Brawler Archive
Thread: P7 going to TC...Patch notes
These are a few notes I thought were interesting in relation to Brawlers and Melee fighters in general.
Professions: Brawler Warcry 1&2: Changed the warcry status effect to break when the target takes damage and using the warcry ability will not change your combat target.
Pets Added additional checks for invalid pets. Invalid pets (stats out of acceptable range, incorrect level for stats, etc) will not be able to called from the Datapad.
Grouping Players will now receive a system message when a group member loots an item from a corpse.
Changed /activateClone to only work while dead
Added a cap to defensive skill mods (block, dodge & counterattack) to prevent near invulnerable defenders.
Fixed inverted ToHit modifiers. (Melees now get correct ToHit bonus when attacked targets with ranged weapons, Food Accuracy & Dodge Buffs now work correctly
Medical enhancements can now be replaced if the new one is of equal or greater strength. As a result there is no longer a need to wait out a previous enhancement in order to replace it with something better.
Smugglers are getting nerfed as well, so at least it was fair. Warcry will still be okay, just used differently now. We still dont *really* know how it will work, as it will take some testing in different situations to get a firm grip on how it will work. But theoretically, this could be a way to escape from combat. Warcry and quickly /peace so the critter cant attack (since you are no longer attacking it) then run away. It could also help avoid getting swarmed by social creatures by freezing some of the ones you are not attacking yet. Further Modifications: Make Warcry an AoE effect, NOT a cone. Melee mobs will circle you when attacking, and a cone effect will not effect many of them...maybe one of the 3 in the front 90 degree arc (not including your active target of course).
Group looting notification...woot! Pets...well, bummer to all those who bought the BE exploited pets. Defensive Caps...notice they STILL haven't told us what those caps are. Stat mods work right? Can it be true??!!
Buffing improved, YAY! So if someone ninja buffs you with something crappy, your more skilled Doc can "copy over" the buff with a better one. This will also mean Docs will likely have to adjust their pricing. I know that if I get a Buff less than 2k, I'll ask them to try again. My goal woudl be to get a buff of at least 2k in each stat, and now they can buff the same stat over and over till I am happy with the results. Now if they woudl just let use remove all buffs if we want. The new buff window is spiffy, but we still needa way to remove a buff early of we want. What if there is 29 minutes left on a really great Doc buff, and I want to refresh it now so I can join the group leaving for a new destination in 5 minutes? I'd still have to do the DB/Rez thing. I liked /activateCLone...I wish it stayed in.
I shouldn't be proposing KD/dizzy 
Daros wrote:
Uh... because Warcry and Panic Shot are about identical? Only makes sense that both skills share the same fate...
Look, most of us don't like it either, but at least they're keeping it even.
Wrong. Warcry is a LOT different than Panic Shot, and this isn't even at all.
- Warcry is a scream.
- Panic Shot is a flurry of pistol shots.
- Warcry1 lasts for 10 seconds, but Warcry2 lasts for 20 seconds, and both are on a 30-second timer.
- Panic Shot lasts for 10 seconds and is on a 30-second timer.
- Warcry has no defense other than your failure.
- Panic Shot can be Blocked, Dodged, Counterattacked, or simply missed.
- Warcry doesn't cause any damage.
- Panic Shot does damage to a target if it hits.
- Warcry1 is a Novice Brawler skill, while Warcry2 is in the Master box of a starting profession.
- Panic Shot is a 2nd-tier Hybrid profession's skill, requiring skills from three differentskilltrees to use. In fact, Smugglers use a branch of the Brawler tree as a prerequisite, meaning that it's a stepping stone to more powerful abilities.
- Warcry has all of its effectiveness in the Brawler tree. Once you are a Master Brawler, you have the best possible skills to use Warcry effectively.
- Panic Shot depends on Pistol Accuracy to hit a target.
- Warcry1 is acquired by spending 100 credits and 15 available skillpoints. Warcry2 requires 77 skillpoints,620 Apprentice XP,and 364,000 points of different melee combat XP.
- Panic Shotrequires that you invest 29 skillpoints in Brawler, 29 skillpoints in Marksman, and 18 skillpoints in Smuggler, for a total of 73 skillpoints. To use Panic Shot, you need to earn 91,000 Unarmed XP and 566,000 Pistol XP. Considering that Pistol Accuracy is needed forPanic Shotto work effectively, however, there's a need to invest in Pistoleer skills. To get only the branch dedicated to Pistol Accuracy, one needs to invest another 20 skillpoints and earn another 1,275,000 Pistol XP. To maximize your chances of landing a Panic Shot, you need to invest another2,450,000 Pistol XP, 56,000 Combat XP, 620 Apprentice XP, and 43 skillpoints. So to be most effective at using a Panic Shot, a Smuggler needs to also be a Master Pistoleer, spending a grand total of 165 skillpoints and 4,291,000 Pistol XP, among other things.
There are many differences between Warcry and Panic Shot. All Smugglers are Brawlers, but not all Brawlers are Smugglers. Smugglers build on the abilities of the Brawler profession and augment them. Both in terms of a skillpoint argument and an XP argument, Smuggler abilities should be more potent than Brawler skills. Brawler is a prerequisite for Smuggler, andthere is NO justification for equating the power of the prerequisite with the power of the advanced skill. By that faultylogic, Unarmed Hit 1 would do just as much damage as Unarmed Hit 3.
