Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: BH/Jedi changes: why did it just start now and why all at once?
The jedi grind has always had a "easy" way to grind. There were
Rooftop healers
Geocave Killers
etc..etc...
The problem now is you have a flurry of people who just took up BH post CU, and have no idea how it used to work. They now cry that things are too hard while the long time BHs say it is easier than ever.
Same thing with Jedi. Jedi complain how hard it is now since they have to group grind and gain vis.
The fact of the matter is that each instance throughout this game has had easy parts, and hard parts.
Jedi:
Hard parts before for Jedi were Perma Death, Skill loss etc...The easy parts were 90% composite, and rooftop grinding. There are obviously more things in tehse two categories this is just a small example.
New Jedi hard parts are. Forced Vis through grouping, and not as much power as pre-CU Jedi. Easy parts are the ability to gain XP in a group very quickly.
Neither one had it any harder they just had different things that made the grind difficult.
Message Edited by Cada_Kai on 07-18-2005 02:58 PM
Message Edited by Cada_Kai on 07-18-2005 02:58 PM
Pros - No worries about XP loss once max template. Point and click grinding. 1.5 better combat template than anyone else. Depending on which trees you choose, no need for docs or dancers, they are tanks, dmg dealers, ranged, melee, never need to worry about armor decay, cloak away from death, armor break, only root for a melee class, force run, KD, and they have very nice self buffs and some very nice debuffs etc... light sabers (or savers for you 11 year olds)
BH: Con - long investigation grind, especially for us Vet MBHs that had to walk to bugged missions and 10 min shuttle times. It was easily the longest grind in the game, currently its the 2nd longest and we are only on par with all the other combat professions (which im ok with), even though the Jedi get to be 1.5 because they have the longest grind.
Must use 2 or more planets to finish just one mission, meaning no point and click grindingPros - Ability to hunt other players. Very cool looking armor, if you can find/make it, im sure it decays
. Specialty weapons like the heavy lightning canon, proton carb, scatter pistol. Depending on what you can realistically dabble in; CM, ranged root, slows, bleed, 35-80m (if you use arms), KD, nerfed bomb droids, Startle (will be nerfed)So what if the grind is longer, I dont feel that justifies 1 uber alpha class. Once you are about 190-200k you are on par with everyone else, how long does that even take of mindless grinding?
Edit:
Ok some how I clicked the wrong thread but anyway, to answer your question. I just came back and when I left Jedi had either perma death or box loss, I forget (Feb 04). The were rare because they have such a high penalty for death. I come back now and a max temp has nothing to worry about. I was ok with them being buff before but now it sticks because a max temp can run around just as I do, play in the GCW just as I do, and not worry about a thing but still can be way stronger than anyone else playing at the time. Plus their grind is way easier then when I left.
Message Edited by HyprHypo on 07-18-2005 03:30 PM
HyprHypo wrote:
Jedi: Con - XP loss which slows the grind. XP loss to BHs which slows their grind even more. Can we say time sink?
Pros - No worries about XP loss once max template. Point and click grinding. 1.5 better combat template than anyone else. Depending on which trees you choose, no need for docs or dancers, they are tanks, dmg dealers, ranged, melee, never need to worry about armor decay, cloak away from death, armor break, only root for a melee class, force run, KD, and they have very nice self buffs and some very nice debuffs etc... light sabers (or savers for you 11 year olds)
BH: Con - long investigation grind, especially for us Vet MBHs that had to walk to bugged missions and 10 min shuttle times. It was easily the longest grind in the game, currently its the 2nd longest and we are only on par with all the other combat professions (which im ok with), even though the Jedi get to be 1.5 because they have the longest grind.
Pros - Ability to hunt other players. Very cool looking armor, if you can find/make it, im sure it decays
So what if the grind is longer, I dont feel that justifies 1 uber alpha class. Once you are about 190-200k you are on par with everyone else, how long does that even take of mindless grinding?
Edit:
Ok some how I clicked the wrong thread but anyway, to answer your question. I just came back and when I left Jedi had either perma death or box loss, I forget (Feb 04). The were rare because they have such a high penalty for death. I come back now and a max temp has nothing to worry about. I was ok with them being buff before but now it sticks because a max temp can run around just as I do, play in the GCW just as I do, and not worry about a thing but still can be way stronger than anyone else playing at the time. Plus their grind is way easier then when I left.
Message Edited by HyprHypo on 07-18-2005 03:30 PM
The one uber alpha class you describe does not exist. There are compination of Jedi Professions that are harder to kill but in no way could they be considered unbeatable. Just look through this very forums, there are countless posts on how to defeate MLS/MDEF Jedi (the hardest combo to kill)
You list all teh things a Jedi can do but not one full temp can do all those things. It is about Sacrifice you get some cool powers, you dont get others. If you have them all then you have about 400 SPs.
