Brawler Archive

Data:

All my data was taken from web sources and has NOT all data been verified by me versus in game sources. The data matches between different web sources so I'm assuming that means it also matches the in game sources. The data gathered is for masters of each class and does NOT include the bonuses gained from becoming a Master Brawler. For the record each profession takes 92 skill points to master( this includes the 15 skill point cost of Novice Brawler ).

My original excel spreadsheet can be found at: http://www.rit.edu/~iwm7380/swg/meleebreakdown.xls
This data is also available in html format at: http://www.rit.edu/~iwm7380/swg/meleebreakdown.html

Assumptions:

These are the assumptions which I use to compare the classes. If anyone can prove, disprove, or has any evidence or experience to support or discredit these assumptions please let us know.

1. All three weapon types( 1h, 2h, polearm ) are created equally in terms of speed vs damage.

By this I mean that the best one handed weapon will do the same damage/time as the best two handed weapon and the best polearm

2. Unarmed attacks are inherently weaker therefore need more skill modifiers to be balanced.

Teras Kasi Artists Shouldn't be judged against the three other weapon types on the basis of skill points as assumption #1 does not hold true for unarmed weapons.

3. All accuracy modifiers increase their weapons accuracy identically per point.

No proof for this, but I would think that all the accuracy modifiers are used in the same calculation and therefore should affect the hit to miss ratio in the same manner. Also, each point affects the hit to miss ratio linearly (going from 0 points to 1 point gives the same increase in accuracy as going from 30 points to 31 points ).

4. All speed modifiers speed increase their weapons speed identically per point.

Same as assumption #3.

5. All toughness modifiers increase defense identically per point.

Same as assumption #3.

6. One toughness point is equivalent to one melee defense point and one ranged defense point.

Again, no proof that this is actually true, but if it makes sense that it would work in this manner.

7. Dodge, Block, and Counterattack all have the same success rate per point.

Each point affects the success ratio of the skill identically and linearly.

8. Combat Equilibrium is effectively the same as Defense vs Posture Change and is therefore a Status Defense

This may not be the case if the auto-recovery time of Combat Equilibrium is long enough to affect combat in any significant amount.

9. All Status Defenses are equally useful.

Blinding attacks, dizzy attacks, intimidation attacks, knockdown attacks, posture changing attacks, and stun attacks all occur equally in the game and are all equally debilitating.

Observations:

1. Polearm Defense is underpowered.

Polearm toughness is less than both one-handed and two-handed toughness. Since 1h and 2h each get +10 to toughness for the expert and master specializations in the brawler tree while polearm only get +4. This leads me to believe that this is a mistake and the Pikeman is supposed to get +10 to bring them in-line with the Swordsman in terms of generic defense. This is further supported by the fact that the Pikeman and Swordsman both have identical Attack Improvement modifiers. While Pikemen do get more status defense, I don't believe that +20 vs Dizzy and +5 vs Knockdown is adequate compensation for the 24 point difference in total Generic Defense.

2. Polearm Special Defense is underpowered.

Since both Fencers and Swordsmen get +25 to their special defense I think that perhaps Pikemen are supposed to get +10 to Block for the Master Polearm Defensive Techniques skill instead of +5.

3. Fencers may be overpowered.

Fencers get more Attack Improvement points than either pikemen or swordsmen and get more status defenses and an extra +10 to alertness all for only a loss of 4 total generic defense points. This may be an indication that Fencers are overpowered, but it may also be an indication that assumption #1 is false.

This is an awesome post! I can't believe you people just ignored it!!

A question about special defenses. Do they stack? If I'm a TKA and desire more defense against knockdowns, can I pick fencing and get the footwork tree to add another 40 to my defense?

Thanks!

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Ayers976 wrote:

A question about special defenses. Do they stack? If I'm a TKA and desire more defense against knockdowns, can I pick fencing and get the footwork tree to add another 40 to my defense?

