Bounty Hunter Archive

Thread: How i percieve Star Wars

Thassk
Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:57 am
#1







i felt this needed its own thread so here we go


forum member ( will remain unamed)wrote:



Star Wars have really always been about Jedi, so thats not really all that suprising. And definitely not when you have seent he comercials SOE have used to promote this game: Its about jedi too.

I dont have really anything against 9/10 going jedi.





i disagree 100% ... i hate to sound insulting but maybe for the shallow people who fail to see its true depth star wars is about jedi ... to me jedi is but one aspect .. one part of the star wars universe ...


star wars for me is about galactic empires and noble rebellions .. star fighters .. star cruisers .. battleships .. curropt galactic officials .. smugglers .. information brokers ... fringe pilots ... small fledgling outer rim planet economies .. crime lords .. bounty hunters .. asassins ... jedi whove turned from the light .. jedi who uphold the light ... mandolorians ..cantinas ... alien races ... thieves ... murderers ... " i have the death sentence on 12 systems"


swoop gangs ... space pirates ... rogue fighter pilots ... rogue pirate armadas ...organized criminal space fleets .....corporate fleets ... shipyards .. weaponsmiths... droid engineers .. famous rebel generals .. famous imperial generals ... ace pilots ... ace ground vehicle operators .... ground army general.... imperial fleet admirals .. political prisoners .... neutral zones ... neutral planets ... galactic trade .. galactic economy ... bounty hunter guilds .... slave syndicates .. slaver guilds .. pilot guilds ....


death stars ... star desroyers ... x wings .. z 95's ... a wings .. y wings .. e wings .. v wings .. tie's ... dreadnaugts ...corelliangun ships .. corvettes ...kuayt yard freighters ... medical freighters .. space stations ....docking bays ... sand planets ... ice planets .. forest planets ... sea planets ... swamp planets ... rock planets ... grasslands planets .... asteroids ... space slugs ... mynocks ... dewbacks .. banthas ...rancors .... lost data plans ... coup de tas ...bothan spies .... expert geneticists ...clone armies .... war droids ....storm troopers .... scout troopers


get into the P&P SW game ... not to play mind you but to read the original short story ... or game pack content ...fan created content .. and youll see how far the universe has the potential to go...


the movies are for the casual fans .. which lucas centers on jedi to make the $$$ .... but those who cant see past jedi .. are the shallow thinkers which run themselves into walls where this game is concerned .. because they choose instant gratification over community and vairety ... instant gratification over depth ....


without therest of the star wars world to place jedi within ...... the ships, the seedy characters, the aliens .. the planets ... the empire and rebellion ...... would jedi even be interesting? take a light saber from a jedi and what do you have? a samurai? well then take a samurais enemies away and what do you have? nothing ....


what lures us to literature and story line similar to jedi, along the lines of ancient dynamics such as bushido and samurai, are the wars they have with those that oppose them ... the ninja .. the bounty hunter ... for instance take the robbers away from a cop and robbers story what do you have? a boring egotistical jerk with a NY accent .... ( im from ny btw so no insult there)


my point is, star wars never was, and never will be justabout jedi .. ... do not think the star wars universe is but a smallpart of jedi ... ... jedi, will always be a smallpart of star wars .....

Message Edited by Thassk on 07-21-2005 12:35 PM



vThasskv
Vecasius
Thu Jul 21, 2005 8:03 am
#2

Your 100% right. So why then did i have to go Jedi just so i could grind my toon further then just the 1 week it took me to master 2 combat professions?? The way the game is set up now they might aswell put a message on the back of the box. "This game is about unlocking Jedi". I played a normal toon for 6months before going Jedi. Iv done every single combat profession and a few non combat ones (Doc/dancer/Musician). I grinded out 9/10s of the xp needed for the fs rows on NS and in the Genocaves hunting for loots not xp. But when you got the 1k ph, the RIS armour and all the credits you'll ever need. Jedi is the only challange left. And after that its pretty much back to Looting and PvP again.
iskareot
Thu Jul 21, 2005 8:08 am
#3

While this is a good post and true there is alot of aspects of Star Wars, it comes down to what is in the eye of the beholder and what they want to play and do.


