Brawler Archive

Ok, this is my first summary of the top 5 Brawler issues. I have read hundreds of Brawler posts here on these boards and I have talked to many Brawlers in game. What I’ll do is list the issue, and then cite a few examples or proposed fixes.

I’ll be posting this summary on the message board, and sending this exact copy to the developers. So I hope this is the first step to working as a gaming community to further the game play experience of the Brawler Class.

Issue Listing:

Issue Number 1: HAM Costs
As a Brawler, we stand toe to toe with mobs in melee combat. This means we leave ourselves open to get hit a lot. Using special moves, that are seemingly intended to help us out in combat, actually are really detrimental. Some of the HAM costs for moves actually do more damage to us then to our opponent. Coupled with failure rates of specials, most Brawlers will do more damage to themselves in a fight then the mob can do to them. Having the cost of specials be so prohibitive seems like a shame given the effort put into them. Other professions specials are a fraction of the cost, and have much more noticeable effects.

Issue Number 2: Special Moves
Failure rates on some moves are very very high. Intimidate, Berserk, Warcry, Taunt, can and do fail upwards of 7 or 8 times in a row. Most moves and specials should not be 100% effective, but for a skill like Intimidate, when it fails 5 times, can take out 3/4 of your HAM.

Some skills seem to have little or no noticeable effect on the opponent that they are used on. The stun specials and dizzy specials appear to add little more then an icon to the HAM bars of what you are attacking.

When skills fail so often, or have no noticeable effect, they are perceived as useless. The skills that most of the Brawlers I spoke to had an issue with were the ones that are acquired when getting the novice box. Berserk, Intimidate and Lunge.

Lunge in its current state, is of very little use. I think that having the maneuver do no damage is fine with people, but the general consensus is that it needs to actually put you within melee range of your opponent. After all, that is what a lunge does. It makes you shoot forward, and trip up for foe in the process, but leaving you in melee range of them, not jumping back to your starting position.

Issue Number 3: Defense
As trained physical fighters it seems strange that we have about as much chance to avoid or block a melee attack as a novice artisan. We may be able to take a hit or two more, then they can, but we will get hit just as often.

In a large hunting group against some of the tougher game mobs, usually a Brawler is the only person keeping the mobs attention, so they in turn take quite a bit of damage, or get incapacitated during the battle. When this happens, the Brawler has a lot of down time and misses out on experience, when a marksman would not.

Brawlers need to be able to last longer in a tanking roll, but don’t really need to be made tougher. Adding the ability to dodge/block/parry and possibly at higher ranks, go into defensive postures, would surely cut back on the downtimeof melee versus ranged and also balance out the class as having offense and defense, a much more realistic feel for the melee combatant.

Issue Number 4: Accuracy and Hitting While Moving
It seems like as a Brawler, staying in the very small window of space that is required to hit your target is not easy. When that window is achieved, why do we have a -5 to hit the target? Just equipping a pistol will bring our modifier to +30. So while a marksman can seemingly hit with great accuracy while running and from a distance, why does a Brawler at optimal distance and not moving receive a -5?

Also, Brawlers are the only class in the game that can’t attack while moving. If we are fighting another melee mob, and that mob starts to run away before it dies, we are unable to hit the creature to get the final few blows to kill it. In fact, usually we will be taking melee damage from the mob as it walks away from us facing the other direction. Many Brawlers have stated that just the simple act of trying to finish off a mob fleeing has got them incapacitated.

If we are to receive a -5 to hit modifier, that -5 to hit should be while we are moving. If we can manage to actually stay in melee range of a mob or PC, we should at least be able to still attack.

Issue Number 5: Getting Shot Through the World
As a Brawler, one realizes that against a marksman (mob or PC) you need to use the terrain to your advantage to stay alive. If we can’t attack while moving even if we are within range of our target, how come our target can shoot us through a mountain or building?

Many Brawlers use good tactics and skill when attacking or taking out an opponent with a gun. Having that opponent be able to attack you when they do not have line of sight, makes it frustrating when we can’t attack them even if we are 2m away and they are moving about.

Pet Peeve: Vibro Knucklers
I was allowed to post one pet peeve that was not included in the top 5 issues list, so here it goes. Vibro Knucklers, you know I love them, but a newbie Brawler just out of “Killer Kawalski’s School of Head Stomp” can easily equip them and become a damage machine. This is essentially like giving any other combat class their best weapon as soon as they leave the shuttle port. It also gives the unarmed Brawler and potential TKA no future weapon upgrades to look forward to.

