Brawler Archive
Thread: POTENTIAL FIX FOR PVP BRAWLER VS RANGED
Let's make this quick: as it stands, a ranged fighter can just run away from a brawler while shooting backwards, right? And the brawler can't do anything except run after them, keep taking damage, and hoping that their opponent runs into a wall or something...
Here's an idea that could potentially solve all the brawler vs ranged PvP problems: add a skill for brawlers for some added running speed!! A simple variation ofBurst Run could be added to the brawler skill tree (Isuggest Master Brawler to preventmarksmen from exploiting it) and it would lastmaybe 10 or 15 seconds instead of 60 like Burst Run. It would be a normal skill like any of the other brawler combat skills, in that it takes HAM costs and you can perform it during battle as often as you wish. But there's the caveat (to prevent traveling exploits), it can only be used during battle.
Of course, a lot of playing around with this idea will be necessary to fine-tune it, but this is just a starting point.
What do you think?
-Paul
I think that a skill added to master brawler would be good. Someone suggested some type of jump kick on one of the other forums.A special move that you can do while running, maybe a knockdown that doesn't require you to stop and then swing/kick etc. This isn't going to fix the problem entirely but a scrap off the table would be awesome right now.
Ok I'm going to start off with some hard truths so please read the whole post before flaming
.
Ranged fighters in SWG have an advantage over Melee fighters. That is fundamental. It wasdecision made about thebasic rules and game dynamic right at the beginning of development. It's a choice that I whole heartedly agree with.
After playing games like EQ where ranged fighters suffered under ridiculous penalties it's nice to have a game were ranged players have a realisticadvantage for a change. There is no basis in the real world or the Star Wars extended universe for any melee fighter except for a Jedi with a lightsaber to have an advantage over a skilled person with a blaster/gun.
That said I would have liked ranged weapons in the game to have at least had the limitation of requiring ammunition but the Dev's went with infinite repeaters, another fundamental decision about game dynamic's that we have to live with.
That said things aren't completely hopeless for the melee fighter. You just have to use a little common sense and use the environment to help protect yourself. Don't just blindly chase after a shooter hoping to get close enough to get a hit in. Run away from him and force him to face you on your terms. If you're in a town run down an alley or into a building so that he has to follow you to where you can ambush him. Make him think you're a coward and an easy kill so he won't pay as much attention to his radar as he should.
If you're out in open fields use tree's, lairs, gambling camps and buildings to block his fire. Don't rely on hills though. It is ridiculously easy to fire through solid dirt in this game. Seriously, I'm hitting critter's with shots that are kicking up dirt as I fire. And yet a bramble thicket will stop the shot
. What a world.
Now obviously this advice isn't going to make hard core melee players happy. But if you want to be melee in this game you're going to have to start thinking of yourself less as a paladin or barbarian and more as a ninja.
"Democracy is the owrst form of government... until you consider the alternatives."
Winston Churchill.
Gonna hate to see the posts when ranged attacks can happen from mounts and vehicles, while melee need to dismount to attack.
Osskizz
Novice TK / Novice Doctor
Lyv wrote:
I still like the idea that we don't get any special bonus to run but the rifleman get a penalty to run while shooting. I don't know about you but I think it would be difficult to flat out run while twisting backwards to look through a scope and shoot a moving target. So don't give us a break just break them. OK cry nerf now rifleman !!! I can hear it now I can't get away from that KIMA now... (gag me with a carbine)
That's a good idea as well. I'd like to see a 25% speed DECREASE for marksmen shooting while running and a 25% speed INCREASE for brawlers in some sort of fashion. That would even things up a bit.
At the VERY LEAST though, marksmen should have their Accuracy lowered A LOT more if they're shooting and running away simultaneously.
AgallionKonrad wrote:
ok i dont understand this, I dont know about you but I CAN PUNCH AND RUN AT THE SAME TIME,...there ya go problem solved
Sigh... did you even READ this thread? Like SeraphValcyn, you completely ignored what I said. Now, since you decided to use caps, I think I will too:
YOU CAN'T PUNCH SOMETHING 60 METERS AWAY!!!
Osskizz wrote:
Gonna hate to see the posts when ranged attacks can happen from mounts and vehicles, while melee need to dismount to attack.
Hahah yeah right. They BETTER not do that. Think about it: ever heard of KNIGHTS? You know, the MIDDLE AGES? Those guys on horses armed with swords?? Believe it or not, they attacked with their swords WITHOUT getting off!! Yeah I know! Hard to believe, huh?!....... (/sarcasm off)
-Paul
We would then be able to completely control any PvP fight. A ranged character would have no chance to escape combat, and you could decide to leave combat whenever you wanted, taking a few shots as you got out of range.
This change would force ranged folks to use burstrun in every combat with melee people, or be at the mercy of the faster player.
How about this instead:
As in real life, running and firing a gun is pretty much going to guarantee a miss. Moving while shooting should be very, very inaccurate.
If they want to try and kite us, then they should get very few shots in, making it a very rare tactic. The advantage for them is in being able to do damage at a distance before you close with them, not in being able to fire over the shoulder and kill you while running over terrain.
