Brawler Archive

This is the newly adjusted list of the Top 5 Brawler issues. The first Top 5 list that was submitted still has some issues that we would like further explain and or addressed so that we know you are still aware this is a concern of ours. Those issues that are still open and are not on this new Top 5 list are:

Previous Top 5 list outstanding issues we would appreciate comments on:

Question: Accuracy and Hitting While Moving – Brawlers receive a –5 combat to hit modifier when in optimum range. They are also the only class that can’t hit while moving.
Dev Response: There might be a problem with NPC ranges between the client and server. This is something we’ll look into.

Question: Attacks Through Geometry – Currently, brawlers are unable to use the terrain to their advantage. Mobs and NPCs just shoot through the terrain to hit them.
Dev Response: We’re fixing the terrain issue; walls should block shots in the coming update.

Ok that being stated above, this is the updated list of the Top 5 Brawler issues.

Top 5 Brawler Issues:

1. Brawler Damage, Attack Speed, Lack of Specific HAM Pool Hits.

The damage issue mostly applies to the unarmed brawler since any ability for them to up their damage was done away with when the VK cert was added and not substituted by a lower level weapon replacement. Doing 80 damage or so per swing up through Expert does not scale with what other classes at expert skill can do for damage.

All Brawlers in general suffer from very slow attacks. Brawler weapons should be on par with melee weapons for balance reasons, a pistol can do 250dmg @ 1.9 speed and the same level weapon for a Polearm or 2Hand Sword user can be 4 times as slow. Also, unarmed Brawlers being stuck with a 3-4 speed attack all the way up to expert and still only doing 80 is forcing many to use VK’s even though they are not certified for it because they do better damage and faster using an uncertified weapon they are not qualified for then using their bare fists as is intended for them.

When Brawler damage can not keep up with ranged damage, the lack of any real specific HAM pool hits really causes us to take beatings. As a Brawler, you are up close in combat; it should be considerably easier for a Brawler to hit an opponent in the head from 3 feet away standing still then a marksman to hit an opponent in the head running at full speed facing the other direction. All Brawlers should have some type of HAM pool specific hit before they go into their elite profession.

2. HAM Costs.

This still carries over from the previous list. HAM cost are still far to high compared to their usefulness and the skill costs of ranged attacks that are much easier, useful and cost far less. This also greatly affects issue 3.

3. Special Moves (Knockdown and Berserk).

A Brawler has a very hard time catching up to a kiting marksman before they get killed. There is little that can be done at the moment to keep in range due to the previous accuracy and range issues. When a Brawler does manage to get close enough to do a Knockdown on a kiting marksman, with the recent changes to Knockdown, there is no time to follow up with another attack. It takes longer to do the Knockdown animation then it does for the opponent to get up from that Knockdown. If a Brawler can get close enough to a marksman to use Knockdown, they should also receive a benefit from it. Melee Knockdowns should last longer then ranged Knockdowns and should not have the reuse time. Carbine, Rifle, Pistol and Heavy Weapon Knockdowns are all that should be affected by the timer. Not being able to follow up with quick attacks after a Knockdown also makes this a wasted skill for us. Then to mention how much Knockdowns cost our HAM pools, and you will see why Brawlers are getting killed in PvE and PvP when marksman are involved, even at close to point blank range.

Berserk and Berserk2 are another part of this. Berserk doing an additional 75 damage is not bad, it should scale more, but this is ok since it only lasts a few seconds. Berserk2 lasts 2 full minutes and during that time, you can’t do anything else, even sit down. For the insane cost of the skill and huge defense penalties to use, the added 75 points of damage is useless.

4. Movement Speed.

Most Brawlers fight in clothing and carry little more then a melee weapon. They are physically trained more then any other class, and are in peak physical condition. Why can’t they run any faster then a fat Mon Calamari businessman carry 10k units of minerals? Since Brawlers have to stay in range to attack and getting there can be so hard, special moves are all nerfed or don’t work, server/client issues, accuracy bugs, shooting through the world at us, etc, it makes sense that a Brawler should, once they are in range, be able to move faster then a opponent armed with heavy ranged weapons and armor. Maybe there should be a few small increases to base movement speed as the Brawler moves up the ranks.

5. Defense.
Brawlers are still getting creamed in fights. Dodge, block, parry, defend and other skills are still on our agenda from the last top 5 list. Also, some for of special move or posture that adds to defense is a good idea. Marksman can go prone to increase offense, what can a Brawler do to increase defense?

In addition to the new Top 5 list. Brawlers have 4 questions that they would at least like an answer and some closure on.

Questions that we would at least like a response to:

1. What is the concept, idea, vision, and general feelings of what exactly a Brawler is?
2. Where do we stand on our first top 5 list?
3. Why were Vibro Knucklers moved to Novice TKA instead of Expert Brawler and why were no lower level VK’s added?
4. Why so few damage types compared to range weapons?

Thanks you devs for giving us a way to input our feelings and concerns and I hope to hear back from you with your responses soon.

