Brawler Archive

If the devs aren't balancing - why has brawler been nerfedso manytimes since launch?

Akuna

PS - Anyone else think it's funny / sad that there are more dev posts on the Jedi forum than the Brawler forum?

Good post,

I disagree on one point though that brawlers, well unarmed brawlers, match up damage wise with actually any other weapon wielding class. It's just not true. Marksman and other melee can consistently outdamage me with thier base attacks nevermind the 200 a pop specials. While I'm doing 100 for my best special for alot of HAM points.

I'm not sure if this needs to be balanced quite yet as knuckles have yet to be seen. Althouhg from what I hear you kill yourself more with knuckles. Anyways I kinda think it should be this way. It should be a long tough road to a TKA where you only see your true power at the upper levels of the skill trees.

IMHO

the only thing that needs to be done to the brawler is up the defense and reduce ham pool costs or focus on one pool with a specific action like if i go berserkwould decrease themind poolwith a little action or if i use stunshould reduce my action pools

Well - It took a while to type all that up and they'vemade 2 more nerfs between the time I tested and now (berserk nerf & damage nerf). This means that things have only gotten worse.

The reason I think we need to up the damage multiplier for melee vs ranged is to offset the defensive value of kiting. It's simple math - kiting reduces damage marksmen take by 80% (because the brawler or mob can't hit them) and increases damagebrawlers & mobs receive by about the same amount (because the fights take longer).

A typicalnon-kiting fight between a brawler and a marksman looks something like:

Brawler Hits 12 times and misses 4

Marksman Hits 10 times and misses 3

With base attacks, the damage is comparable andthe outcome is unpredictable.

With special attacks, the marksman will use body hit and the brawler will use berserk. Because berserk kills all other specialmoves and hits random pools, the brawler will only hit the same pool twicein a row 1 time in nine. The marksmancan concentrate on the health pool and almost always wins.

A typical kiting fight between a brawler and a marksman looks something like:

Brawler hits5 times and misses 22 (usually opponent out of range)

Marksman hits 14 times and misses 8

It doesn't matter if they're using base attacks or specials. The brawler can not hit the marksman enough to win. The marksman never looses unless he lets the brawler get close enough to attack and even then, the marksman usually wins. If the marksman is using special attacks like body shot, the brawler will often die before they can evan land a single attack.

In both cases, the marksman can also concentrate on a single HAM poolbut the brawler can not. This shifts the odds even further in themarksmans favor.

Please note that marksmen can do the same thing to most mobs so they can take bigger mobs (worth more xp) than brawlers can with less risk.

This is not a realism issue - it is a game balance issue. In order to keep the game balanced, something has to be done to offset the HUGE advantage the marksmen gain by kiting.Nobody is saying that marksmen shouldn't be better than brawlers AT A DISTANCE. What I've proposed is that we give melee players and mobs an advantage against marksmenIN CLOSE COMBAT that would offset (balance)the effects of kiting.

It's simple math - if you increase the damage multiplier to 4x then the brawler or mob that can only hit the kiting marksman1/4 of the time does about the same amount of damage they would have if the marksman were standing still. This only works if the brawler can catch the marksman though sothere are still tactics involved.

Akuna

PS -My tests actually showed that the brawler hits land arount 1/5 of the time against kiting marksmen so 4x damage still leaves them with an advantage.

Does anyone know if the Devs even read this board? Are we all just erm... p***ing in the wind here?

AkunaTenshi has produced what imho is the basis for all the brawlers whines/probs/whateveryouwannacallthem.

*bow* AkunaTenshi

arrgh 2003 an we're playin a game with 3500folks logged into a server at one time but theres no EDIT BUTTON.