Now then, if you use the word "CHOICE" , then at least you can relate to some of the issues here. Sure there is alot of aspects of Star Wars... but you have to think about , Business, Fanbase,Perspective. With all of that said, you might want to look around at what types of people or what (most) people want to be in the Star Wars Universe.


First and foremost, I don't think alot of these kids and people came to SWG to be a Chef... if you do then your fooling yourself.


Then I ask you, if you were selling this game what would you promote? Not Chef or Merchant that is for sure... its not appealing and its not eye candy. (Remember this is still a business). WHAT YOU percieve as Star Wars may not be what ALL PEOPLE think is Star Wars. SO with that said you have your answer why things are the way they are. What Market of people are they after?


I think we all agree , the movies, books and comics revolve MOSTLY around Jedi... this is a fact and that is the way it is.


How it went down in this game is not exactly the way I would have wanted it to but its a bit late for that discussion.



__________________________________________________________________
In the context of new development methods adopted within the past year by the studio responsible for Star Wars Galaxies, which a year ago saw several drastic changes to the game-world's overall experience, SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes."
NewPlayerTutorial
Thu Jul 21, 2005 8:22 am
#4

I rember this game being sold to me as: "The best story in Star Wars: Yours!" so using that sales pitch doesnt that mean SWG isnt about jedi its about me/you.



Soon will I rest, yes, forever sleep. Earned it I have. Twilight is upon me, soon night must fall.
Yoda supports euthanizing the NGE.
NeoBlaze2k3
Thu Jul 21, 2005 8:29 am
#5

Your right, this movies were made for casual viewers of star wars, they had to emphaise jedi to sell. Why? Because they were casual viewers would didn't think see Star Wars as a UNIVERSE, but only saw the lightsabers and mind tricks. With that being said, Star Wars Galaxies is a game made for (initially) for casual gamers, so why would they use the same advertisement of jedi to sell? Face it, without jedi, Star Wars would be nothing. Really? The reason why everyone watched EP3 was not for the wookiees, it was to see the Fall of the Choosen one, to see the fall of the JEDI council. The beginning of th empire was just something to kep from raising questions.



"I gave you wings for you to fly...your not taking the wings"
Thassk
Thu Jul 21, 2005 8:40 am
#6








iskareot wrote:

While this is a good post and true there is alot of aspects of Star Wars, it comes down to what is in the eye of the beholder and what they want to play and do.


Now then, if you use the word "CHOICE" , then at least you can relate to some of the issues here. Sure there is alot of aspects of Star Wars... but you have to think about , Business, Fanbase,Perspective. With all of that said, you might want to look around at what types of people or what (most) people want to be in the Star Wars Universe.


First and foremost, I don't think alot of these kids and people came to SWG to be a Chef... if you do then your fooling yourself.


Then I ask you, if you were selling this game what would you promote? Not Chef or Merchant that is for sure... its not appealing and its not eye candy. (Remember this is still a business). WHAT YOU percieve as Star Wars may not be what ALL PEOPLE think is Star Wars. SO with that said you have your answer why things are the way they are. What Market of people are they after?


I think we all agree , the movies, books and comics revolve MOSTLY around Jedi... this is a fact and that is the way it is.


How it went down in this game is not exactly the way I would have wanted it to but its a bit late for that discussion.






the thing is .. we never gave the alternative a chance ....


you ask how i would have promoted this game ... i would have promoted it as " the most in depth, immersive experience possible within the star wars world"


and emphasized community diversity and dependency on each other as its mechanics ... the key word DEPENDENCY ON EACH OTHER... no macros no afk this or that .... everyone AT the keyboard ... and everyone in their own way needed ....no power grinding


and i would have also ( as the devs did in the begining) emphasized how difficult it was to attain jedi .. and in fact made the path to jedi a random limited thing ... ANY player ...could have become jedi ... but it would be conducted like a lottery ... yoda or vader would appear ... as a mental projection ( like a ghost) to the player and instruct them to luke or ther emperorto begin training


in the begining of the game you would need to choose a religion ( not faction) whether it be dark or light ( because as we all know there are some evil rebs out there and good hearted imps)............say onlytwo players a month per server would be visited ....randomly .. his name would be pulled from the pool of names ...if the person was abusive in any way .. harassed other players ... or conducted himself in an un-jedi way he would be demoted ... and lose his force sensitivty ... one for dark .. one for light .. each month .. wed have 24 jedi on each side at this point ...


