Brawler Archive
Thread: Offense or Defense? St.Gabe please respond
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M0G4N
Sat Jan 24, 2004 10:47 pm
#1
Greetings all, specifically St.Gabe, I was just wondering if you could give a littleinput on a situation that has come from the recent announcements of a nearby bleed stack nerf, and a distant nerf to defense mod stacks. I admit to myself being a dabbler to find an uber template, and because of the upcoming changes, I would like your opinion on what you think would be the better choice.
First off, let me state what I have made myself, it is quite entertaining, and I'm sad to let it go, but I'm also glad that changes are being made.
Master Brawl + Master Fencer + TKA 4/3/0/4 + Marksman 0/4/0/0 + Pistol 0/0/4/0 + Novice Med
For anyone that wants to have some fun, I recommend this template for as long as it works. Notice that I chose the state defenses opposed to the dodge stacking from pistols, I tried them both and decided that the state defenses are more rewarding, especially with the addition of ranged mitigation along the state defense line. Well, anyway, here's the choice I should make...
Pro-Offense: This is where St.Gabe's input would be most appreciated because I was independently thinking about being Master Fencer + Master Swordsman + Master Brawler myself (I didn't realize that you changed from master brawl + tkm 
hehe, I guess we can invoke the "great minds thinkalike" cliche for this one).
hehe, I guess we can invoke the "great minds thinkalike" cliche for this one).Pro-Defense: Here, the input would be most appreciated from anyone else who has decided to combine a melee and ranged class (not saying that I wouldn't also like a response from St.Gabe on this subject). I have become accustomed to having ranged mitigation 2 and would thus like to include some ranged prof into this arrangement. I don't have the points to master a ranged prof with the other skills I intend to include, so I still have to settle for mitigation 2.
So there are my options, pure offense with the combination of the sword profs (fyi I am a rodian, so I really like this idea)or defense with keeping a form of ranged mitigation.
If you feel the need to flame me for this, so be it. I know that the best answer will come from waiting until all the changes actually go live and then decide for myself, but if there are any kind souls out there willing to share their experience with me, I would be most grateful. Thank you.
StGabriel
Sun Jan 25, 2004 3:01 am
#2
I've been trying to get more information on what the stacking "nerf" would entail. I'm opposed to getting rid of all stacking, although I think that certain instances were probably overpowered.
Generally, the best answer I can give you is probably: wait until after the combat rebalance. So much could possibly be changed and even as a correspondent I don't feel I have much of an idea what this will entail.
Regarding defense, I think you should be mindful of what your target is. Against very level content, for example, you'll find that dodge and melee defense are basically worthless: they hit all the time no matter what. At least that is my experience. That leads to the conclusion that the best high-end PvE defense is simply to take TKA for its melee toughness. In PvP, melee/ranged defense and doge are more important. RAnged mitigation will probably also be more useful in PvP although I think people tend to overemphasize its value. Mitigation 3 tends to be along the lines of 15-30% defense against high end creatures and players and less against middle creatures (say pikets, for example). Most high end content isn't shooting at you, although I can say that the new Genosian complex definitely contains a lot of ranged attacks. The other defense that is nice is of course status defense. I think you'll find that your best defense here is probably stacking in melee but I haven't really analyzed that greatly. The best defense these days seems to be powerful armor, depressing as that may be, which leads me to suggest that defense in your template might not be so important (30% less damage from mitigation isn't that exciting compared to 90+% less damage from armor).
Regarding offense. The offensive bonuses to fencer/swordsman are that you have 3 damage types and can target two pools. I do really like swordsman offense these days although I don't think it really shines until you get some +speed modifiers. I find myself using swords most of the time now (albeit with my +17 speed bonus) and have been considering dropping some of fencer. I consistently deal a lot more damage with my hammer. Even targeting health, I can do more damage using hit3 with my hammer than using body hit 3 with my gaderiffi. Note that I am primarily targeting high-end PvE content. All the same, I do use health bleeds plenty, I do like the backup of a stun damage weapon, and I do like the defense bonuses against mid-level stuff, and so I haven't yet been able to rationalize dropping anything. Partially I'm just not sure what I'd take. =-)
So I dunno, there is no really clear-cut answer. The more melee-centric build will have better defense in certains, or so I would imagine, and the offense gain is mostly giving you a few extra choices. Ramged mitigation has definite benefits but I would caution that they are not as amazing as some make them out to be. With possible changes to stacking that we don't know about yet and who knows what else on the line, I don't know what to advise and what I would advise would be different for different goals (i.e. PvE or PvP).
I do like my template a lot. One thing that is left unsaid in my sig is that I'm also 4003 TKA. I'm addicted to meditation and the the extra defenses definitely help out against the easier stuff.
Generally, the best answer I can give you is probably: wait until after the combat rebalance. So much could possibly be changed and even as a correspondent I don't feel I have much of an idea what this will entail.