There should be certifications for them just like there are for every other weapon. Brass knucklers, hardened iron knucklers, vibro knucklers, then disruptor knucklers. Something that scales as the unarmed Brawler advances, without giving them their ‘Ace’ up the sleeve from day one and giving them advancements to look forward too.

Going Forward:
I hope that everyone finds these issues reflect the overall Brawler. Some issues may be rated higher or lower depending on the person, but I hope I got the general issues pretty accurate this first time. As we refine this list, and define some proposed fixes or solutions, I’m sure that positive changes can be made.

I look forward to keeping up to date on the boards, and cooperating on these issues with everyone in the community.

Great work spaz ! Now we just need to see whats going on with Berserk.

WOOT SPAZ!!!

That list is everything I hoped it would be - I hope the devs will take it to heart. Thanks for your efforts - this post was just what I needed to see after reading about the Berserk nerf.

Akuna

Pretty good. I think the Devs would disagree that dizzy is useless, because if you have lunge, you can knockdown an opponent. However this overlaps with many other knockdown skills, and still Dizzy and Lunge should be independently useful.

Very nice list. I agree wholeheartedly with all of the points you've made, especially the points regarding the HAM costs of our special moves and the issues with Vibroknucklers being available way too early in the game. There should be a weapon progression just like other professions, and I would LOVE to see new "unarmed weapons" (doesn't make much sense but oh well..) put into the game. Currently, the HAM costs on a Vibroknuckler is much too high touse anything other than normal melee attacks.

Brawlers can attack while moving. You just often get an "out of range" message unless you mvoe in front of your target.

Here are some re-creatable examples of not being able to attack while moving that I frequently encounter.

1. Find a weak enemy like a thug and attack it. When it starts to run away because it has taken too much damage, try '/follow'. Your character will WALK behind the mob in range but not attack. The mob will keep hitting you with melee attacks (but never ranged).

2. Go to Lok and find some Spined Snakes. Thentry '/attack ; /follow'.Thesnakes like to back up slowly and your character will slowly follow them at1-2 meters butnever attack. The snake will be hitting you the whole time though.

3. Tryhelping a marksman who is running from a melee only mob. You candeclare the attack on themob but you willnever be able to hit it as long asthe marksman keeps moving and the mob keeps following him. The mob will be hitting the marksman the whole time though.

Are you saying that we can attack the mobs while they move as long as they are facing us?

Akuna

I'm sorry BUT you got it wrong!!!!

I never had an issue with ham cost, or special moves not working. you do know some MOBs have a stronge defense against some specail moves, like it is hard to intimadate insects. soIF IT IS FAILING STOP USING IT AND USE A DEFERENT SPECAIL MOVE!!!!!!!!!!!

Hitting while moving and auto-defend are issues 1 and 2!!!!!

I'm not a tank and don't want do be, IF you want to tankask forbetter armor that you can tank in. DON"T ask the devs to make us all tanks!

Getting shot though walls is a /bug issue and anytime you find a wall that can be shot though do a /bug report.

Sorry for being so blunt,

Spaz is on it

I play as a brawler and they are fine, stop your whining especially about the vibral knuckles its the only thing that lets me kill things without dying a lot and a lot.

But I sure would not mind them adding some cool looking move for brawlers like a flying kick. Which would be like a counter for the trip moves armed brawlers do. A leg sweep would be great too etc.... just cool looking moves that enhance the combat.

Keep in mind this game isnt for just a gamer who sits at computer 5 hours a day with group of friends playing around. This is for a casual gamer too who plays for an hour a day tops solo style. If solo game gets bad people like me just would want to quit and you are really pushing it that way bro.

Wait, this game isn't just for people who sit in front of their computer for 5 hours a night? Does that say that on the box somewhere? They should really put that on the box.

Cheers,

ChiZX

I dont know what the last guy said means, it had no point to it. But here is what original post was wrong on.

1) Moves take away too much action or health when used. Well then put more points into the appropriate stat pools so you do not lose much. Putting 0 into those special stats leaving them stock number (which is what many people do) is not the right way to play your class.

2) Fighting while moving, you can fight while moving just dont think you can reach things that are half a mile off with your fist.

3) Damage absorption is fine, more would be nice but not really needed. Who the hell came up with idea that this is everquest and we are a tank class. This is different game, brawler isNOT a "TANK", merely a melee fighter with cool moves. This was not designed for healer/tank/enchanter, this game was designed for a totally different type of combat get over it.