Secondly, brawlers should do more damage than ranged characters. We can't attack safely from a distance, but once on top of someone, the damage should flow quickly. Especially since we must be open to attack when we're in combat.
All melee combat should be short and brutal, we take and dish out damage quickly. Ranged combat should be about slower damage, but with the added safety of ranged attacks.
Yes, decreased accuracy while running and shooting simultaneously would be good.
Decreased accuracy and decreased firing speed would be ideal.
But of course, I can already hear thenerf criesstarting...
-P
SeraphValcyn wrote:
I think that a skill added to master brawler would be good. Someone suggested some type of jump kick on one of the other forums. A special move that you can do while running, maybe a knockdown that doesn't require you to stop and then swing/kick etc. This isn't going to fix the problem entirely but a scrap off the table would be awesome right now.
You're missing the point entirely. That jump kick would be completely useless when you're 30m from a marksman that's shooting you while running in the opposite direction.
Veers6969 wrote:
I think that the best and probably easiest solution would be instead of a seperate skill to have a bonus to the speed gained from sprinting. Not something that much faster just enough to catch someone after a few moments. If a ranged character gets the drop on you though you should be picked apart. Just as if a ranged walks up to a brawler the ranged fighter should be dead. I think they have a little tweaking to do on both melee and ranged fighters.
Sprinting? Are you talking about Burst Run? Making a brawler have a faster Burst Run would be useless because A) you can only use it about once every ten minutes and B) it only lasts for 60 seconds. What if you need to fight multiple players, one right after the other? After you catch up to the first one and kill him, the Burst Run may have worn off, and then you're screwed - like in the scenario I described earlier.
That's especially why I said it needs to be a new skill; one that you can use as many times as you wish while in battle. So when you're done fighting one person, you can use it again to catch up to your next target.
Silverjohn wrote:
Ranged fighters in SWG have an advantage over Melee fighters. That is fundamental. It was decision made about the basic rules and game dynamic right at the beginning of development. It's a choice that I whole heartedly agree with.
After playing games like EQ where ranged fighters suffered under ridiculous penalties it's nice to have a game were ranged players have a realistic advantage for a change. There is no basis in the real world or the Star Wars extended universe for any melee fighter except for a Jedi with a lightsaber to have an advantage over a skilled person with a blaster/gun.
Wow, that's GREAT! So you're suggesting that we just *ACCEPT* that our profession is screwed in PvP?? Awesome!!
Now, about running around objects to block ranged weapons, as it stands you can shoot through a lot of things that you shouldn't be able to............... I'll just leave it at that......
Anyway, so far no one has commented on my suggested fix. Instead of just ignoring my idea and adding your own ideas to solve the problem or telling us brawlers that we're just screwed, can I get a few comments on my suggestion?? At least tell me why it would or wouldn't work.
Thanks,
-Paul
Sprinting? Are you talking about Burst Run? Making a brawler have a faster Burst Run would be useless because A) you can only use it about once every ten minutes and B) it only lasts for 60 seconds. What if you need to fight multiple players, one right after the other? After you catch up to the first one and kill him, the Burst Run may have worn off, and then you're screwed - like in the scenario I described earlier.
That's especially why I said it needs to be a new skill; one that you can use as many times as you wish while in battle. So when you're done fighting one person, you can use it again to catch up to your next target.
^ This is great. Yes when I said sprinting I was referring to Burst Run... Was this that hard to figure out that you had to start your reply with 2 questions concerning this?... (I'm going to drop this instead of getting into why this stupid ******* skill is called burst run when there is already a term for this). You are the one missing the point.. I don't think we should cry if multiple ranged attackers get the jump on us. The point of discussions like this is so we are on par with ranged attackers. If multiple brawlers get within range of a ranged attacker I certainly don't want them to have any skills that will allow them to chew through us.
If I wanted to be that uber I would have chosen something like a ranged/CH combo...
Veers6969 wrote:
^ This is great. Yes when I said sprinting I was referring to Burst Run... Was this that hard to figure out that you had to start your reply with 2 questions concerning this?... (I'm going to drop this instead of getting into why this stupid ******* skill is called burst run when there is already a term for this). You are the one missing the point.. I don't think we should cry if multiple ranged attackers get the jump on us. The point of discussions like this is so we are on par with ranged attackers. If multiple brawlers get within range of a ranged attacker I certainly don't want them to have any skills that will allow them to chew through us.
If I wanted to be that uber I would have chosen something like a ranged/CH combo...
Usually people call skills by their, get this, SKILL NAME! Woah, what a good idea!............
I'm not crying about the whole situation. I'm just asking for things to be BALANCED. Another idea you may not have heard of......
"If multiple brawlers get within range of a ranged attacker I certainly don't want them to have any skills that will allow them to chew through us."
GEEEE, I wonder what profession YOU are... Can anyone say "BIAS"??...
As it is now, ranged attackers can just run away shooting backwards and brawlers are COMPLETELY screwed because they can't catch up since everyone runs at the same speed. Again, all I'm asking for is for the professions to be BALANCED during PvP.
Why is that so much to ask??
-Paul