Brawler Archive

Thread: The Fixes for all MELEE! (plz read)

Zenoge
Sun Oct 05, 2003 5:49 pm
#1

Everyone knows that brawling is the gimp of all combat as of right now. With our out of range issues, no variety of weapons, and commando’s current power, we are currently the last resort for combat. With the exception of TKA, there are a small lot of us who are currently masters in swordsman, fencers and pikeman. When the devs fix the range issues we will be better but still quite unbalanced. I thought of a list of stuff to put together that will even us up and make us more formidable in battle.


Swordsman


Pro – Good Mind hits and Mind Bleeds and deals out very good damage, Has the use of a non-kinetic weapon (Blast)


Cons – Terrible variety of Moves (No stun or blind, and very small chance of dizzying), and gets the least amount of skill mods than any other melee class, No class KD (In this tree).



Solution – Give us more variety and more skill mods and reduce HAM Costs


Offense Line Changes


Make Area Attack 1 ability to blind & Damage area


Make Area Attack 2 ability to stun & Damage area


Make Area Attack 3 Ability to dizzy and Posture Change area (dizzy much greater chance than what it is now though)


Technique Line Changes


Nothing really wrong with this area, swordsman have more toughness than pikeman and fencer but not more than TKA so I’d leave this alone.


Defense Line Changes



Change Two-Hand Sweep to either Knockdown or Area Knockdown


Or An Area attack with some type of Bleed.


Finesse Line Changes


In Expert Finesse give us a mind area bleed, more skill mods or move down the mind hit 2 to it. Overall need do something immediately in the expert finesse tab.


Master Swordsman


This is fine as it is but if anything I would make 2 hand hit 3 Dizzy and blind an opponent and have a much greater chance of success than before.


Special Class Move ( Savage ) – Only Available at Master this mode will make the Swordsman’s Speed (Delay in special moves decrease), Accuracy, and Damage increase by ½. Also Counter-Attack chances double. This lasts for 10 minutes, also this move takes 125 from ham and the swordsman’s defense goes down by 1/4. This is not like berserk or intimidate in terms of the chances of it being applied. Always works 100% of the time unless you are in a stun state. (Right now stun is pretty useless)


Special Class Move ( De-equip ) – Available to Fencers and Swordsman novice this moves makes the opponent unable to use his current weapon for around 5-10 seconds. Can only use once and 15% chance of working at Novice and include skill mods so when at master 85% or higher chance of working. Cost 125 HAM


Pikeman


Pro – Can attack the Action bar for good damage and bleed the action bar


This class deals one of the highest damage. Has the use of a non-kinetic weapon (Electric)


Cons – Terrible accuracy, no variety weapons (Mostly for all melee), Receives less toughness than other melee.


Solution – Give them more accuracy and more toughness than all melee (especially if their speed will be reduced in the upcoming patches) and reduce HAM Costs.


Support Line Changes


Instead of Accuracy +20 in two skill tabs, give them a +15 in all the tabs


Offense Line Changes


Give them +10 to toughness in every other skill tab


Special Class Move ( Defensive ) – Only available at Master this mode will make the Pikeman’s evasiveness, Defense, and Block increase by ½. This lasts for 10 minutes, also this move takes 125 from ham and the Pikeman’s Attack goes down by 1/4. This is not like berserk or intimidate in terms of the chances of it being applied. Always works 100% of the time unless you are in a stun state. (Right now stun is pretty useless)


Special Class Move ( Paralyze ) – Available to Pikeman only this move makes the opponent speed decrease by half and their running speed decrease by half lasts for 3-5 minutes (at master). Can only use once per enemy and cannot apply more if it is already applied. Has 10% chance of working and only lasts for a minute at Novice, and include skill mods so when at master 85% or higher chance of working and lasts longer. Cost 125 HAM.


Fencer


Pro – Good attack Speed, can bleed body, and can target multiple ham bars at once with its attacks. And has the use of a non-kinetic move (Stun), Nice variety of moves (Dizzy, stun, area dizzy, area blind, etc)


Con – No KD, or no basic Posture change other than what all melees get in brawler, not enough evasiveness or dodging. Not fast enough.


