Brawler Archive

Thread: Extensive Berserk Testing

AlonzoOdantis
Wed Apr 21, 2004 3:17 pm
#1


I will be doing this test in phases and consider this the first phase:


my template:


master brawler

master swordsman

master smuggler

novice medic


my partner's template at time of testing:


master tailor

1-4-0-0 artisan

0-4-0-4 entertainer

0-0-4-0 musician

0-4-0-0 marksman

4-0-0-0 brawler

0-4-0-1 smuggler


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


She stood unarmed, unarmored, and unbuffed in any way while i hit her.


My weapon: 230-405 2.6 spd scythe blade


in testing done withOUT berserk on, damage ranged on average* from 89-151

with berserk 1, damage ranged on average* from 120ish to 180ish

with berserk 2, damage ranged on average* from 120ish to 180ish


Berserk 1 lasts approx. 20 seconds

Berserk 2 lasts approx. 2 minutes or 120 seconds


some questions to be raised:


1) anyone else think my damage should have been higher in all 3 considering she had no mitigation or special items/buffs? 230-405 weapon doing 89-151 seems wrong.... i guess this is for factors such as melee defense and such but i'd like some reply to this if anyone knows for sure.


2) It seems that as suspected berserk 2 is nothing but a hinderence. Due to the inability to do nearly ANYTHING while berserk, most importantly specials/mounting vehicle/peace....this long lasting version is a pain more than pleasure.


3) Since so far i've only tested with the one weapon its hard to know for sure if berserk is a raw numbers boost to damage or a %, but i would wager it is a %, again verification would be nice, however I do plan on testing this later myself.


4) assuming for sake of argument this info is correct. I think we all need to take a discussion as to how we'd like to see berserk changed. Obviously i don't think its correct to have the novice skill be more useful than the master skill. Here are some suggestions for different directions the devs could go with this:


I. Berserk could grant a lesser damage boost at novice, and a high damage boost at master. say 25% at novice and 50% at master. On top of this, perhaps a bonus AP+1 to whatever they are wielding. Don't know if its readily able to be coded to do this though.


II. Make specials work while berserk, and leave damage where its at. The boost to master being the length of time after this change is made.


III. note that at the time of this first phase of testing the supposed defensive drop you experience while berserk was not tested, that being said: Focus on this aspect devs, When i think of berserk i think of luke when he gets pissed at vader and just starts swinging with all he's got. That would be a successful example of berserk...and unsuccessful version would be anakin in episode 2 getting his arm lopped out soon as he gets a bit peeved lol. Anyway, i am ok with no defense if the damage output is increased enough to have a point. Like double damage or 200% damage to give up our defenses...for us swordsmen especially this would really send home our offensive edge since we lack in defense anyway...this might seem biased towards swordsman..but do you really think of a guy going berserk with a stun baton anyway?


IV. instead of a normal status, just have berserk be a mode on or off. This would be in addition to changing its abilities in another manner. But for example as a style of fighting. While berserk fighting, big bonuses to damage but big cuts to defense/accuracy. Then have normal fighting as always. Again this would seem ahrder to code though.




In closing, there need to be further tests ran until this test can be considered closed...for example the defensive cuts taken and the different weapons to see if its a number boost or percentage. This I think is a good start though and I'd like some initial feedback before I delve further into this one.


*= these numbers are not necessarily a mathematical average as just a trend. There are fluke hits outside of these ranges but they were rare and only a couple of points outside the range anyway (+ or - 2/3) these seem to reflect the actual range you'll find.


Thank you,

Message Edited by AlonzoOdantis on 04-21-2004 06:20 PM



The Viceroy
You're gonna get pwned, RP style
- I support the CURB, the Devs and the attempt to make SWG a better game! - You can too!-

Areriye
Wed Apr 21, 2004 3:35 pm
#2

Good thread idea. I have been curious if mastering brawler was worth it for the 'enhanced' warcry, intimidate and berserker... I really only use berserker in group play OR if I preceed it with bone spur, wire mesh and intimidate.