i truely believe under these conditions .. and without the constant strain on the devs to balance the alpha proffessions with the rest ... they could have created better story line and deeper content ...and this game would have been just as if not more sucessfull


i would have liked tosee harder enemies .. less power grinding ...more of a quest based system ...and a greater penatly for switching templates ( as in a massive XP debt should you choose to drop one template to grind another)


slow the game down ... but fill it with more content ...


and i truely believe its our fault as the player base ... we whine we cried we got upset we asked for this asked for that ... devs got sick of it .. and just gave in ... did whatever ... they lost their creative interest in the game .. lost their love for it .. lost their own immersion in creating a beautiful world ....


just like the majority of the people in the world today ... most of the players acted as instant gratification gluttons ... devouring whatever content was thrown there way only if it benefitted their power grinds ... ingoring any story line in place ... which in turn prompted the devs to abandoncontent ans storyline.. the players cried to level to jedi quicker and faster and easier.. and only cared about $$$ .. and jedi ... and uber weapons and armor ... hence the game evolved to its current form ... cuz we asked for this shallow world filled with hatred and confrontation....


the absence of depth is probably not even noticed by the masses .. they just started to hate the game ... become addicted to hateful PVP .. or just whined and cried till they quit ...and never understood fully why ....


and now if we dont stop this behavior we are going to ruin it for the noobs who came on board from episode III

Message Edited by Thassk on 07-21-2005 09:11 AM



vThasskv
Thassk
Thu Jul 21, 2005 8:43 am
#7















NeoBlaze2k3 wrote:

Your right, this movies were made for casual viewers of star wars, they had to emphaise jedi to sell. Why? Because they were casual viewers would didn't think see Star Wars as a UNIVERSE, but only saw the lightsabers and mind tricks. With that being said, Star Wars Galaxies is a game made for (initially) for casual gamers, so why would they use the same advertisement of jedi to sell? Face it, without jedi, Star Wars would be nothing. Really? The reason why everyone watched EP3 was not for the wookiees, it was to see the Fall of the Choosen one, to see the fall of the JEDI council. The beginning of th empire was just something to kep from raising questions.






youve missed my point entirely ... and maybe one day when this game is all jedi youll understand it .. without the whole of star wars .. without the universe jedi would suck .. would you watch a movie about a jedi running through the isles of k-mart for two hours?


p.s. you can really tell the old school fans from the new ones too .. cuz in the original trilogy there was never more than two jedi alive... and aside from a brief flirtation with an outdated obiwan .. one... only ONE jedi throughout the trilogy whowas out in the worldkicking butt ... how on earth could a trilogy be sucessfull due to ONE character? one single character?


this whole obsession with the idea of multiple jedi .. and alien jedi and varietry and different flavors of jedi came about with the new movies ... back in the day it wasa milliontimes cooler to own the AT-AT toy ... or the millenium falcon ... over the luke skywalker toy ... back in my day everyone loved boba fett and the emperor ( who we had no idea was linked to jedi or even could wield a light saber) better than luke ...


back in the day jabba ... boba fett. han solo ... lando calrissian ... all made star wars what it was .. not mark hamill...in my day HAN SOLO .. was the most popular character in star wars ...


but people are becoming more shallow with every passing year .. and a good reflection of that is how many less characters you have in the new star wars movies ... good storyline and characters replaced with droids which are dime a dozen .. put into film reel with CGI ... with no personality .. and a couple of jedi running through the whole movie slicing em apart ... no jabbas ...no landos ... no carrie fischers in hot tatooine dancing garbs ...


just a bunch of jedi in the background .. two jedi in the foreground .. and a bunch of droids being spammed at their lightsaber blades


remember that line on star wars ... where han solo is in the millenium falcon and luke is training with the saber and a blaster droid?


after the droid zaps a weak stun shot onluke's butt han walks in .. and with a codescending smirk on hisface .. lets out a laugh .. and says ..