Solution – Increase it’s attack speed and give it more dodging and defense bonuses to make up for less damage.


Fencing Stances


Give them +5 instead of +2 to melee and ranged defense in both skill tabs.


Fencing Footwork


Give them +15 to all 4 tabs in speed.


Fencing Technique


Give them +10 to dodge in every other tab instead of +5 in one tab.


Special Class Move ( Parry ) – Only available at Master this mode will make the Fencer Parry moves and return the damage and effects of the move that was going to be dealt to them, to the attacker at half the damage, has to be done before the move and has a chance of not parrying. If not parried they suffer 1/3 more than they would if they had gotten hit. There is a 60% chance of parrying the move. So if the Attack was a 100 stun move and the attack was parried the attacker would suffer the stun and receive 50 damage. If the attack wasn’t parried the fencer would receive 125 damage and still be stunned. This takes 100 from HAM.


Special Class Move ( De-equip ) – Available to Fencers and Swordsman Novice, this moves makes the opponent unable to use his current weapon for around 5-10 seconds. Can only use once every 35 seconds and 15% chance of working at Novice and include skill mods so when at master 85% or higher chance of working. Cost 125 HAM.


Teras Kasi


Pro – Good damage overall, fastest attack speed, can directly attack all pools, can heal poison/bleed and other effects, good toughness, excellent variety of moves and skill mods.


Con – High HAM damage, no variety of weapons.


Solution – Just reduce HAM Costs.


Overall Change


That is what I had in mind for the melee changes, plus, overall Swordsman and Pikeman should have more toughness and deal more damage than the TKA and Fencer, while those 2 shoulddeal lessdamage and have more evasiveness and speed (right now TKA has more of all). So instead of decreasing TKA’s damage, just increase pikeman and swordsman damage, and increase fencers’ speed. The Swordsman and Pikeman range should be changed since they acquire larger/longer weapons. I think this would be a good way to add variety and give us other classes the variety in which we are are lacking.


Range changes:


Pikeman: 9-10m


Swordsman: 8m


Fencer: 6m


Teras Kasi: 5m


I believe if those changes were put into affect this would make melee so much more better and balanced. I’d love to hear what everyone thinks about this please feel free to post. Hopefully if we get enough readers to read this it we could get some of this implemented. This wouldn’t be hard at all to implement just a few variable changes and new moves. Thanks all and stay brawlin.




Ayyub Zenogias

Da Black Ghetto Swordsman in Shinin Armor

"f**k wit me imps and my Titan's Hand Hammer will be all up in yo a$$"
Zenoge
Sun Oct 05, 2003 6:04 pm
#2

Everyone knows that brawling is the gimp of all combat as of right now. With our out of range issues, no variety of weapons, and commando’s current power, we are currently the last resort for combat. With the exception of TKA, there are a small lot of us who are currently masters in swordsman, fencers and pikeman. When the devs fix the range issues we will be better but still quite unbalanced. I thought of a list of stuff to put together that will even us up and make us more formidable in battle.


Swordsman


Pro – Good Mind hits and Mind Bleeds and deals out very good damage, Has the use of a non-kinetic weapon (Blast)


Cons – Terrible variety of Moves (No stun or blind, and very small chance of dizzying), and gets the least amount of skill mods than any other melee class, No class KD (In this tree).



Solution – Give us more variety and more skill mods and reduce HAM Costs


Offense Line Changes


Make Area Attack 1 ability to blind & Damage area


Make Area Attack 2 ability to stun & Damage area


Make Area Attack 3 Ability to dizzy and Posture Change area (dizzy much greater chance than what it is now though)


Technique Line Changes


Nothing really wrong with this area, swordsman have more toughness than pikeman and fencer but not more than TKA so I’d leave this alone.


Defense Line Changes


Change Two-Hand Sweep to either Knockdown or Area Knockdown


Or An Area attack with some type of Bleed.