Regarding defense, I think you should be mindful of what your target is. Against very level content, for example, you'll find that dodge and melee defense are basically worthless: they hit all the time no matter what. At least that is my experience. That leads to the conclusion that the best high-end PvE defense is simply to take TKA for its melee toughness. In PvP, melee/ranged defense and doge are more important. RAnged mitigation will probably also be more useful in PvP although I think people tend to overemphasize its value. Mitigation 3 tends to be along the lines of 15-30% defense against high end creatures and players and less against middle creatures (say pikets, for example). Most high end content isn't shooting at you, although I can say that the new Genosian complex definitely contains a lot of ranged attacks. The other defense that is nice is of course status defense. I think you'll find that your best defense here is probably stacking in melee but I haven't really analyzed that greatly. The best defense these days seems to be powerful armor, depressing as that may be, which leads me to suggest that defense in your template might not be so important (30% less damage from mitigation isn't that exciting compared to 90+% less damage from armor).
Regarding offense. The offensive bonuses to fencer/swordsman are that you have 3 damage types and can target two pools. I do really like swordsman offense these days although I don't think it really shines until you get some +speed modifiers. I find myself using swords most of the time now (albeit with my +17 speed bonus) and have been considering dropping some of fencer. I consistently deal a lot more damage with my hammer. Even targeting health, I can do more damage using hit3 with my hammer than using body hit 3 with my gaderiffi. Note that I am primarily targeting high-end PvE content. All the same, I do use health bleeds plenty, I do like the backup of a stun damage weapon, and I do like the defense bonuses against mid-level stuff, and so I haven't yet been able to rationalize dropping anything. Partially I'm just not sure what I'd take. =-)
So I dunno, there is no really clear-cut answer. The more melee-centric build will have better defense in certains, or so I would imagine, and the offense gain is mostly giving you a few extra choices. Ramged mitigation has definite benefits but I would caution that they are not as amazing as some make them out to be. With possible changes to stacking that we don't know about yet and who knows what else on the line, I don't know what to advise and what I would advise would be different for different goals (i.e. PvE or PvP).
I do like my template a lot. One thing that is left unsaid in my sig is that I'm also 4003 TKA. I'm addicted to meditation and the the extra defenses definitely help out against the easier stuff.
M0G4N
Sun Jan 25, 2004 9:43 am
#3
Gabe, thank you so much for the insight, I regret that I forgot to inform you that no matter what template I end up with, master brawler + master fencer is a MUST. I don't care much for the damage loss, I have far too much fun with this profession to ever let it go, not to mention that I also have near +25 to each one of the modifiable stats (via clothing/armor attachments) which i would also hate to let go. Well, if you do manage to add more given this new information, but know that I am more than satisfied with what you saidalready 
which i would also hate to let go. Well, if you do manage to add more given this new information, but know that I am more than satisfied with what you saidalready
M0G4N
Sun Jan 25, 2004 11:45 am
#4
M0G4N wrote:
Well, if you do manage to add more given this new information, but know that I am more than satisfied with what you saidalready
Umm, I meant to say that if you do manage to add more given the requirement that I am a master brawler + master fencer, I would be again very grateful. I guess I temporarily fell of the thought train 
OnlyMaestro
Sun Jan 25, 2004 5:02 pm
#5
Like I've always said..I think stacking must go because it defies logic:
Learning defense with a sword is differnet than a pistol and vice versa...they have nothing to do with one another.
I just kinda have a problem with the game when I can solo three rancors with buffs, armor and spice at once...
...then in PvP in same situation, get blasted without even hitting my target.
But I make money, and when I hit in PvP (which I admit I suck at) people fear me.
M0G4N
Mon Jan 26, 2004 2:15 am
#6
OnlyMaestro wrote:
Like I've always said..I think stacking must go because it defies logic:
Learning defense with a sword is differnet than a pistol and vice versa...they have nothing to do with one another.
I totally agree, and would also like to see some changes (even though the template I mentioned is stacking uberness). However, the point of this post is not "how to best restack my defenses" it is in essence whether i should get ranged mitigation or not, and to be honest, I think with surfacing of the scythe, I'm likely to say nay to the ranged mitigation. But as St.Gabe said, it's best to wait until the combat balance is actually implemented, so I shall
OnlyMaestro
Mon Jan 26, 2004 9:00 pm
#7
No one has any idea if/when the combat balance will ever happen...
Hopefully relatively soon tho!
StGabriel
Tue Jan 27, 2004 4:53 am
#8
I'm positive about the rebalance and suspect that it may come sooner rather than later, but I honestly have no idea of an exact time frame.
Fencer is a great profession and has a lot to offer. I definitely don't think you can go wrong there. I for one am hoping that fencers will receive some interesting unique abilities in the future that will further round them out. If stacking is reduced in value then I think that fencers will stand to gain overall as they have relatively high defenses without stacking at all.
Also, I'm hoping that the speed formula will be made a little bit more consistent (i.e. fast weapons always attack faster) and this is another change that would boost fencers.
In short, I think you'll have fun any way you go. I suspect that staying with fencer will be a good move in the future although I could be wrong.
Fencer is a great profession and has a lot to offer. I definitely don't think you can go wrong there. I for one am hoping that fencers will receive some interesting unique abilities in the future that will further round them out. If stacking is reduced in value then I think that fencers will stand to gain overall as they have relatively high defenses without stacking at all.
Also, I'm hoping that the speed formula will be made a little bit more consistent (i.e. fast weapons always attack faster) and this is another change that would boost fencers.
In short, I think you'll have fun any way you go. I suspect that staying with fencer will be a good move in the future although I could be wrong.
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