Brawler Archive

Thread: Potential Solution vs. Ranged

PWT
Wed Aug 13, 2003 6:35 am
#1

I'm not sure if this has been proposed or not, I've only been active on the Swordsman board, but since this effects brawlers and all brawler based elite professions I figured I would post it here.

Brawlers and all brawler based elite professions all have the same issue, what to do when running at a ranged combatant and being blasted the whole time. Potential solution, a "Full Defense" mode. While covering that distance you will not be attacking, why not allow brawer based professions to use a Full Defense mode that allows to improve our defense while tanking but do almost no damage. Sort of the anti-berzerk. This not only would help us in pvp as we could increase our defense while chasing down that ranged guy, we could also help us in PvE as we could tank higher level mobs without worrying as much about the 1 or 2 hit kills we sometimes take against them.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Am I an idiot? I know other MMO's that have a similar function. DAoC has "Engage" where a person with a shield can basically block everything thrown at them, there block chance is boosted dramatically but they cannot attack.



Siake Vace - BH / Master Ranger - Chilastra
Segavo Ire - Master Artisan / DE - Chilastra
Airaim
Thu Aug 14, 2003 9:44 am
#2

I have had good luck with the Ranged Support leg of Marksmen. I am a Novice Pikeman with 0-0-0-4 Marksmen. This not only gives you great Ranged and Melee defense bonuses, but you also get tumbling abilities. When I get aggroed from a distance, I use the Tumble to kneel, then Tumble to stand abilities. This will usually keep you tumbling (and therefore very hard to hit) until you get into range to put the smack down.


This skill set requires only combat xp, which we build up anyway.


Just a suggestion....I have had great luck with it.


Cheers,


-Airaim

Darth_Vallejo
Thu Aug 14, 2003 10:25 am
#3

i had just finished a post on this same subject then i seen your post. Ill post mine here as well to keep it in one thread:


On top of the 3 standard postures (prone, kneel, stand)i think they should add in a fourth for brawlers, just for defensive purposes. When your in this posture it could give an increase to defensive moves(block,dodge,evade,etc) while taking a reduction in damage dealt or chance to hit. There could even be specialized defensive postures for eachbrawler proffession (unarmed, sword, fencer, pikeman)once you reach that elite skill.


This is a MUST idea IMO. As a matter of fact i wouldnt mind seeing something like this for allcombat classes. Without somesort of defense,combat becomes like the colonial days when you just stood there and got shot! Lame.


AnotherBIG thing the SWG really needs though is effective cover! being able to hide behind world objects and stillfire at your enemyis a must in my opinion, well at least for ranged combat that is.



Great idea PWT!!!!!




----------------------------------------------
Blackcrow
Master Marksman / Miner
Eclipse
ArkMindSpear
Fri Aug 15, 2003 12:06 am
#4

I posted this in pikeman and tera kasi boards as i think they are really good ideas and should be given thought.






all right. here is what i would do. And i think it would make most every one happy.


In PvP-


Ranged weapon users do 75% damage to other ranged weapon users. and 25% damage to melee users.


Melee users do 100%(200% to rifleman who let you get that close while they hold a rifle)damage to ranged users and 50-75%(i can't decide) to other melee users.


This would give melee's a valuble edge, that still dosen't over power us. It gives us our 'chance'. A time to shine, and it EVEN makes sense. It seems realistic and everything.


Berserk- Free to use(no HAM costs)- X2 damage- apoun a succesful hit with berserk Pikeman and swordsman take30 HAM damage, and One handed sword and Tera Kasi take15. When a miss occurs, you take a SET 10 damage but your next attack comes up almost imidiatly(TKAs should only take 5 HAM damage since their next move would come up that fast anyway.


I haven't given a ton of thouht to specific numbers becouse i am at work and have a job to do. : ) And i can't really test them.


or maybe berserk could work as a, 'the more damage you take the more damage you do' kinda thing. Or be relitive to your current helth situation.


Horrible accuracy modifiers mixed with excessive HAM- When we miss we take 25% of the HAM the special would normaly cost. Simple and clean.


But this would only affect melee people, since ranged users put the same effort into a shot that misses as they do inone that hits.


Horrible range modifiers in general- if all the stuff i mentioned already gets fixed I see no reason to change the range modifers. When we become Masters we will hit more than enuff.


Range on Vibro weapons- common, we know what needs to be done to this- FIX IT. it has the range that a unarmed has, what good are area attacks that only hurt people standing on your head?