"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."


..... and at that point you almost wanted to believe it was true ... that han with all his luck, and all his charm was just as formidable as these mysterious jedi knights ...at that point you realized no matter how powerful jedi were, that skepticism and streets smarts and that cynical laugh, were just as cool ...

Message Edited by Thassk on 07-21-2005 09:06 AM



vThasskv
NeoBlaze2k3
Thu Jul 21, 2005 9:04 am
#8


I got your point and I see what your saying. I too believe this game will be all jedi soon as wellI was merely trying to say that jedi are the selling point of the game. No offense, your first problem is your comparing the orginal trilogy to the ideas of star wars universe of today. With the new release of episodes 1-3, Stars Wars has changed completely. The newmovies were based on jedi and most of the new fans base star wars off the ep 1-3. Even though SWG is set in the time of the first 3 movies, the fans arent.



"I gave you wings for you to fly...your not taking the wings"
Eraser_BH
Thu Jul 21, 2005 10:40 am
#9


and i would have also ( as the devs did in the begining) emphasized how difficult it was to attain jedi .. and in fact made the path to jedi a random limited thing ..


You mean like this? Oh what could have been......It's too bad the PUBLISHERS decide what happens to the GCW, andthe 30 other professions now. The developers are merely puppets.


"We'll we're really keeping Jedi, the Jedi System, under wraps right now because we want Jedi to be rare and mysterious in the game. We want it to feel like it does in the movies where Jedi are kind of a rare breed. We will say that really the core of it is becoming Force Sensitive. Once you become Force Sensitive your progression through the Jedi ranks is pretty straight forward and follows a lot of the rules we've established already for some of our other skill systems. But the Force Sensitivity aspect is the thing that we're not really talking about. We do have a system in place, it takes into account a wide range of variables, it's different for every player, and no player is excluded from it, so you can't make a wrong choice when you're making up your character that will keep you from becoming a Jedi. That's not the way it works. Everybody has an equal opportunity."
Haden, XGR Interview

Your Jedi character lives in a world of constant danger, and when a Jedi dies, he's permanently dead (your other characters will respawn at a cloning facility). Jedi are also targets for NPCs and potentially other players. This will make surviving as a Jedi long enough to advance to Jedi Knight or Jedi Master status very difficult."
Haden, IGN Interview

"They will be very hard to become, and very very very rare. And we will continue to adjust the system to keep it that way. (I know, here I go tantalizing ya withuot any concrete details again... )"
Raph, Dec 2000

"Is the game going to exercise a degree of control over whether you become a Jedi? Absolutely. After all, it also exercises a degree of control over whether you become anything else in the game. Will those who wish to become Jedi be able to work towards it? Yes. Will they for sure make it? No, it is not guaranteed. But the opportunity is always there should they decide to travel that rough road. We intend to keep Jedi rare, and we will tweak the system on an ongoing basis to ensure that they stay that way (again, something we have stated before). Yes, it is our *opinion* that Jedi will be very very very rare, but we're also planning on working until they ARE because otherwise we would not be faithful to Star Wars. (And yes, we believe we can make it fun to boot). BTW, being a Jedi or Force sensitive in the time period the game is set in ain't no picnic."
Raph, April 2001


Message Edited by Eraser_BH on 07-21-2005 10:41 AM

Message Edited by Eraser_BH on 07-21-2005 10:42 AM

StoneRook1
Thu Jul 21, 2005 10:45 am
#10

Actually, Star Wars is only about one Jedi. Anakin Skywalker.


everything else happening is just background. mere paint. something to carry the story of the Rise and Fall then Rise again of Anakin Skywalker.




(as stated by GL himself)





"A great game cannot be destroyed from the outside, it can only be destroyed from the inside..."


StoneRook1
Thu Jul 21, 2005 10:48 am
#11






Eraser_BH wrote:


and i would have also ( as the devs did in the begining) emphasized how difficult it was to attain jedi .. and in fact made the path to jedi a random limited thing ..