Beautiful.

I would just like to add my thoughts on one issue that didnt seem to be adressed directly. I grinded my way all the way to Master Brawler. Yes in understand it isnt too difficult but i would like some compensation for doing this. No elite professions stem from master brawler. Unlike Master Marksman. One of the best things about master brawler, that i think most will tell you, is that of Intimidate 2 and Warcry 2. After this latest patch Warcry doesnt even seem to wrok anymore. I try many times during fights and constatnly get the "This creature has resisted the effects" or something of that sort. I hope this becomes addressed because this gives us a better chance to tank in groups. As for Intimidate. It's great. Cuts damage down and helps me tank a lot better. After tha patch though i have more concerns. It rarely works. More often then not it takes me at least 4-5 times before it actually works. And if im attempting to tank anything worht while by that time im down to 100-200 health. Which forces me to heal and by the time in ready to attack the Intimidate wears off.

The KD timer is another issue that i know is talked about way too much. Ill just add my quick 2 cents. Logically it doesnt make sence. But as a game it really doesnt need to make sence it just needs to be balanced. I here alot of people talking about specific move timers, tus allowing you to chain kd moves. The only thing i think this will help is help the ranged people spam supression fire and thier various Kd. I belive that Kd was meant for the Brawler classes and shouldnt be a ranged attack. Regardless i dont think move timers are the way to go. I think we should revert back to no timer on PvE and keep timer on PvP. The only problem i would have with this is that yes KD knocks the person down but other then that what does it do? It seams that afetr the pacth creatures and players stand up instantly and barely lose any attacks. There is no five second KD or anything of that sort. It has become pointless to KD things. The other reason why i dont support the KD time in PvP is because people like to kite. Ok we have all heard the bitching about this but i find ways around it like burst running after them and spamming kd until i finally get to attack them(problems with attacking while running ). The problem that now occurs is that i can still do this but, i can only do it once, and since they dont stay knocked down im rendered useless vrs ranged opponents. And i like the fact that someone with a FULL SUIT of composite ARMOR with huge resist nearing 45% now can stand right up after being KD. No penlties to movement or anything. Just some thoughts and ideas....ok and bitching

Exquisite !

great issue list spaz.

Very consise and seems to summerize our issues to T.

yep thats a good list and tackles the major issues.

It will defintely be interesting to see what the update on the devs investigation of the -5 penalty for melees. If thats a bug fixing it would go a long way toward making melee better. Not only for better accuracy but it would also mean the server thinks the mob is in a different location than it is, which means what appears to be right on someones tail from the client perspective isn't actually where you are on the server, which could explain alot of melee frustration about being kited.

Well done!

Bee-you-tee-ful!!!

Thanks, Spaz! That is a wonderful list!

An excellent list. It is both concise and specific enough that misinterpretation is unlikely. I look forward to the devs responses.

Can we get war cry fixed while they are at it? Other than that. looks good.

Maest da wookie

3. Special Moves (Knockdown and Berserk)

bleeds please . . . if i can work my way up to a gunmen i sure would like to be able to stick em with a bleed.

remember . . . lasers CAUTERIZE, blades CUT.

"LasersCAUTERIZE, blades CUT"

ROFL so true! Remember in Star wars when luke gets his hand cut off by Darth? (lol yeah right, like you dont) It didnt bleed ....for that reason. I should think that getting a Lance shoved into your gut or an axe in your skull would bleed you like a stuck pig. Im almost master brawler and I havent really payed attention to the flaws. Im trying to enjoy the game as much as possible. Im an old Everquest player and I used to play a Paladin. Paladins, being the most short changed, screwed over, class in that game.... I complained ALL the time, NON STOP. And NOTHING ever got done. Except they got screwed more. Reading all the points youve made, I agree fully. It makes me extremely angry that cowards with guns can whoop us badly and get all these benefits. And most of them arent even logical, like the bleed thing. I plan to move on to swordsman (I wanted fencer but I hear they suck) and I hope that Swordsman dont have to deal with BS like poor brawlers. This game better have a HUGE patch or an expansion that fixes the PvP, make it more like EQ. Although I hope it doesnt remain where the rahged users own all. That would make it pointless to even fight. Can you imagine? Master swordsman vs. Master commando? Sword boy would get owned no matter how good he was. =/ I think Im done rambling for now x.x Im on the intrepid server so if anyone wants to send em a tell Id bemore than happy to make a new friend since this game seems pretty anti social lol I dont even know about raids or anything going on.

Great post i'm a swordsman and have been posting on the discussion boards everyday to hopefully get some kind of answer to this.

Here is a thread i started on the boards about the inability to hit while moving, and even when i do get within 5 meters of my target it still says i'm out of range. Hopefully this isa priority issue for them and it will be fixed soon.

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Development&message.id=517748

And here is a post i started about a change to the knockdown/posture change fix they implimented, read it and if you guys agree or like the idea please try to keep it bumped. This change i recommended would help us out greatly

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Development&message.id=476318