*sigh* I think ya'll understand what I was tryin to say.

agree to a p[oint to what you say but brawlers do get to attack specific pools but only when they reach elite in teras kesai i've got precision striking imagine a 800 hit point strike to the mind thats instant death for most anything so if you wanna complain about the lack of specific pools to strike build up and get to that point...or ask the devs and start a petition to eliminate the pool striking so early in the marksmans skill tree thats the only easy off set i see...but you have to remember brawlers are the minority i've seen so many marksman scouts it's not even funny so if the nerf the gun fighters theres going to be total chaos and majority rules

What the hell do you mean it should be long and hard for a brawler(the people who said that)? NOT EVERY UNARMED PLAYER IS GOING TKA.

I'm going to be a creature handler and BEFORE the nerf I was doing very nice damage for my base, and picking unarmed seemed very worth having. Now I'm doing a little more damage than a novice marksmen with a CDEF. I'm working on Expert and I'm only 1k exp away.

Your path should be worth using period. It should not be long and hard just because something else comes after it. What about smugglers? Should unarmed smugglers just suck period? What about people who just want unarmed to fight with and have another profession in mind?

With creature handler, some medic skills, and possibly BE, I have no room to go TKA. This needs to be fixed. I think the devs made a mistake nerfing brawlers at all, nothing was wrong with it, which is shown now. I went from being a dangerous opponent in duels, to a joke. People actually laugh when I ask to duel now, and I started getting incaped in duels left and right. I've only won2 of8 duels since the nerf, and the ones I did win took FOREVER...people kept kiting me or doing mind damage with 2h weapons.

How come everyone else is still doing the damage we USED to do? I don't understand why we got hit with the nerf bat to become weaker than everyone else. They do the damage I used to do. Please change it back. Make a brawler devs, test it against all of the other types(Including melee weapons), they all beat unarmed hands down.

I'm really annoyed by this, I'm thinking about changing to another weapon type, which I shouldn't have to do. Unarmed is worthless right now.

if aunarmed brawler is difficult it should be...who says you have to be a unarmed brawler for a CH? you don't so why sit here and bitch about it...it should be weaker in comparison to other brawlers and marksmandamage wise but i should hit so many times before the others that it evens out so the path f an unarmed brawler SHOULD be difficult if it's to hard for you to play go learn to use a one handed sword...gaffi sticks kick ass! the unarmed brawler just needs some tweaking it doesn't need a major overhaul...as long as the rewards are worth while...

Shadow Walkin you haven't played a brawler, go flame somewhere else.

I play an Unarmed Brawler, intending to go up the TKA line. First, while Marksman get specific pool shots, they get no abilities, such as Blind, Stun, Intimidate, Warcry. I see a lot of people rag on these abilities, but they are actually quite effective in weakening my opponents. My only issues are the HAM costs seem a bit high for intimidate and warcry, especially given the failure rate on Intimidate. Another issue I have been noticing is depending on which body part we hit of our opponent, it depletes that same pool from us. So if my Unarmed I attack hits their action pool, it depletes my action pool. If I hit their health, it takes from my health. This is kind of silly. It should take from one of our HAMs. This really sucks as a Trandoshanwhen I end up hitting my mobs action pool a lot. I tend to already get pretty low on action during a fight, so this can end up being a nail in my coffin.

No offense, but when you said you just hit berserk and go at the marksmen I kinda shook my head. We have abilities - if they need tweaking so be it, but that is where our focus should be. If you are using only Berserk, maybe you should try using our other abilities. I find them useful against PvE; though I admit I have not tried them in PvP.

Simple fix: Add Disarm as a Brawler skill. Drops their weapon into their inventory when successful. Easy enough to get around since they can hotkey their weapon to re-equip, but the turnaround time would give the Brawlers a little help. Same with NPCs, they take a second or two to switch weapons, so Disarming them should work also. Of course there will be issues with full inventory and the like, but there are always going to be balance issues - it will work itself out eventually.

Until then, as it stands now, Markmen have the advantage, and not just at range, but up close as well, and I don't think that is 'Working as Intended' (tm).