Finesse Line Changes


In Expert Finesse give us a mind area bleed, more skill mods or move down the mind hit 2 to it. Overall need do something immediately in the expert finesse tab.


Master Swordsman


This is fine as it is but if anything I would make 2 hand hit 3 Dizzy and blind an opponent and have a much greater chance of success than before.


Special Class Move ( Savage ) – Only Available at Master this mode will make the Swordsman’s Speed (Delay in special moves decrease), Accuracy, and Damage increase by ½. Also Counter-Attack chances double. This lasts for 10 minutes, also this move takes 125 from ham and the swordsman’s defense goes down by 1/4. This is not like berserk or intimidate in terms of the chances of it being applied. Always works 100% of the time unless you are in a stun state. (Right now stun is pretty useless)


Special Class Move ( De-equip ) – Available to Fencers and Swordsman novice this moves makes the opponent unable to use his current weapon for around 5-10 seconds. Can only use once and 15% chance of working at Novice and include skill mods so when at master 85% or higher chance of working. Cost 125 HAM


Pikeman


Pro – Can attack the Action bar for good damage and bleed the action bar


This class deals one of the highest damage. Has the use of a non-kinetic weapon (Electric)


Cons – Terrible accuracy, no variety weapons (Mostly for all melee), Receives less toughness than other melee.


Solution – Give them more accuracy and more toughness than all melee (especially if their speed will be reduced in the upcoming patches) and reduce HAM Costs.


Support Line Changes


Instead of Accuracy +20 in two skill tabs, give them a +15 in all the tabs


Offense Line Changes


Give them +10 to toughness in every other skill tab


Special Class Move ( Defensive ) – Only available at Master this mode will make the Pikeman’s evasiveness, Defense, and Block increase by ½. This lasts for 10 minutes, also this move takes 125 from ham and the Pikeman’s Attack goes down by 1/4. This is not like berserk or intimidate in terms of the chances of it being applied. Always works 100% of the time unless you are in a stun state. (Right now stun is pretty useless)


Special Class Move ( Paralyze ) – Available to Pikeman only this move makes the opponent speed decrease by half and their running speed decrease by half lasts for 3-5 minutes (at master). Can only use once per enemy and cannot apply more if it is already applied. Has 10% chance of working and only lasts for a minute at Novice, and include skill mods so when at master 85% or higher chance of working and lasts longer. Cost 125 HAM.


Fencer


Pro – Good attack Speed, can bleed body, and can target multiple ham bars at once with its attacks. And has the use of a non-kinetic move (Stun), Nice variety of moves (Dizzy, stun, area dizzy, area blind, etc)


Con – No KD, or no basic Posture change other than what all melees get in brawler, not enough evasiveness or dodging. Not fast enough.


Solution – Increase it’s attack speed and give it more dodging and defense bonuses to make up for less damage.


Fencing Stances


Give them +5 instead of +2 to melee and ranged defense in both skill tabs.


Fencing Footwork


Give them +15 to all 4 tabs in speed.


Fencing Technique


Give them +10 to dodge in every other tab instead of +5 in one tab.


Special Class Move ( Parry ) – Only available at Master this mode will make the Fencer Parry moves and return the damage and effects of the move that was going to be dealt to them, to the attacker at half the damage, has to be done before the move and has a chance of not parrying. If not parried they suffer 1/3 more than they would if they had gotten hit. There is a 60% chance of parrying the move. So if the Attack was a 100 stun move and the attack was parried the attacker would suffer the stun and receive 50 damage. If the attack wasn’t parried the fencer would receive 125 damage and still be stunned. This takes 100 from HAM.


Special Class Move ( De-equip ) – Available to Fencers and Swordsman Novice, this moves makes the opponent unable to use his current weapon for around 5-10 seconds. Can only use once every 35 seconds and 15% chance of working at Novice and include skill mods so when at master 85% or higher chance of working. Cost 125 HAM.


