Brawler Archive
Thread: hey Spaz have we been heard?
I'm just wondering if you heard the outcry from the certification of vibro knucklers.
I don't think any reasonable person would say that cerifing them is a bad thing, but not at TKA novice, expert unarmed seems to be more of an appropriate place for them.
Either that or a slew of new knucklers or really any kind of unarmed weapon, or even apure skillbump that can putus on par with our armed counter parts NEEDS to happen with the next round of updates to the brawler class.
As I've played all 3 marksman tree, I know that they do much more damage at the expert level than we do, with far fewer issues with ham costs, terrain clipping and kiting.
The unarmed tree needs some loving weather it's weapons, or skill mods or whatever, make our voice heard.
that was the thrust of my point.
the problem existed before they certified the VK's, but now it is blatant and needs prompt attention.
We have been heard about our top 5 list yes. We have not really been given more then a brief responce at the moment on some of the resolutions however. What I expect will happen is this. HAM cost will be lowered, and we will see some improvement in their function, and a decrease in some failure rates. The hitting while moving and accuracy issue, will be a long while before it's resolved. That is a server/client issue/bug. The Line of sight issue will also be hard to fix. Then lastly, I expect our toughness to be upped a bit, and maybe, maybe some increase in dodge/parry/block, but that I doubt.
I think that what ever changes they make will be helpful and make folks happy, and the harder issues when they do get fixed, will be very welcome.
On the VK cert, that was a good move. Every joe that needs to climb up the unarmed branch to be a commando or smuggler had it way to easy. Ya, it makes it harder for people who want to continue unarmed into TKA, but once you do gain the cert, it will have been very worth the wait.
We have been heard about our top 5 list yes. We have not really been given more then a brief responce at the moment on some of the resolutions however. What I expect will happen is this. HAM cost will be lowered, and we will see some improvement in their function, and a decrease in some failure rates. The hitting while moving and accuracy issue, will be a long while before it's resolved. That is a server/client issue/bug. The Line of sight issue will also be hard to fix. Then lastly, I expect our toughness to be upped a bit, and maybe, maybe some increase in dodge/parry/block, but that I doubt.
I think that what ever changes they make will be helpful and make folks happy, and the harder issues when they do get fixed, will be very welcome.
On the VK cert, that was a good move. Every joe that needs to climb up the unarmed branch to be a commando or smuggler had it way to easy. Ya, it makes it harder for people who want to continue unarmed into TKA, but once you do gain the cert, it will have been very worth the wait.
600F4i wrote:
I think putting a cert on VK's was a good thing.What they need to address is unarmed.We hit to slow and our damage is to low.We also need dodge and parry and to be able to hit while running.If they fix those things we wouldn't need VK's at all.
I don't mind the cert. I do mind moving it completely off the UA tree to TKA. There should have been compensation first or move itto Expert UA. I've gotten 500 exp for UA in the several days sense the move. That's fine to me for Intermeadiate and Advanced. I get that, no problem. But now I have 35k to go for Master UA. ~100 days to go...
The trolls said I should get some other prof then Rifleman to compensate for the 2.5 damage problem, 'cause there should be no "one shot one kill" in SW (except for Pistoleers, it would seem). When I do, they pull this bone-head idea. Thanks a lot...
Spaz_Hairlip wrote:
On the VK cert, that was a good move. Every joe that needs to climb up the unarmed branch to be a commando or smuggler had it way to easy. Ya, it makes it harder for people who want to continue unarmed into TKA, but once you do gain the cert, it will have been very worth the wait.
Spaz you have to be kidding me.
VK's may have been overpowered as a newbie weapon, but by the time you are staring at 70k of unarmed XP 80points of damage a hit is unexceptable.
We need to either have our damage signifigantly upped or have something we can use to up our damage.While beserk, and unarmed hithelp, but a marksman needs nothing to constantly shoot for around 200 damage at fire rate of around 2-3 with a decent scout blaster.
If we don't need a signifgant boost, marksman need a huge nerf.
BTW,
I've spent far more time working on my marksman skills as I'm truely looking to go to bounty hunter, I'm looking at smuggler as a fun side profession, so I started working up unarmed. So I know full well how easy it is to get marksman XP, go prone at 60m fire off your target Ham shot, and generally if the MOB isn't dead by the time they charge you they will be shortly after, at a gain of 300xp+ a MOB. Unarmed doesn't hold a candle to that. Saying I would feel rewarded after 200K unarmed XP by finially getting to hit for more than 150points of damage is an insult.