You mean like this? Oh what could have been......It's too bad the PUBLISHERS decide what happens to the GCW, andthe 30 other professions now. The developers are merely puppets.


"We'll we're really keeping Jedi, the Jedi System, under wraps right now because we want Jedi to be rare and mysterious in the game. We want it to feel like it does in the movies where Jedi are kind of a rare breed. We will say that really the core of it is becoming Force Sensitive. Once you become Force Sensitive your progression through the Jedi ranks is pretty straight forward and follows a lot of the rules we've established already for some of our other skill systems. But the Force Sensitivity aspect is the thing that we're not really talking about. We do have a system in place, it takes into account a wide range of variables, it's different for every player, and no player is excluded from it, so you can't make a wrong choice when you're making up your character that will keep you from becoming a Jedi. That's not the way it works. Everybody has an equal opportunity."
Haden, XGR Interview

Your Jedi character lives in a world of constant danger, and when a Jedi dies, he's permanently dead (your other characters will respawn at a cloning facility). Jedi are also targets for NPCs and potentially other players. This will make surviving as a Jedi long enough to advance to Jedi Knight or Jedi Master status very difficult."
Haden, IGN Interview

"They will be very hard to become, and very very very rare. And we will continue to adjust the system to keep it that way. (I know, here I go tantalizing ya withuot any concrete details again... )"
Raph, Dec 2000

"Is the game going to exercise a degree of control over whether you become a Jedi? Absolutely. After all, it also exercises a degree of control over whether you become anything else in the game. Will those who wish to become Jedi be able to work towards it? Yes. Will they for sure make it? No, it is not guaranteed. But the opportunity is always there should they decide to travel that rough road. We intend to keep Jedi rare, and we will tweak the system on an ongoing basis to ensure that they stay that way (again, something we have stated before). Yes, it is our *opinion* that Jedi will be very very very rare, but we're also planning on working until they ARE because otherwise we would not be faithful to Star Wars. (And yes, we believe we can make it fun to boot). BTW, being a Jedi or Force sensitive in the time period the game is set in ain't no picnic."
Raph, April 2001


Message Edited by Eraser_BH on 07-21-2005 10:41 AM


Message Edited by Eraser_BH on 07-21-2005 10:42 AM





You guys that post these are missing the ones where they also said a Jedi Master could take on 10 or so elite master professions.


But your only one-sighted to what you want. As long as it matches what your thinking.





"A great game cannot be destroyed from the outside, it can only be destroyed from the inside..."


Thassk
Thu Jul 21, 2005 11:51 am
#12


Message Edited by Thassk on 07-21-2005 11:52 AM



vThasskv
syykodisco
Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:15 am
#13


You have to be kidding. I, as many others think of jedi when we think star wars. I was in no big hurry to become a jedi, but it was my goal back when I started playing almost 2 years ago. This is a game and does not reflect the movies, yeah the storyline was based off the movies.. but think of an alterante universe. That is what swg is, it is our experience and our experiences will change the story to paralell the movies.. kind like how would the world tun out if I died now, or if I became a millionair..how would it effect the world. To say that there should only be 24 jedi on each server after 2 years of playing is ridiculous. Myself and many others that have played so many different professions would probably not even started playing swg.



I do agree that there could be alot more stuff in the game to take alot of the focus on jedi, but I still feel that anyone.. not just a random few should be able to be a jedi if they want. This game could have had alot more content added. Vehicles for combat, even more types of armor, more ships, more weapons you name it.. and it could have been added some how. I have to remind you that this game is only 2 years old, so something has got to be saved for its older age (look at how long EQ has been online). Your ideas of the Star Wars Universe is not the same as everyone else, and jedi is a HUGE part of star wars (and I agree that its not everything). But the complete series revolves around the light side and dark side of the force, which involves jedi. Jedi are the focal point of the story. I have only seen 2 star wars movies and no book that wasn't about jedi in one way shape or form, and those 2 movies where the Ewok movies (they are on DVD now) that played on TV only back in the mid 80's.




Syyko Disco
Dark Jedi Outcast
Legend of a New Republic
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Killing All The Imps
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