Thats all, I hope you guys will give thought to the concepts i have laid out and not flame me becosue you don't agree with specific numbers, although comments on the numbers are welocme and encoruged(i can't spell). The numbers are just to show you what i am thinking. Without testing i can not say if they are unfair or not.


Ark


XOXOXO




My vision for TKAs....
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=68040
thespiffyone
Fri Aug 15, 2003 9:31 am
#5

PWT: Thebig problem with your suggestion is that it sounds too much like the ability we know Jedis will have...deflecting/reflecting blaster shots. The devs would never go with something that would diminish the uniqueness of the Jedi.


Ark: Those mods would make Brawlers into 1-hit killers against ranged weapon users. That's acceptable if your target is prone...but otherwise 1 hit kills are never the way to go unless they take a lot of skill to pull off or are a rare lucky occurance. Nobody wants to get knocked on their arse in 1 whack. That would mean a brawler was guaranteed victory if he had the element of suprise.





Spiff de-D'ni
Rodian of Tatooine, Corbantis
Aspiring Commando
Master Marksman
Mediocre Medic

ArkMindSpear
Fri Aug 15, 2003 10:18 am
#6

But that is the only thing that would allow a brawler to win. and it is only a one hit kill MAYBE. Plus i said the numbers where just ideas. It was mostly about ratio's. And Brawlers really should get pretty close to one hit kills. Thats what weapons that cut tru your body do. Whereas blasters are not. And if you miss the first hit, arn't master, or don't do your max damage, you will loose to the marksman. That would instil fear in ranged users. ANd leave the fear in melee users. Becouse both are fully capable of winning.


I have a Long Vibro Axe. Do you have any concept of how much damage that would do to a human being(or humanoid)? A blaster wouldn't do a tenth as much devestation as that thing.


MY idea allthough ubviously in need of tinkering, I feel would restore a balace. No one is garanteed a win.


Melee's would have a prpous, as would ranged people.


I think.




My vision for TKAs....
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=68040
PWT
Fri Aug 15, 2003 11:07 am
#7

We don't necessarily need to block shots with no damage, I'm saying a defensive boost with no damage output. For example something like absorbtion bonuses, similar to armor, or a dodge bonus (but nothing on par with a jedi). Even if they make a full defense mode kinetic only it will still give us a better role in large hunting parties by increasing our ability to "Tank" large mobs. I'm not asking to take out groups of npc's at a time, and I doubt jedi's have to trade off offense for defense. This full defense mode does have a dramatic downside in that you have NO DAMAGE OUTPUT.



Siake Vace - BH / Master Ranger - Chilastra
Segavo Ire - Master Artisan / DE - Chilastra
xDarkxNightx
Fri Aug 15, 2003 3:13 pm
#8

I think you both have great ideas.



_________________________________________________________________
-Koichi Iketani, Staff Sergant Of the Rebel Forces
And proud member of the Shinobi Order.

-And may the Force be upon you.
PWT
Mon Aug 18, 2003 6:09 am
#9

I don't think increasing brawler run speed will help at all and I definitely don't think it should be made in brawler for 2 reasons, this is not like daoc where if you start as a brawler you are a brawler the whole time:

1. Marksmen will just take brawler for speed in pvp (if they haven't already for unarmed in commando or smuggler)

2. Scout has a line that is for increasing movement speed (it has its own issues, i know it does not increase flat land run speed). Since this is a multi profession system, you can take scout for terrain negotiation (assuming they fix it, the flat land run speed I know is an issue on the ranger boards, most likely the scout as well).

If we have a fix to pvp I think it needs to be something focused around combat, not movement. Somethink like more resistance to knockdown, or a full defense mode in which you can potentially dodge incoming shots or something. Movement speed is not a valuable fix for kiting, we need some way of making a marksman not want to kite us, ie. they can't hit us very well if we are in full defense mode and we are both moving, too many negatives to hit to make it a viable attack. Since the patch the only way I'm killed is if i'm knocked down, if a marksman begins to kite i stop chasing, if i have burst up i head straight for them and do a posture change or knockdown myself and proceed to beat.

Not only does the fix need to be based more on combat it needs to increase as you advance through the brawler tree so someone doesn't just need novice for its benefits. Anyway, just adding some more thoughts and consolidating an idea from another post of mine.



Siake Vace - BH / Master Ranger - Chilastra
Segavo Ire - Master Artisan / DE - Chilastra
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