-
Chilastra: Areriye Tsion, 47th IEF Squad Corporal

Starsider: Dackelrra, Dragoon (Master Pike/Tracker)
MasterOfCombat
Wed Apr 21, 2004 9:20 pm
#3






AlonzoOdantis wrote:



4-0-0-0 brawler

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


She stood unarmed, unarmored, and unbuffed in any way while i hit her.


My weapon: 230-405 2.6 spd scythe blade


in testing done withOUT berserk on, damage ranged on average* from 89-151

with berserk 1, damage ranged on average* from 120ish to 180ish

with berserk 2, damage ranged on average* from 120ish to 180ish


Berserk 1 lasts approx. 20 seconds

Berserk 2 lasts approx. 2 minutes or 120 seconds


some questions to be raised:


1) anyone else think my damage should have been higher in all 3 considering she had no mitigation or special items/buffs? 230-405 weapon doing 89-151 seems wrong.... i guess this is for factors such as melee defense and such but i'd like some reply to this if anyone knows for sure.





Berserk is supposed to add +75 damage to your attacks. Your friend had +20 Unarmed Toughness (so a damage reduction of 20%, in addition to the 75% PvP reduction)

If Berserk is added after Proficiency Damage Bonus then:

So the damage (max) that you would be doing would be:


405 * 1.5 = 607.5 (proficiency bonus damage multiplier)

607.5 + 75 = 682.5

607.5 * .25 =170.6 (the % of damage you should be doing after PvP Reduction)

170.6 * .80 = 136.5 (after toughness)




If Berserk is added before Proficiency Damage Bonus then:

So the damage (max) that you would be doing would be:


405+ 75 = 480 (Berserk bonus

480 * 1.5 = 720 (proficiency bonus damage multiplier)

720 * .25 = 180 (the % of damage you should be doing after PvP Reduction)

180* .80 =144 (after toughness)


There is probably a factor I'mmissing numericaly (I know smugglers get melee and ranged mitigation 1 somewhere in their trees), but it appears, based upon what I've seen from berserk that you're doing more than it would appear you should be. Probably the weapon's AP needs factored in (I bet melee weapons with AP are treated as if they have resists, ie they get the damage multiplied, whereas ranged attacks won't get their damage bonus from AP unless you (the target)have armor resistant to it.)


Otherwise, that looks like it's doing precisely what berserk is supposed to be doing. Keep in mind I've added making berserk useful to my Top 5 submission, so maybe we'll see some love in that area.



Tosedred -
Teras Kasi Artist 4000 |
Master Swordsman |
Master Brawler |
Master Pikeman
xUnkarNokataki
Thu Apr 22, 2004 2:12 am
#4

Swords are AP2, so if the target was unarmored you should have a +50% damage no?



Lt. Xunkar Nokataki
Officier de Vol, Leader d'Escadron (Beta)
Second du 37è de Chasseurs
Forces Impériales
Witter
Thu Apr 22, 2004 3:43 am
#5

well lets just put it this way, berserk got a hardcore nerf soon after the release of the game because it was waay too powerful, but they really didn't have to nerf it this hardcore
MasterOfCombat
Thu Apr 22, 2004 7:38 am
#6






xUnkarNokataki wrote:
Swords are AP2, so if the target was unarmored you should have a +50% damage no?






Maybe, the AP system isn't fully understood as far as I can tell. My opinion is that AP shouldn't give a damage bonus (Just look at weapons with AP... They're already the highest damaging weapons in the game, (barring the HAR/FT) and there's never a situation in which having AP is a drawback. I'll talk to the AS, WS and see what they say about it.