I am a full temp padawan. I do not want to go in the negative due to the fact aht i am sure at some poitn I am going to want to Change my template, and dont want to grind out of -10mill XP to do it. Most full temps feels this way. The game is constantly evolving and it is obvious that changes toplaystyle will have to be made at one point or another.
Besides that I agree with your post. I grinded out MBH back about 1-2 months after Launch so I remember no vehicles/nonworking droids/buggd to hell missions etc..etc...
Cada_Kai wrote:
HyprHypo wrote:
Jedi: Con - XP loss which slows the grind. XP loss to BHs which slows their grind even more. Can we say time sink?
Pros - No worries about XP loss once max template. Point and click grinding. 1.5 better combat template than anyone else. Depending on which trees you choose, no need for docs or dancers, they are tanks, dmg dealers, ranged, melee, never need to worry about armor decay, cloak away from death, armor break, only root for a melee class, force run, KD, and they have very nice self buffs and some very nice debuffs etc... light sabers (or savers for you 11 year olds)
BH: Con - long investigation grind, especially for us Vet MBHs that had to walk to bugged missions and 10 min shuttle times. It was easily the longest grind in the game, currently its the 2nd longest and we are only on par with all the other combat professions (which im ok with), even though the Jedi get to be 1.5 because they have the longest grind.
Pros - Ability to hunt other players. Very cool looking armor, if you can find/make it, im sure it decays
So what if the grind is longer, I dont feel that justifies 1 uber alpha class. Once you are about 190-200k you are on par with everyone else, how long does that even take of mindless grinding?
Edit:
Ok some how I clicked the wrong thread but anyway, to answer your question. I just came back and when I left Jedi had either perma death or box loss, I forget (Feb 04). The were rare because they have such a high penalty for death. I come back now and a max temp has nothing to worry about. I was ok with them being buff before but now it sticks because a max temp can run around just as I do, play in the GCW just as I do, and not worry about a thing but still can be way stronger than anyone else playing at the time. Plus their grind is way easier then when I left.Message Edited by HyprHypo on 07-18-2005 03:30 PM
The one uber alpha class you describe does not exist. There are compination of Jedi Professions that are harder to kill but in no way could they be considered unbeatable. Just look through this very forums, there are countless posts on how to defeate MLS/MDEF Jedi (the hardest combo to kill)You list all teh things a Jedi can do but not one full temp can do all those things. It is about Sacrifice you get some cool powers, you dont get others. If you have them all then you have about 400 SPs.
I am a full temp padawan. I do not want to go in the negative due to the fact aht i am sure at some poitn I am going to want to Change my template, and dont want to grind out of -10mill XP to do it. Most full temps feels this way. The game is constantly evolving and it is obvious that changes toplaystyle will have to be made at one point or another.
Besides that I agree with your post. I grinded out MBH back about 1-2 months after Launch so I remember no vehicles/nonworking droids/buggd to hell missions etc..etc...
I know they cant get all those skills, im just saying they can get some of these skills and still dominate PVE and PVP. I can beat a full temp now using MBH MRifles pistols 0404 but its tough, very tough and they cant be good at pvp at all or im destroyed (if we have even buffs and crap). If they are AFK and macroing their MDef buffs, itll take me a while to kill them if my starle misses (which can be everytime due to their block skill, I soon run out of action. I'm not saying it can't be done but a Jedi will always have the upper hand, even with 1st strike if they run a few macros here and there.
right and isnt that hhow it is supposed to be?
Not impossible but a tough fight?
Cada_Kai wrote:right and isnt that hhow it is supposed to be?
Not impossible but a tough fight?
If the Jedi doesnt get away, the BH puts up a great fight and the Jedi screws up somehow, or gets a couple of bad rolls, then its tough and the BH might win. If things go the Jedi's way, its an easy win. If it was tough both ways all the time, then that would be fine.
And seriously, it shouldn't take all your action pool just to kill anyone that is AFK
Did the CU really change things that much? Heh... i don't think so.
I feel a common reason for it might be because "you have to group as a jedi to gain xp" and that "they are forcing visibility gain." I just dont think that this is a very good argument. You do NOT HAVE to group to gain jedi xp. By sacrificing your viz and grouping you gain faster xp, sure... This reminds me of a situation PRE-CU though.
The Warren.
Inside the Warren a jedi could get upwards of 1mil xp every 3 hrs or so. WOW. That was a lot faster than going out and doing missions solo. The only problem with is was that you knew you were putting yourself on the terms.
To me, the warren then and group grinding now are basically the same thing. Faster xp gain due to sacrificing your visibility. It is this very reason which makes me question why they impliment the BH term changes AND the "No viz from group members" fixes in the same publish.
It is too late to change things for publish 20 now, but I feel that somewhere in the future one of these two systems, no group viz or bh term change, must be reverted.