Thanks!

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I think so. Logically it should, because it doesn't say like "one-handed defense" like the accuracy / speed / toughness abilities.

Can anyone else actually confirm this?

Great post, but too many assumptions. I'd like to see a lot more data on this stuff though.

i think your assumtion that fencers are overpowered and polearm are underpowered may be false. If a poleman is using his pole for defence then he would suffer the ablility to attack while a fencer would be able to defend while still being able to attack. The swordsman perhaps would be a little below a fencer in control areas Im not sure about the mods in place for these skills. Great post

[quote]
9. All Status Defenses are equally useful.

Blinding attacks, dizzy attacks, intimidation attacks, knockdown attacks, posture changing attacks, and stun attacks all occur equally in the game and are all equally debilitating.
[/quote]

I'm afraid I can't buy this at all. Blind and stun seem to have zero effect on damage taken, while intimidate has a huge effect, with warcry a noticable, but lesser one.

Simply adding up the number of bonus points is not a valid comparison. They are NOT all weighted equally.

I can not speak for the other Elite classes, but as A Fencer I assure you, we are no more overpowered than a Swordsman at the same level. I know becuase I duel all the time.

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VegitoX wrote:
I can not speak for the other Elite classes, but as A Fencer I assure you, we are no more overpowered than a Swordsman at the same level. I know becuase I duel all the time.

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What about fencers getting 70 more skill points than the pikemen and 66 more than swordsmen??

Hmmmmmm??

All good points

ather fact that needs to be considerd is how they work with other weapons. Polearm and carbineer do action/leg attacks, Swordmen and rifle do Head/mind attacks and fencer and pistols do heath/body attacks. so Polearm work well with a med range weapon, Swordmen work well with Long range weapons (winner) and fencers get the short range weapon. as a fencer/pistoleer/ranger I was to shot, trap, fancer but the mob often gets to me midway thoughusing the trap. AlsoI beleave that traps can do a lot more mibd damae the health.?.

seriously you have to look at other modifiers paul. fencers may have more skill mods but they lack the dammage dealing that a swordsman or pikeman have. look at the stats of a good ryyk blade and you find about 150 max dammage and 2.8 speed unsliced. look at a good 2 hand curved sword and you see over 220 dammage and find a speed of maybe 3.3 or less. and as a pikeman we have even higher dammage longer delay weapons but still come out about equal (if the pikeman can hit anything).

so just because a class has more skill mods dosnt always mean they are stronger or even overpowered, it normaly just means they needed it to stack up to the other professions.

There are a number of assumptions in there that are wrong.

The main one I saw is that all weapon classes are created equal in terms of damage over time. I have a master brawler and 11 boxes of pikeman. I use a long vibro axe made by a master weaponsmith. I have two Master TKA friends that use vibro knucklers (master made) and I far outdamage them in pure damage output. Once I get master pikeman I will have an additional +10 speed as well as polearm hit 3 which does amazing amounts of damage per hit (have heard reports of 3000 damage in a single hit).

Also, the state effects that various classes get plays a _huge_ part in the overall class. For example, as pikeman I get an area of effect (AOE) stun, dizzy, and knockdown hit. I have tanked an entire nest of pikets before (for those of you that don't know, they are 10k HAM creatures that hit for 200-300 with pikeman toughness and no armor). 1 nest spawns about 10-15 of them and I was swinging at the nest while fighting them so as to spawn more. But with AOE stun I didn't have to worry about missing hardly at all. And with AOE knockdown I didn't get hit again after my third swing. Given, I am also master medic with Doctor crafting IV, so the HAM hits don't hurt me hardly at all, but none the less. I know that a TKA couldn't tank what I did even with their much higher toughness, increased attack speed, and higher defenses.

-Micah

The only reason TKA couldnt match that impressive performace is due to lack of an AOE knockdown....honestly, KD is sick, but an AOE one? Thats just brutal lol