I have to totally agree with Scotti here. To use a vibrating knuckle as a novice brawler is overpowering. To use them as a master brawler is only fair, ESPECIALLY when an EXPERT marksman (one less than a master marksman) can do 1500+ dammage shots without taking a single point of dammage. (that's roughly 16 times as much dammage as Icurrently average with my knuckles--which is 90 dammage)
The fact remains that master brawlers (like myself) are GIMPED by a single suggestion. We do less dammage than ranged. We take more dammage than ranged. We get WAAAY LESS experience than ranged-when in a hunting party.In nearly every conceiveable way we are inferior to ranged! Especialyin a higher level hunting party due to warning shot.
I was in a huntingparty of 5 the other night killing mountain squill. Everybody spammed warning shots. One of the people in the group was a brawler like myself. We both got incapicated very quickly on the first squill. He continued to brawl during the next 3 squill and got incapped 2 times and died one time. I on the other hand, switched to my laser rifle (as I am an expert marksman) and got over 3300 of experience off of 1 squill. He got nearly 375 experience. He quickly switched to his scout pistol? and got over 1000 experience on the next squill. (the exact amout is uncertain due to me sleeping since then but I know it was over 1000)
My point is---there is ABSOLUTELY NO BALANCE between melee classes and ranged. Just because a commando "needs a challenge" in leveling up, you want to gimp all the brawlers out there, spaz?
I firmly believe that the certification should have been implemented at expert to master brawler, not tera kasi novice.The roadfrom master brawler to TKA novice is LONG.WE WERE GIMPED by an extra "concern" in our top 5 (6) concerns list.
Screens are available if developers or unbelievers need "proof".
I'm going for Smuggler myself, and that 70k of unarmed is looking bad. I'm half way there, but in about 2 hours tonight, I was able to go from around 32k to about 35k trying to kill diseased bocatts with unarmed. These work pretty well, in fact. However, in the same 2 hour time span, my pistol xp miraculously increased from 7700 to around 9900, somehow. The point is, I have no idea how I got the pistol xp so fast because I was making a concious effort to only use brawler, while using pistol only to shoot the lair to get more spawns.
In my opinion, VK certification should be given to an Expert brawler. The road to Expert should take a while, and even WITH the VK's, 70k will take a decent amount of time (still probably more than pistol, rifle, etc.). The 125k without VK's is just a joke. It's insanity (and will drive you **edit** close to it). I know the pain of the 70k, and I feel very bad for the people who have to endure 125k...
Now, the solution, it seems, would be to give the VK cert to Expert brawler, to help out in the long xp struggle ahead. And one more thing: just because I (and many others) say that Brawlers have nothing on Marksmen, and that marksmen are more powerful, being able to hit for 1000+ damage with a laser rifle, while at the same level, a brawler can hit for maybe 200 with a special attack if lucky, does NOT mean that Marksman should be nerfed and brought down to the Brawler's level! I am a Marksman, and I'm perfectly happy with it. It's rewarding once you get to the upper levels. Unarmed is not. This doesn't mean that Marksman should be brought DOWN, but that Unarmed should be brought UP, at least a decent amount. I'm not saying that we should be able to hit for 1000 damage (though it would be nice, but that's what TKA is for), but maybe 500 every once in a while with a special attack would be great. It's nice to be able to upgrade your weapon to make the fight more enjoyable. Marksmen (like myself) know this. New skills not working out for you? Get a nice laser rifle, it'll help tons. For unarmed players, VK's were the only such upgrade possible, and this ability was stolen when the cert was bumped up to Novice TKA.
It seems that Sony's attitude about any complaints of balance in this game is to bring the "better" thing down instead of raising up the "crappy" one...and I hope that doesn't happen here. If you think pistols are so much better than unarmed, you're probably right. So stop whining, and go pick up the marksman class for 100 credits and a nice DH17 pistol for 5k once you get the cert for it. You CAN have the best of both worlds. Marksman doesn't need a nerf; Brawler needs a boost.
