Brawler Archive

I'm going to let this float for another day or so, I would like to see if there are any last minute ideas. So far to me, it looks something like this.

1. Unarmed Damage (general melee speed)

2. HAM costs (still)

3. Knockdown, berzerk(recent nerfs)

4. Not enough weapons overall

5. Defense (still)

This is open to debate, please if you feel differently post just 5 lines to state your opinion just like I did above.

1. Kiting

I think that everything that can be said about this has been said. Some good solutions have been proposed with no response. In order to prove our point, the developers should try this experiment to see how unrealistic kiting is.

Step 1. Tie pieces of hard plastic ( a garbage can lid will do) to a guys , arms, leg, chest, and head.

Step 2. Give that guy a paintball gun.

Step 3.Give another guysome sweatpants,a sweatshirt, and a big stick.

Step 4. Stand the two 5m apart.

Step 5. Shout "GO".

Step 6. See how many times the guy with the paintball gunhits the guy with the stick before being knockedout.

I would guess 1 or two times max and that would be before he starts running. You can't aim a rifle with one hand while looking over your shoulder and running the other way.

2. Unarmed damage

Unarmed damage is extraordinarily low for the Master Classes. Also, by the game's standards,a bothan hits with the same force as a wookiee. Huh?

Attack speed is also way too slow. It takes longer to take aim and pull a trigger than it does to swing a fist.

3. Specials

Specials cost quite a bit, which I can live with, but the timer thing is adding insult to injury. Timers on our moves are a pointless nerf to an already weak class. If we have specials let us use them, if not take them away and buff our stats instead.

4. Special Attacks and Damage

Why do pistols cause people to bleed, but knives, swords, and axesdon't? Are allbladed weapons in SWG made of rubber? Time for another experiment in the real world.

Step 1. Go to the SOE office breakroom and get a knife from the drawer.

Step 2. Stab a co-worker in the back just below where the rib cage starts.

I believe that you will find they bleed quite copiously.

5.Fighters and Brawlershave a BIG place in Star Wars

I think that you could point out several instances, particularly in ROTJ, where hand-to-hand fighting was key. For example, Han Solo kills Boba Fett by hitting his jetpack with a staff weapon - granted it was unintentional. Don't forget the Pig Soldiers in Jabba's palace with the big axes, but maybe we didn't get to see the part where the guy with the blaster was running around them in circlesm, shooting them to bits and screaming 'I pwned u n00bs!'.

I am poking fun to a certain extent here, but these bugs are serious and deserve attention. Overall great game, let's just get the bugs fixed. The community is trying to help you, listen to us.

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Bad_Bad_Leroy wrote:

Spaz,

I'd recommend against simplifying the issues to that extent. We need to be clear as to our concerns about specific issues, not vague.

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Dude, I'm just asking you guys to be brief in this post, so I don't have to read 600 different opinions about damage. If we all agree that damage is issue1, and such and such is issue 2, etc, etc, then I can flesh it out with examples.

being able to hit while moving -- nuff said on that. its the number one problem to me, and will continue to be so untill it is fixed.

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Spaz_Hairlip wrote:

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Bad_Bad_Leroy wrote:

Spaz,

I'd recommend against simplifying the issues to that extent. We need to be clear as to our concerns about specific issues, not vague.

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Dude, I'm just asking you guys to be brief in this post, so I don't have to read 600 different opinions about damage. If we all agree that damage is issue1, and such and such is issue 2, etc, etc, then I can flesh it out with examples.

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Good point... sorry, I was just worried about submitting vague dev requests and gettnga strange offshootof what we actually wanted.

In short, then, (with an Unarmed slant as I'm not familiar with other melee issues)

1. Unarmed Damage at expert/master level


2. Lack of anypre-TKA unarmedweapons / lack of knuckler variety


3. Ineffective as player-tanks

SPAZ, YOU ROCK... that is a perfect list.

4. We never got that explanation from the devs as to what the Brawler class is meant to be (they mentioned in in the dev response to our top 5 issues)

My top issue is kiting. Why does everyone in the game run at the same speed. They need to give certain classes and races bonuses to movement speed.

Speak now about what you think should be added, and give your input. If you DON'T add input, you are NOT allowed to flame me for being a crappy correspondent

I'm going to refine my list a little bit.

New Top 5 List:

1. Brawler damage: unarmed damage, lack of HAM pools hits, and general melee speed.

2. HAM costs (still)

3. Knockdown, berzerk(recent nerfs)

4. Movement speed

5. Defense (still)

This is all open to debate, until Monday 9-8-2003, please if you feel differently post just 5 lines to state your opinion just like I did above.

Questions that we would at least like a response to:

1. What is the concept, idea, vision, and general feelings of what exactly a Brawler is?

2. Where do we stand on our first top 5 list?

3. Why were Vibro Knucklers moved to Novice TKA instead of Expert Brawler?

That is a good question to ask Leroy, I wouldn't mind hearing that answer myself.

Thanks for the hard work Spaz. I think the list is pretty complete. One "nice to have" for unarmed would be to move the vk certifcation lower down the tree like master or expert as already stated or add new "unarmed" weapons such as nun-chucks, brass knuckles (non-vibro form), spiked gloves, nekodes (those ninja claw things everyone likens to Wolverine claws), cestus, etc.

I agree with the list. It seems to better reflect the needs of the brawler community in light of the ongoing fixes togame balance issues. I also am very interested in hearing what the devs envision as a brawlers role within SWG. Good questions all.

Defense is my top concern, if the devs concept of the class is truly being the traditional MMORPG tank. This is especially true considering the recent buffs in the commando class. Right now, they are a much better tank class due to the impressive damages they can do at close range, plus the bleeding damages some of their weapons have. Raising our defense would counter that offense, and add a little niche in the game for brawlers in general as being the 'defensive' classes while the rest are offense.

Just to get the required defenses for a brawler, I am using all of my skills which is highly limited compared to the ranged classes.

My other concern is kiting, which will not be fixed by adding movement buffs. That would lead to more exploitations instead. Fixing the knockdown moves would fix this well enough, or maybe even adding in a newmaster brawlerspecial movethat would lower posture or even knock players down at a ranged distance (say, 20-40 meters distance), like a throw rock or weapon technique. Its just a thought.