that his posessions and lots etc are not taken with him.
saying that just because some players choose not to do it, means that it is not an 'exploit' or work-around to the 'rules' doesn't jive.
that's like saying if your neighbor steals your snow-shovel, and you don't steal it back, it's not really theft.. he's just borrowing it indefinately without your permission =)
Personally I think it is something that should be cracked down upon - once a player is established with these lot trades (and lets be honest, there are some HUGE lot trades going on, to the tune of 40+ lots per person).. it's a little hard for the average person to compete with that is it not?
This means that a player with 4 accounts can get *80* lots on 1 server.. I'll let you do the math on that one as far as how it unbalances the economy.
personally, I'm not a crafter, so I don't have any vested interest in it either way, but in fairness, player A should have the same opportunities as player B. Which, unless player B wants to buy 3 more accounts like player A, is not possible.
Not only would I come down hard on the cross server trading, I would find some way to limit the lots/harvesters to the actual owner of the lots.
IE: Player A with his 4 characters, each character can run his 10 lots however he pleases, but he should not be able to combine them.
There is no way to easily enforce limitations on this, other than to restrict the gathering/maintenance to only the lot owner.. And I realize my opinion would not be very popular, and that a lot of the people who do have these insane harvester fields would have hissy fits if it were to ever be implimented... but the economy is broken, and sometimes toes have to be stepped on to fix problems.
You need to decide if your against lot swaps, mulitpul accounts, or the game as a whole man and by the way im a non-swaper/non-afk macroer but i do own 3 accounts. I can tell you personaly, manageing all my stuff with out the ability to give my other toons administration would be a nightmare. You have no idea what you are suggesting
sknomad wrote:
phael'yn
if it was intended for players to be able to place 40 harvs .. don't you think each character would have that many lots available to him/her ?
Not at all - Again, one person can "buy" lots on the server itself, even if the character being bought from has to do some of the work IE; placing Maintenance and power, I would STILL have the benefits from the 40 lots. This too is a Work Around, in your words - and therefore is it also illegal in the rules of the game?
servers are supposed to have their own, independant economies.. there's a reason when you transfer a character from server A to server B, that his posessions and lots etc are not taken with him.
Yes - but the TRUE reason isn't because of in game economies - it's due to real world coding. If there was an easy way for a character to be transferred with everything they own, I guarantee you SOE would implement it.
saying that just because some players choose not to do it, means that it is not an 'exploit' or work-around to the 'rules' doesn't jive.
that's like saying if your neighbor steals your snow-shovel, and you don't steal it back, it's not really theft.. he's just borrowing it indefinately without your permission =)
Not quite the same at all - I am saying that a lot is a lot is a lot, whether it is from someone who actively plays on this server or not.
Personally I think it is something that should be cracked down upon - once a player is established with these lot trades (and lets be honest, there are some HUGE lot trades going on, to the tune of 40+ lots per person).. it's a little hard for the average person to compete with that is it not?
This means that a player with 4 accounts can get *80* lots on 1 server.. I'll let you do the math on that one as far as how it unbalances the economy.
Now, you have finally reached what the REAL problem is - Multiple accounts. THIS is what shouldn't be allowed. I'll say the same to you - do the math on why SOE allows multiple money making accounts. However, can you please give me an instance where someone with 80 lots unbalances an economy? MY math shows that someone with 10 lots can mine at exactly the same extraction rate and cost as the person with 80. The difference IS that the player with 80 lots can UNDERSELL the player with only 10, and still make a profit. For example, Player A with 10 lots sells 100k of a resource at 3cpu. It cost him .6cpu, so he makes 2.4cpu in profit through his efforts. Player B with 80 however pays the SAME .6cpu to mine the resource, and sells 100k of it at 2cpu, for only a 1.4 profit. He makes more through the sheer amount of goods he was able to mine. By selling the resource at a lower cost, many more crafters will be able to afford the resources to make more goods, which they in turn will be able to sell at a lower cpu, and still make profit. More lots doesn't make the economy inflate - it assists the economy in lowering overall costs. You argue on the basis that it is unfair to the "little guy", which is a misnomer.
personally, I'm not a crafter, so I don't have any vested interest in it either way, but in fairness, player A should have the same opportunities as player B. Which, unless player B wants to buy 3 more accounts like player A, is not possible.
See, you see the problem as I say - Mulitple accounts is the problem, not lot trades. Player A can afford and owns 4 characters - Player B is not a rich man in real life, and cannot afford 3 additional accounts, making it not FAIR to him, because he can't compete. So right there, Player A and B can NEVER have the same opportunities. Unless he was to trade lots cross servers....
Not only would I come down hard on the cross server trading, I would find some way to limit the lots/harvesters to the actual owner of the lots.
IE: Player A with his 4 characters, each character can run his 10 lots however he pleases, but he should not be able to combine them.
How does that stop harvest farming? it doesn't at all. It only adds one additional step to the process.
There is no way to easily enforce limitations on this, other than to restrict the gathering/maintenance to only the lot owner.. And I realize my opinion would not be very popular, and that a lot of the people who do have these insane harvester fields would have hissy fits if it were to ever be implimented... but the economy is broken, and sometimes toes have to be stepped on to fix problems.
The economy isn't broken due to harvesting farms. It's broken due to a LOT of different attributes. The ONLY argument that holds any solid ground in regards to harvesting fields is this: It limits the playing space for active characters.
Let me add that I find this discussion very stimulating, and I /salute you for your thought out and non-hostile responses.
Message Edited by Phaelyn on 01-18-2005 06:14 PM
Flagoo wrote:
One solution I can see is to make lots attached to the account rather than the character. This means that every account can place, say, 100 harvs either on one server or spread over every server they have a character on.
Problem with this though is it gives too much of an advantage to players with mules and alt accounts.
Maybe the lots can be allocated by skill level. That means a novice of "x" profession can get "y" number of lots, and a master of "x" profession can get more lots.
Another option is server consolidation or a reduction in the number of characters a player can create on one account.