Daros wrote:
Ah... to get Warcry 2, you need to spend more points than you need to get Panic Shot... therefore PS shouldn't be more powerful.
Down to a game mechanics arguement, Panic Shot is done at range, which with pistols maxes out much farther than Warcry's short range. I think being able to lock something down at long range makes it as potent as being able to lock -maybe- two things down at short range...
Regardless, both skills do the same thing... shut someone down for 10 seconds, Warcry 2 for 20. I -still- believe there should be a skill/defense check system in place instead of changing both skills (make it work off Def vs. Stun)...
Pickingtwo numbers out of all the data I just handed to you and making your case based on that is about as dishonest as it gets.
Go back and address everything point by point, because you glossed over everything butthe one tiny portion of data that supports your position. It's as if only the skillpoints needed to access the abilitiesregistered on your screenand everything else was invisible to you.
Wrong. Warcry is a LOT different than Panic Shot, and this isn't even at all.
Your right, it's not even. Panic shot is more effective then Warcry.
Warcry is a scream.
Panic Shot is a flurry of pistol shots.
Umm, so?
Warcry1 lasts for 10 seconds, but Warcry2 lasts for 20 seconds, and both are on a 30-second timer.
Panic Shot lasts for 10 seconds and is on a 30-second timer.
Umm, so?
Warcry has no defense other than your failure.
Panic Shot can be Blocked, Dodged, Counterattacked, or simply missed.
The failure rate on Warcry is extremely high. With pistoleer (which 90% of the smuggler population has) you will stick a panic shot almost all the time. Add the insane HAM costs versus lower panic shot HAM costs. Advantage Panic shot.
Warcry doesn't cause any damage.
Panic Shot does damage to a target if it hits.
Again, advantage panic shot.
Warcry1 is a Novice Brawler skill, while Warcry2 is in the Master box of a starting profession.
Panic Shot is a 2nd-tier Hybrid profession's skill, requiring skills from three different skilltrees to use. In fact, Smugglers use a branch of the Brawler tree as a prerequisite, meaning that it's a stepping stone to more powerful abilities.
And the advantage is at the elite tier you get to use a great brawler skill at 64m. Advantage panic shot.
Warcry has all of its effectiveness in the Brawler tree. Once you are a Master Brawler, you have the best possible skills to use Warcry effectively.
Panic Shot depends on Pistol Accuracy to hit a target.
Warcry and Warcy 2 fail about the same. Even with bioengineered clothing warcry 2 will fail 2 out of every 3 tries. If the skill works or fails you take a massive hit to your HAM.
Warcry1 is acquired by spending 100 credits and 15 available skillpoints. Warcry2 requires 77 skillpoints, 620 Apprentice XP, and 364,000 points of different melee combat XP.
Panic Shot requires that you invest 29 skillpoints in Brawler, 29 skillpoints in Marksman, and 18 skillpoints in Smuggler, for a total of 73 skillpoints. To use Panic Shot, you need to earn 91,000 Unarmed XP and 566,000 Pistol XP. Considering that Pistol Accuracy is needed for Panic Shot to work effectively, however, there's a need to invest in Pistoleer skills. To get only the branch dedicated to Pistol Accuracy, one needs to invest another 20 skillpoints and earn another 1,275,000 Pistol XP. To maximize your chances of landing a Panic Shot, you need to invest another 2,450,000 Pistol XP, 56,000 Combat XP, 620 Apprentice XP, and 43 skillpoints. So to be most effective at using a Panic Shot, a Smuggler needs to also be a Master Pistoleer, spending a grand total of 165 skillpoints and 4,291,000 Pistol XP, among other things.
Again, you get a brawler skill at a range of 64m. Master Brawler takes more skill points to attain then Panic shot in the DF tree so it should be more effective.
There are many differences between Warcry and Panic Shot. All Smugglers are Brawlers, but not all Brawlers are Smugglers. Smugglers build on the abilities of the Brawler profession and augment them. Both in terms of a skillpoint argument and an XP argument, Smuggler abilities should be more potent than Brawler skills. Brawler is a prerequisite for Smuggler, and there is NO justification for equating the power of the prerequisite with the power of the advanced skill. By that faulty logic, Unarmed Hit 1 would do just as much damage as Unarmed Hit 3.
Your logic is faulty to the extreme. If warcry's delay is removed from the game they need to remove it from all characters. It's as balanced as taking unlimited KD from everyone but the carbineers.
For the record I'm 100 percent against this nerf. I don't want the game mechanic taken away form either smugglers or brawlers. The point is if the mechanic is overpowered for brawlers it's just as overpowered for any other class that has it.
Message Edited by mega3113 on 02-28-2004 07:07 AM
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Developers&message.id=25216&page=27
Corschen wrote:"Ah... to get Warcry 2, you need to spend more points than you need to get Panic Shot... therefore PS shouldn't be more powerful.:No, warcry 2 is essentially the most effective version, and should thus be compared to Master Pistoleer/Panic shot. Just panic shot by itself should be compared to warcry 1, which is only 15 SP
Hmm 65m range is worse than 20-something meter range? Thank you for telling me that because I thought the fact that delaying something without any chance of them hitting you while you attempt was an advantage
And I don't know how the panic shot accuracy is with master pistoleer, but with all the bio-e bonuses you can get warcry2 still just has about a 50% chance of landing, and with that high ham cost that hurts, sometimes I have to use it 4 times for it to stick...