Brawler Archive

Thread: TOP BRAWLER ISSUES in need of Balancing

SWGBrat
Fri Jul 04, 2003 1:47 pm
#27






FluxHavoc wrote:
I'm just laughing because everyone's just jumping onto the bandwagon without putting on too much thought."and your points is...? so unarmed gets to save 800 credits on a weapon. most of them are going to spend it in the hospitals and cloning facilities now."My point? If you pay for something you'd get something better. Don't tell me you expect something that's free to be as good as something you buy for an exorborant price. What were you thinking? Without any sort of knucklers your fists will work as much as a CDEF rifle or a survival knife.You're right. Have I ever considered being an unarmed? No. I'll admit I never tried. In fact I have never bothered to even consider it, especially reading waves of unarmed pride posts, then all of a sudden all of them complaining about this and that. Why should I bother? It's too unstable.Beserk works just fine the way for me right now. That is why beserk is not the issue. It's the brawler's initial damage that's the issue. However, how do you expect your fists to do more damage than a sword, especiall being a novice? Answer that please."no. they should reduce the HAM costs of all brawler skills so that brawlers aren't killing themselves as much as they are the mobs. i don't need berserk if my other skills don't do the mobs job for them."Aye. This too. However this is not an unarmed specific issue is it.And you call me a troll? gee thanks. How very much constructive you are.





Your experience playing games is obviously limited to what you learned playing Quake...the tradeoff of "buying" a gun as compared to unarmed not having to purchase one is called RANGE you noob...the ability to put yourself at a safe distance from mob and not take any damage...it's not being able to do MORE damage.


Tell me why with an intermediate pistol skill I'm doing more damage than I am with an expert unarmed skill at a lower HAM cost...am able to choose which HAM I attack...and am doing it at the same speed and taking little to NO damage?


Anyone that brings in the whole "which do you think you hit more within real life?" debate is not only unconstructive but completely unreasonable because this isn't real life...it's a GAME...and in a GAME you need to have class balance...because if you don't and one specific class is twice as powerful than the rest...well guess what class everyone is gonna play?


This IS a unarmed specific problem simply because of the fact that WE'RE the ones doing less damage and therefore should have a lowered HAM cost...


To use your tired argument...we're using our fists and you're swinging a heavy weapon...who would get tired faster in real life?

FluxHavoc
Fri Jul 04, 2003 5:05 pm
#28

*sigh*. I'm not even gonna start flaming with you or calling trolls or anything. Really, to argue with people like you online is like the special olympics. You may win, but you're still retarded.



"Anyone that brings in the whole "which do you think you hit more within real life?" debate is not only unconstructive but completely unreasonable because this isn't real life...it's a GAME...and in a GAME you need to have class balance...because if you don't and one specific class is twice as powerful than the rest...well guess what class everyone is gonna play?"



I agree, arguments about reality are very flimsy in a game. However they have to be based on one concept or another. What if a dev suddenly said "combat medics are not good enough in combat. let's give them an ability to stick the enemy with their needles and do medium melee damage".Or how about if they needed to balance the scout because they travel too slowly so they give scouts the ability to walk on water? Or they gave all Zabraks magic because it's a balance issue? Ifthese were a fair gameplay balance and they still went ahead with it, wouldthat be a good idea?


I know these are stretched examples and they'll never come into the game, however my point still stands. Even if the game is not based off of real life (it's the star wars universe), basic ideas like physics, distances, and even research, economy, trade, bipedal/quadrupedal animals... all these ideas are grounded in real life because they are in the star wars universe.


The simple fact of not having a weapon, yet being a novice at martial arts and still being defeated by monsters or humanoids, can still be grounded from the star wars universe whether it's a game or otherwise.



By the way thanks for calling me a noob. You're just as constructive as the other guy who began calling names. Very effective for convincing somebody of your opinions. Very. *sarcasm*




Asenka Tenken, Ahazi.
Fencer.
Shadow_Walkin
Sat Jul 05, 2003 1:35 am
#29

lol wow...we're trying to be constructive about the situation you just come across as a moronic blow hard...oops was that a flame? good,the relevancy of your posts about this subject are things i'm still trying to find...you've not played the role of unarmed brawler put time in and then feel teh frustration until then keep your over opinionated mouth shut instead of trying to offer "constructive criticism" what you said effectively in your posts is shut up abotu being nerfed play your character this way it's so much better...well thanks for your opinion A-hole but until you understand where we're coming from your A-hole is where that opinions coming from


on a final note...i care less what you paid for the game i care less what you call my posts just understand it was you who decided to chime in in a inappropriate way i responded in kind as wel as a few others who didn't appreciate your jack assed comments if this is a flaming should i call you burning man?

Shadow_Walkin
Sat Jul 05, 2003 1:44 am
#30

thats verbal abuse....
Pyradius
Sat Jul 05, 2003 3:42 am
#31

My only issue with the Unarmed side of Brawling is the HAM costs on some of our moves. Please look at the success rate and cost of Intimidate and Unarmed Spin Attack 1. There are some minor tweaks that could be made elsewhere, but I believe these two abilities are the ones we need the most and are currently costing us too much.




Otrissk the Trandoshan
Teräs Käsi Master
Sinking Ranger, Rising CH
FluxHavoc
Sat Jul 05, 2003 4:03 am
#32

Sigh. Get it through your thick skull that nowhere in the thread title does it say "top unarmed brawler issue" in need of balancing. It just says top brawler issue, and it effects all brawlers alike.