Teras Kasi


Pro – Good damage overall, fastest attack speed, can directly attack all pools, can heal poison/bleed and other effects, good toughness, excellent variety of moves and skill mods.


Con – High HAM damage, no variety of weapons.


Solution – Just reduce HAM Costs.


Overall Change


That is what I had in mind for the melee changes, plus, overall Swordsman and Pikeman should have more toughness and deal more damage than the TKA and Fencer, while those 2 shoulddeal lessdamage and have more evasiveness and speed (right now TKA has more of all). So instead of decreasing TKA’s damage, just increase pikeman and swordsman damage, and increase fencers’ speed. The Swordsman and Pikeman range should be changed since they acquire larger/longer weapons. I think this would be a good way to add variety and give us other classes the variety in which we are are lacking.


Range changes:


Pikeman: 9-10m


Swordsman: 8m


Fencer: 6m


Teras Kasi: 5m


I believe if those changes were put into affect this would make melee so much more better and balanced. I’d love to hear what everyone thinks about this please feel free to post. Hopefully if we get enough readers to read this it we could get some of this implemented. This wouldn’t be hard at all to implement just a few variable changes and new moves. Thanks all and stay brawlin.




Ayyub Zenogias

Da Black Ghetto Swordsman in Shinin Armor

"f**k wit me imps and my Titan's Hand Hammer will be all up in yo a$$"
BoyOfLight
Sun Oct 05, 2003 8:39 pm
#3

I'd like to poitn out that in swordsmen an area bleed would never fly with other players and an area kd would never fly with the devs.....=)





Egnar/Egnards Atop
Tarquinas Legion
Grand High Troll of The Troll Order/A Ninja of One
| If you played with force powers before it was viable, put this in your sig |
Chaed_Arelk
Sun Oct 05, 2003 9:58 pm
#4

As much as I would LOVE to see some of those changes, I doubt it will ever happen. Hell! They are moving KD moves down to a 5 second timer in the TC patch notes. Thats what everyone hated to begin with!!!



Eain Rathair
~ Master of Melee ~
~ Warrior, Guardian, Friend ~
Peace is a lie, there is only Passion. Through Passion, I gain Strength.
Through Strength, I gain Victory. Through Victory, my chains are broken.

The Force shall set me free.


Zenoge
Sun Oct 05, 2003 10:07 pm
#5

Actually there is already an area kd, The pikeman have it hehe.



Ayyub Zenogias

Da Black Ghetto Swordsman in Shinin Armor

"f**k wit me imps and my Titan's Hand Hammer will be all up in yo a$$"
ElvenHunter2
Mon Oct 06, 2003 4:18 am
#6

5m for TKA


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APEist_theReb
Mon Oct 06, 2003 5:52 am
#7

very good zenoge.

good ideas with all the special master abliteies and such, except for the fencer.

with only a 60% chance of working, the consequences of it not working are too high. how about it not having a ham cost, as if it fails they get damaged more, and get the effect, so i only think its fair.

area kd would be awesome, but even a single target kd would rule. it makes sense doesnt it? our first sweep was a posturechange defensive move, now that u have expert defense in swordsman u get sweep 2 with a kd. it offers better defense at a higher level, makes total sense.



APEist

Rebel Soldier of VYRIS

If I had a penny for all the people I've damned,
I'd be a trillionaire, and btw, damn you.


+80 speed and I'll still kick your ass.

Swordsman Motto: We like our women like our enemies, hammered.

APEist_theReb
Mon Oct 06, 2003 5:55 am
#8

o and it would be coo if u posted this on the other melee forums, and maybe on the swg discusion forum.



APEist

Rebel Soldier of VYRIS

If I had a penny for all the people I've damned,
I'd be a trillionaire, and btw, damn you.


+80 speed and I'll still kick your ass.

Swordsman Motto: We like our women like our enemies, hammered.

