Brawler Archive
Thread: BRAWLER COMPLETELY OUTCLASSED BY PISTOL?
sorry hit enter key on title....
Anyway fought a pistoleer today in Corellia. He hit me with panic shot which made him invincible to me until he shot me to death, even though I was standing in his face with my vibroaxe out. So I complain and the guy says he'll challenge me to another duel. Well he used pistol whip on me 8 times and I wasn't able to do anything except fall down. Couldn't even swing once. He responded "well you could have won if I missed". Well the point is he didn't and there is literally no way a melee guy can do anything against that. Wondering if any of you guys have experienced this problem. Kinda bugs me when I find out another class has abilities that defeat my area of specialty while still maintaining dominance through range. Kind of a lose/lose situation I guess.
Try picturing yourself as the unarmed brawler, in a crowded cantina. You stand mere inches from someone. They go for their pistol, you can't stop them. You punch them. They hit you with the pistol and knock you down. You watch their feet. You managed to get up knockthem down. They easily get up, then turn their back to you. You can't stop them. They run. You run. They can twist their torso 180 degrees and still shoot at you. You can't hit them because you're running.
It's not quite so funny, is it?
The class isn't going to take years to fix; the devs just need to seriously commit to evening things up. There's no question about it: a well-trained brawler should destroy a ranged-weapon user in close combat.
Rifle users should be like snipers. Take a shot, then run and hide.
Carabineers are suppression fire types and should be able to hold their own.
Pistoleers should work in duels or small battles, but get cut to pieces in large-scale combat.
All three of these classes should take penalties if they try to disengage from melee-combat range, and significantly suffer penalties for firing while moving. (In the case of rifle users, they shouldn't be able to hit anything more than 5% of the time while running.)
Even at a more basic level, combat should be thus:
Ranged vs Melee users of equal skill levels
>15m - the ranged user wins 90% of the time
5-15m - the fight is about 50/50
<5m - melee fighter wins 90% of the time
I've said it before: melee classes should be able to make the ranged types fight on their terms when in close combat. Add a disarm attack, or have the knockdown attacks work and keep them down long enough to get a shot in before they pop back up to standing and shoot back again.
And for Heaven's sake: decrease the cost of our special attacks!
LOL raiders of teh lost ark.It gets better.... I'm TKA now and you rule so much more. I fought a Master Marksman right after I got knockdown. It was close. He got a good health shot on me, I started bleeding. I burst ran right behind him, knockdown. Lol, battle was pretty much over then. You could see him trying so hard to get away but I just kept slaming him on his butt. Incaped him then went into meditate and stoped bleeding about the time he got back up.
As for a brawler being able to take on someone with a gun... well, it's not that real. If someone had a gun and you had your fist. You're probably tost.
I can not recomend this yet as I'm not a master brawler and I'm still working on it, but I would also try going for master brawler so you can get your lunge 2 attack for whatever weapon you're going to be useing so you can do better in pvp.
Vodo-Kai wrote:
It gets better.... I'm TKA now and you rule so much more. I fought a Master Marksman right after I got knockdown. It was close. He got a good health shot on me, I started bleeding. I burst ran right behind him, knockdown. Lol, battle was pretty much over then. You could see him trying so hard to get away but I just kept slaming him on his butt. Incaped him then went into meditate and stoped bleeding about the time he got back up.
As for a brawler being able to take on someone with a gun... well, it's not that real. If someone had a gun and you had your fist. You're probably tost.
I can not recomend this yet as I'm not a master brawler and I'm still working on it, but I would also try going for master brawler so you can get your lunge 2 attack for whatever weapon you're going to be useing so you can do better in pvp.
I know that it gets better once you hit TK, but not everyone can afford to do that just to be near effective. I, currently working towards master unarmed, fought an artisan with only the first level of pistol skill in marksman. Granted, they were wearing full armour, but even with a few lucky unarmed lunges, some intimidation and eyepokes and headbutts up close,I lost fairly convincingly. They still had a little over 1/4 of their health left.
Granted, armed brawlers can probably fare better since (as I understand it) they can choose to hit one HAM bar, but I got soundly beaten by someone with literally 30 minutes worth of pistol skill. (I tried getting that first pistol box it two nights ago.)
Now, maybe if I had vibroknucks it would've been different, but regardless, it doesn't seem right that I, 3 boxes into a profession, using my special attacks quite skillfully, lost so easily to a person running in circles and spamming body shots.
I know we're supposed to be at a disadvantage, but I shouldn't have to master a novice profession to be able to take down a hardly-trained-in-pistol artisan.
I play both a marksman and a brawler and I would never think of attacking amarksman out in the open with my fists. If I want to win a fight I always attack on my terms. Do you attack NPCS right next to all their buddies so they can feel free to jump in? Or do you pull the npc away from his friendsso you can fight him one on one whereyou have the advantage? Brawler home turf should beinside, where your enemy has to stay with you in order to damage you.
Right now melee vs rangepvp combat is still rough, but what I think the problem is thatmost pvp occurs on theopen battlefield which is skewed to theranged combatant. Also special abilities are unbalanced right now so it just magnifies the problem. And just why does pistol get disarm but not unarmed (though i'm not sure but I heard it doesn't do anything)?
Andin reply to FOO007, I hate to say it but I think the artisan had you outclasseda fewways.First, he can target a specific pool while your unarmed attacks can go all over the place. Second, he was wearing a full set of armor, but you didn't say if you had a full set of upper body armor?
From what I understand pretty much everyonestartsequal in terms of being able to deal damage in pvp, the more skilled you are you're just faster at dealing damage and more accurate. You still deal the same damage atexpertunarmed, just you attack a bit faster. I think that the vibro knucks and someblast armor would have balanced the fight a bit more in your favor.
In fact, the inability to target specific tools until you reach your "elite" brawler class is (yet another) major drawback.
The reasons the brawler track is so hard to crawl up:
1) Since you can't target specific pools while in the Brawler track, you're effectively doing 33% less damage than a newbie Marksman who can target one pool.
2) Your fighting method requires that you be up in your target's face and nowhere else on the battlefield. Marksmen have a large circular area around their target they can choose to shoot from, and can switch targets with no time delay between them.
3) Your fighting method doesn't allow you to run while attacking, so you can't strafe.
4) The target can always become completely immune to your attacks by running away.
5) Special moves cost the HAM that you desperately need to stay alive, much less to fulfill the "tank" role. Therefore you don't get to spam special moves like the Marksmen do, and they consequently get more XP per fight than you do.
6) You have the most limited weapon choices in the game, if any choice at all (i.e.: vibroknucklers).
Those of you who scoff and say "Bah, in real lifeguns are inherently superior to melee!" should be reminded that:
1) The Teras Kasi martial art style was, canonically, designed to beat up Jedi. These aren't just guys without guns;we're talkingbona fide quasi-mystical space ninja.
2) Vibroweapons are in the game to make melee characters devastating in close quarters, and canonically are second only to lightsabers in damage potential.
3) This is aloosely "class-based" RPG, and as such combat characters of the same "level" using differing techniques should be roughly on par in terms of effectiveness. If they're not, then the game is imbalanced.
Grr! That first sentence should have read "specific pools," not "specific tools."
Though, I suppose you could target a particularly idiotic player easily enough. Or target a specific tool by doing called shots to the jimmy.
Fear the /jimmyshot3.