Tosedred -
Teras Kasi Artist 4000 |
Master Swordsman |
Master Brawler |
Master Pikeman
xUnkarNokataki
Fri Apr 23, 2004 2:44 am
#7

Taken from the FAQ :

Our bone gloves have an Armor Rating of Light. Armor Ratings have four possible values: None, Light, Medium, and Heavy (sometimes referred to as AR 0, 1, 2 and 3). Personal armor always falls into the Light category with None being reserved for those with no armor and the other two values being reserved for armored vehicles and especially nasty critters.


If the armor's Armor Rating is equal to the weapon's Armor Piercing, there is no modification to the damage. If the Armor Rating is higher, however, there is a 50% reduction for each level of difference. On the other hand, if the Armor Piercing value of the weapon exceeds the Armor Rating of the armor the weapon does an additional 25% damage for each level that it exceeds the Armor Rating. Therefore, if the bone gloves' Armor Rating of Light defended against the CDEF pistol's Armor Rating of None (fig. 2), damage is reduced by 50%. But in the case of the power hammer (fig. 3), the Armor Piercing level is higher than that of the gloves. The power hammer, therefore, does 25% more damage. Note that the 50% reduction or 25% increase is counted for each level. So if that CDEF is used against an AT-ST whose Armor Rating is Heavy, there would be a three level difference. Damage is reduced by 50%, then another 50%, and another 50% for a mere 12.5% of the initial damage.


_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



So a Power Hammer with AP2 versus an unarmored target AP0 should have a +50%then a+25% damage bonus which would result in a +87.5% total bonus. (er not sure about that heh, well base 100 damages +50% = 150 dmg. 150 + 25% = 187.5 dmg.)





Lt. Xunkar Nokataki
Officier de Vol, Leader d'Escadron (Beta)
Second du 37è de Chasseurs
Forces Impériales
MasterOfCombat
Fri Apr 23, 2004 5:49 am
#8






xUnkarNokataki wrote:

So a Power Hammer with AP2 versus an unarmored target AP0 should have a +50%then a+25% damage bonus which would result in a +87.5% total bonus. (er not sure about that heh, well base 100 damages +50% = 150 dmg. 150 + 25% = 187.5 dmg.)







That's how it's supposed to work, but there are plenty of buggy things about AP/Resists currently, so I wouldn'tput all my money on that being right.


You might be best off testing with a weapon with no AP (such as the gaderffi baton) to limit the number of damage altering factors.


Message Edited by MasterOfCombat on 04-23-2004 08:50 AM



Tosedred -
Teras Kasi Artist 4000 |
Master Swordsman |
Master Brawler |
Master Pikeman
AlonzoOdantis
Fri Apr 23, 2004 9:12 pm
#9

noted...next test will use a 0 ap weapon...next phase of testing...and a retest with new factors will be complete soon



The Viceroy
You're gonna get pwned, RP style
- I support the CURB, the Devs and the attempt to make SWG a better game! - You can too!-

Gratdo
Sun Apr 25, 2004 4:01 am
#10






xUnkarNokataki wrote:

So a Power Hammer with AP2 versus an unarmored target AP0 should have a +50%then a+25% damage bonus which would result in a +87.5% total bonus. (er not sure about that heh, well base 100 damages +50% = 150 dmg. 150 + 25% = 187.5 dmg.)






I think it's a +25% for each level of AP above AR. So a hammer striking a 0% resist unarmored person would do 100% * 1.25 * 1.25 = 156% of its standard damage.


I did some test on savage quenkers on Dantooine (0AR, 35% kinetic), using my curved sword (AP2, kinetic). Computations suggest I should do 100% * 1.25 * 1.25 * .65 = 101% of damage, and experience proves that it does.

(You can check the overall influence of resists easily : le number in your console is damage before resist, the floating number above the critter is the actual damage).


As a side effect, I noticed lairs have a very high blast resist.
xUnkarNokataki
Mon Apr 26, 2004 2:32 am
#11

Thank you for the clarification Gratdo



Lt. Xunkar Nokataki
Officier de Vol, Leader d'Escadron (Beta)
Second du 37è de Chasseurs
Forces Impériales
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