Zenoge
Mon Oct 06, 2003 11:49 am
#9

thx man for the reply. Yeah i thought abit about the move for fencer, also it probably should return the same amount of damage or something close to it, but then all the fencer would do is probably try to spam that move all during the battle, so the best thing for that would be setting a cap to how many times it can be used or maybe a time cap (like KD). I posted this on the brawler forums but i'll put it on the fencer pikeman and tka forum plus SWG Discussions. TKA probably won't care too much since they don't have many changes



Ayyub Zenogias

Da Black Ghetto Swordsman in Shinin Armor

"f**k wit me imps and my Titan's Hand Hammer will be all up in yo a$$"
Zenoge
Mon Oct 06, 2003 11:59 am
#10

Everyone knows that brawling is the gimp of all combat as of right now. With our out of range issues, no variety of weapons, and commando’s current power, we are currently the last resort for combat. With the exception of TKA, there are a small lot of us who are currently masters in swordsman, fencers and pikeman. When the devs fix the range issues we will be better but still quite unbalanced. I thought of a list of stuff to put together that will even us up and make us more formidable in battle.


(Has been edited abit from swordsman/brawler posts)


Swordsman


Pro – Good Mind hits and Mind Bleeds and deals out very good damage, Has the use of a non-kinetic weapon (Blast)


Cons – Terrible variety of Moves (No stun or blind, and very small chance of dizzying), and gets the least amount of skill mods than any other melee class, No class KD (In this tree).



Solution – Give us more variety and more skill mods and reduce HAM Costs


Offense Line Changes


Make Area Attack 1 ability to blind & Damage area


Make Area Attack 2 ability to stun & Damage area


Make Area Attack 3 Ability to dizzy and Posture Change area (dizzy much greater chance than what it is now though)


Technique Line Changes


Nothing really wrong with this area, swordsman have more toughness than pikeman and fencer but not more than TKA so I’d leave this alone.


Defense Line Changes


Change Two-Hand Sweep toKnockdown


Finesse Line Changes


In Expert Finesse give us a mind area bleed, more skill mods or move down the mind hit 2 to it. Overall need do something immediately in the expert finesse tab.


Master Swordsman


This is fine as it is but if anything I would make 2 hand hit 3 Dizzy and blind an opponent and have a much greater chance of success than before.


Special Class Move ( Savage ) – Only Available at Master this mode will make the Swordsman’s Speed (Delay in special moves decrease), Accuracy, and Damage increase by ½. Also Counter-Attack chances double. This lasts for 10 minutes, also this move takes 125 from ham and the swordsman’s defense goes down by 1/4. This is not like berserk or intimidate in terms of the chances of it being applied. Always works 100% of the time unless you are in a stun state. (Right now stun is pretty useless)


Special Class Move ( De-equip ) – Available to Fencers and Swordsman novice this moves makes the opponent unable to use his current weapon for around 5-10 seconds. Can only use once and 15% chance of working at Novice and include skill mods so when at master 85% or higher chance of working. Cost 125 HAM


Pikeman


Pro – Can attack the Action bar for good damage and bleed the action bar


This class deals one of the highest damage. Has the use of a non-kinetic weapon (Electric)


Cons – Terrible accuracy, no variety weapons (Mostly for all melee), Receives less toughness than other melee.


Solution – Give them more accuracy and more toughness than all melee (especially if their speed will be reduced in the upcoming patches) and reduce HAM Costs.


Support Line Changes


Instead of Accuracy +20 in two skill tabs, give them a +15 in all the tabs


Offense Line Changes


Give them +10 to toughness in every other skill tab


Special Class Move ( Defensive ) – Only available at Master this mode will make the Pikeman’s evasiveness, Defense, and Block increase by ½. This lasts for 10 minutes, also this move takes 125 from ham and the Pikeman’s Attack goes down by 1/4. This is not like berserk or intimidate in terms of the chances of it being applied. Always works 100% of the time unless you are in a stun state. (Right now stun is pretty useless)


Special Class Move ( Paralyze ) – Available to Pikeman only this move makes the opponent speed decrease by half and their running speed decrease by half lasts for 3-5 minutes (at master). Can only use once per enemy and cannot apply more if it is already applied. Has 10% chance of working and only lasts for a minute at Novice, and include skill mods so when at master 85% or higher chance of working and lasts longer. Cost 125 HAM.