Asenka Tenken, Ahazi.
Fencer.
FluxHavoc
Sat Jul 05, 2003 4:04 am
#33

Yeah. Please state examples of where I "flamed" and made "jack assed comments". Thanks.



Asenka Tenken, Ahazi.
Fencer.
Pyradius
Sat Jul 05, 2003 10:43 am
#34

Er, consider that each skill in the Brawler line is a different weapon type. There is no "universal" Brawler skill that everyone has, so I am sure you will see a wide variety of issues posted here. If more people gripe about Unarmed it's because there just might be more issues with Unarmed than with the other skill trees in the Brawler line. I have a friend who is using an Axe in the 2Hander line and he does about 500 dmg with a special attack. He is much better at soloing than I, but tends to have more downtime due to racial issues. Other than the downtime he is much more effective than me swinging for 120 dmg specials even if his swings are slower, they're not that much slower. Vibroknuckles will help towards this, but that will end up raising our HAM costs even more, which are already high as is.



Otrissk the Trandoshan
Teräs Käsi Master
Sinking Ranger, Rising CH
FluxHavoc
Sat Jul 05, 2003 12:39 pm
#35

My my... I thought I paid 15 dollars a month to avoid all the annoying kids who flame and spite all day long. Apparently I was wrong, MMOs still have these.


This is a public forum. Am I wrong to voice my opinion? Everything I say is rubbish? Excuse me? If that is so, then don't read it, or don't bother replying. It's that simple. I don't see why you have to verbally abuse me with what your high and mighty opinions of me.




Asenka Tenken, Ahazi.
Fencer.
JediMaster52086
Sat Jul 05, 2003 6:46 pm
#36

Aight us Brawlers are getting quite fed up with the unability to attack with power that should be at least equal to the range weaponeers. Personally i think brawlers should be stronger than any ranged weapon because it kinda of gives it an incentive to be a Brawler. If anyone knew what i knew about being a Brawler while i wasnoob i would of took up the Ranged Rifle Profession. And alsoI believe that when we are ganged up by more than one enemy we should have a higher damage rate compared to the amount of enemies that attack us. So if i get attacked by lets say byone Scavenger Rat i will do like 100 damage and then lets saythree more come to join there buddy on an attack i should do slightly more damage letssay around 160 damge instead of 100 damage this would make it a little fairer on our side since all enemies attack us first instead of the ranged people. Also make our attacks do more damage or give us the ability to aim at one of the HAM bars instead of a random damage on one of them.I hate the fact that a white con Vynock can be an obsticle to take out because i randomly aim at one of thier HAM bars while they pretty much pound away at my Health portion of the HAM bar. Developers u must omit that the Brawlers need alot of Maintenace done to them and that it is quite unfair to us that we get to watch beggainer rifle men take out things that us Brawlers have the most trouble destroying.
IamDaniel
Sun Jul 06, 2003 9:09 pm
#37

This is what I find wrong for brawlers in general:



1. Very high HAM cost for skills. This is especially true for weapon users like polearm or two handed swordsman, because I believe that the HAM cost for a skill is partially based on your weapon, so the larger the weapon, the more HAM it eats up. Also, when armor is put on, it further increases the cost for specials, which is fairly annoying.



2. Lack of melee and ranged defense for being the designated tank. I think we can all agree that brawlers are looked upon as tanks in this game. Being the tank that they are, their HAM pools, melee, and range defense are hardly on par. The only difference between a brawler(tank) and a marksman is a few hundred health/action, which makes absolutely no difference considering how much focused fire melee characters get in battle.



3. Skills are not pool-specific early on. While marksmans have early pool damaging skills, brawlers have to wait until their elite profession to get any specific pool hits. This makes battles last much longer, since the determining factor is your luck in hitting the same pool repeatedly. While marksmans can target specific pools over and over, we're stuck doing random hits until we get that lucky shot in.



4. Imbalance with the attack modifier in battle. This issue has been stated numerous amount of times, but I will say it again. Marksmans get a positive attack modifier when shooting in range, which is what they're for. However, brawlers get a negative attack modifer for fighting in melee, which is what they're supposed to be doing also. How this is balanced I do not know, but why must we suffer an attack penalty in melee combat, while ranged characters get a bonus for ranged combat? This is the most obvious flaw in the combat design. I am a novice swordsman, and with a heavy axe I get (-15) when I fight a mob in melee. When I snapped on a pistol and aimed at a mob from far away, I got anywhere from (+1) to (+30). I think this needs to be addressed, or at leastjustified by the Devs.

Kenshin-dono
Sun Jul 06, 2003 11:01 pm
#38

/sign on the ham cost thing, they're WAY too high, my pistol weilding friend has no skills that cost this much, the only thing i can compare it too would be surveying action cost or higher =P


although those of you unarmed i think are asking a bit much, as mentioned, you dont have to mess with weapons or anything it should be weaker than a weapon style


^_^x KD

DarksideBilly
Mon Jul 07, 2003 10:27 am
#39

All brawlers suffer from the same issues. HAM cost way too high, no defensive abilites and no useful abilities to add to a group (except as a target). All brawlers have a problem with causing damage. Most can get well-crafted weapons and weapon mods to help compensate for this, except for unarmed brawlers (who really do not have a weapon selection [still haven't seen a single vibroknuckle on my server]). By the way Squalls beat me up (little fuzzie bunnies) and I have been told several times to get a "real" weapon when grouping. This is not about unarmed brawlers getting messed up more than other brawlersbecause all are equally suffering and all brawler types desperately need help to be competitive with the other classes.
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