-Malloc, Brawler/Marksman/Medic/Scout on Eclipse
You people don't know insanity. I had to do all that without VK becaues they werent even available yet when I got that far. You know how hard that was? I died and died and died almost to the point I wanted to cry. It was horrible and I totally feel for you, but I really pushed through it. And trust me I know the balance with melee and ranged is nonsense. How do I know this? I was on Endor before that whole xp nerf there and whatnot (fighting pubams, in the first few days that SWG was released) and the brawlers were getting crap xp in comparison to the ranged guys. I totally know how all this is, and yeah, its going to be really hard, and if its worth it as a TKA? That's debatable. I have Master Brawler so I had a rough time x4. And I'd say no elite melee profession is worth it without MB Supplementing it. And frankly, I think thats balance in of it itself. I mean they are working ways to make TK and such somewhat more viable than they currently are despite the KD nerf coming up soon. (Supposedly +40 to Unarmed Dmg extra = +138 at master instead of +98 and +148 for Trando TKM) and yes that'll make us strong and we'll be able to level and fight in PVP to some extent. But I think in order to legitmately have this notorious might in PVP as a melee'r, master brawler is what you need to go for in order to do that. It gives you the skills to overcome a lot of marksman related issues. I beat a BHr, pistoleer, and carbineer all in the last two days and took hardly any damage from all 3 of them in the process because of MB + TK. I agree there are a lot of things that need to be looked at to make Brawler trees and elite melee trees at least more individually viable. But dont' try to over do it because with the tools provided by MB you do kind of have somewhat of a balance in place by itself. Want proof?
Try fighting a ranged guy, any class doesnt matter as a MB. A lunge2 will let you close on them, dont bother attacking, use Warcry2, that gives you a 20 second window in which they cant attack. Usually what happens with a ranged guy after a posture down is he will just get up and kite you again and use Suppression Fire to drop your posture so you lose a lot of distance trying to catch up to him and youre basically screwed. The 20 second window allows you to catch up to him again, and lunge2 + dizzy this time (if you have it), and thats all she wrote. Once you get the dizzy applied and the lunge2, its usually over after that, and if its not, Warcry2 all over again. Or you can use Intimidate 2 if you want to be a little less cheesy so they simply will miss a lot more. WC2 is also a good strategy for PVE but its very risky because it misses a lot more often than KD attacks do and takes more HAM also. But hey that 20 second window allows you 1 full berserk (..moot point kinda since berserk sucks now) The +'s to speed/accuracy/defense at MB also give you a lil boost when you hit your novice elite class and help you get the initial xp to the first tier boxes.
Yes I know I digressed a bit from the original topic, but when I start writing I just keep going. Forgive me. Hopefully this is helpful to some anyways..
Bottom line: It's going to be hard, its not really fair at all, and its sad we are paying 15$ for an incomplete game. My best advice to you withou trying to find ways to circumvent all the nonsense? Drop SWG and wait till Space Expansio comes out, its safe to say you can expect a relatively finished game by then to some extent.
--Xavierov
Almost Master Teras Kasi on Starsider
Aspiring Rifleman/Ranger on Eclipse
Yeah, a good medium needs to be learned. Used to be sickeningly overpowered and easy to do, not disgustingly weak and terribly hard to pull off. Now if you will excuse me, i need my chainsaw to help with the open heart surgery... *BrrrrNNN!!!!*****
Nagaram wrote:
Master Unarmed should be a viable skill to compete with all other level IV skills of any starting combat profession. It should be irrelevant whether someone plans on using the skill on the way to TKA, Smuggler, Commando, Master Brawler, or is a Chef who simply wants to have Master Unarmed just by itself. Right now, the only people who will take this skill are those who need it as a prerequisite to some other profession. By itself, the skill is NOT viable.
On the VK cert, that was a good move. Every joe that needs to climb up the unarmed branch to be a commando or smuggler had it way to easy. Ya, it makes it harder for people who want to continue unarmed into TKA, but once you do gain the cert, it will have been very worth the wait.
I strongly disagree with this. Master Unarmed should be a viable skill to compete with all other level IV skills of any starting combat profession. It should be irrelevant whether someone plans on using the skill on the way to TKA, Smuggler, Commando, Master Brawler, or is a Chef who simply wants to have Master Unarmed just by itself. Right now, the only people who will take this skill are those who need it as a prerequisite to some other profession. By itself, the skill is NOT viable.
Personally, I'm TKA now but getting that 125,000 xp needed to get from Master Unarmed to TKA Novice was long, slow and brutal due to the VK nerf. I did not do the damage orget the xp I should have gotten and it wasted a great deal of my time.
I would also remind you that this is the Brawler forum and you are the Brawler correspondent...not the TKA correspondent. Unarmed affects a lot of people because it is aprerequisite to so many professions. You should be the advocate for all of them, not just TKA aspirants.