Fencer


Pro – Good attack Speed, can bleed body, and can target multiple ham bars at once with its attacks. And has the use of a non-kinetic move (Stun), Nice variety of moves (Dizzy, stun, area dizzy, area blind, etc)


Con – No KD, or no basic Posture change other than what all melees get in brawler, not enough evasiveness or dodging. Not fast enough.


Solution – Increase it’s attack speed and give it more dodging and defense bonuses to make up for less damage.


Fencing Stances


Give them +5 instead of +2 to melee and ranged defense in both skill tabs.


Fencing Footwork


Give them +15 to all 4 tabs in speed.


Fencing Technique


Give them +10 to dodge in every other tab instead of +5 in one tab.


Special Class Move ( Parry ) – Only available at Master this mode will make the Fencer Parry moves and return the damage and effects of the move that was going to be dealt to them, to the attacker at half the damage, has to be done before the move and has a chance of not parrying. If not parried they suffer 1/3 more than they would if they had gotten hit. There is a 65% chance of parrying the move. So if the Attack was a 100 stun move and the attack was parried the attacker would suffer the stun and receive 50 damage. If the attack wasn’t parried the fencer would receive 125 damage and still be stunned. No HAM Costs.


Special Class Move ( De-equip ) – Available to Fencers and Swordsman Novice, this moves makes the opponent unable to use his current weapon for around 5-10 seconds. Can only use once every 35 seconds and 15% chance of working at Novice and include skill mods so when at master 85% or higher chance of working. Cost 125 HAM.


Teras Kasi


Pro – Good damage overall, fastest attack speed, can directly attack all pools, can heal poison/bleed and other effects, good toughness, excellent variety of moves and skill mods.


Con – High HAM damage, no variety of weapons.


Solution – Just reduce HAM Costs.


Overall Change


That is what I had in mind for the melee changes, plus, overall Swordsman and Pikeman should have more toughness and deal more damage than the TKA and Fencer, while those 2 shoulddeal lessdamage and have more evasiveness and speed (right now TKA has more of all). So instead of decreasing TKA’s damage, just increase pikeman and swordsman damage, and increase fencers’ speed. The Swordsman and Pikeman range should be changed since they acquire larger/longer weapons. I think this would be a good way to add variety and give us other classes the variety in which we are are lacking.


Range changes:


Pikeman: 9-10m


Swordsman: 8m


Fencer: 6m


Teras Kasi: 5m


I believe if those changes were put into affect this would make melee so much more better and balanced. I’d love to hear what everyone thinks about this please feel free to post. Hopefully if we get enough readers to read this it we could get some of this implemented. This wouldn’t be hard at all to implement just a few variable changes and new moves. Thanks all and stay brawlin.




Ayyub Zenogias

Da Black Ghetto Swordsman in Shinin Armor

"f**k wit me imps and my Titan's Hand Hammer will be all up in yo a$$"
EdelKrieger
Mon Oct 06, 2003 1:50 pm
#11

Very well thought out post. If only this was put into action...



I know we are supposed to be the highest attack per hit, but what am I missing? A novice commando can hit higher then me.

jeffinthebox
Mon Oct 06, 2003 2:08 pm
#12

Well thought out...not sure how I feel about the specifics of your new moves for the pikeman, but it's a thought.






Earwig [Starsider]
Pikeman : The only class that couldn't hit the ground if they dropped their weapon.
DarkNerfer
Mon Oct 06, 2003 2:47 pm
#13

________________________________________________________________________________________


Fencer


Pro – Good attack Speed, can bleed body, and can target multiple ham bars at once with its attacks. And has the use of a non-kinetic move (Stun), Nice variety of moves (Dizzy, stun, area dizzy, area blind, etc)


________________________________________________________________________________________



we cannot stun an opponent... i would like to have this ability tho.....

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