CUEmu - Thread Posts

Xaleor

Sun May 15, 2005 8:50 pm

Just so everybody knows, this post isn't about how to kill a jedi... it's how to determine if you CAN actually kill a certain jedi.

A couple things, first off...

Pretty much all jedi are level 80, so they have about 3k health... either from their normal combat profs + jedi, or just jedi profs. You can tell how many jedi points they have by the cost of their mission.

All right now a full template double master has 6850 force max and 63 force regen. If he's wearing robes this goes up to 7100, and 73 force regen.

73 force regen comes out to 7.3 force points regained per second.

Assume everybody has channel force... channel force can stack, and loses about 300 health and gains about 300 force for each use. The health goes back up to max after 3 minutes, so they regain 8 health per second. This means that every channel a jedi is willing to stack gives him an extra 1.67 force per second.

If a jedi isn't laggy, it's safe to stack about 4 channels... which leaves you at between 1800-2100 health without buffs. This way you can wait to get down to your lowest health level, and bring it back up with advanced heal. This equates to a 6.67 force regen.

If a jedi is buffed (with health crystal), they can stack an extra 7 channels, leaving them between 1700 and 2000 health. This equates to a 18.33 force per second regen rate.

Healing requires 1 force point/10 damage. Improved Infusion heals 62.5 damage per second and costs about 0.2 force per second.

Most padawans get ls 4 (any branch), heal 3000, and enhance 0002 first... and if they don't, they should.

The only way to kill a jedi is to get his force down to nothing. While this isn't actually true, as last ditch can sometimes outgun a jedi's healing ability, it is mostly true. If you're not willing to risk your own death, you gotta drop a jedi's force.

Ok, now, I'm doing a couple of cases. I'm assuming double mastery, full template for all the jedi. The final number is the amount of dps your attacks must counter to drop his force.

1) no channeling... only has healing and improved infusion: 62.5dps for improved infusion + 61 dps for healing ability (with regular regen) = 123.5 dps

2) no channeling... wears robes and has healing and improved infusion: 62.5 dps for improved infusion + 71 dps for healing ability = 133.5 dps

3) channels with normal ham, no robes: 62.5 dps for improved infusion + 61 dps for healing (force regen) + 66.7 dps for healing (channel) = 190.2 dps

4) channels with normal ham, and robes: 62.5 dps for improved infusion + 71 dps for healing (force regen) + 66.7 dps for healing (channel) = 200.2 dps

5) channels with health buff, no robes: 62.5 dps for imp infusion + 61 dps for healing (force regen) + 183 dps for healing (channel) = 306.5 dps

6) channels with health buff, robes: 62.5 dps for improved infusion + 71 dps for healing (force regen) +183 dps for healing (channel) = 316.5 dps

So if you don't do that much damage per second to a jedi, then you're outta luck. No use fighting him... the answer is root and run... get help... do whatever you gotta do. And that's why it's so hard to beat full template jedi's... they heal too darn quick, and if they're force runs down, they have a looooong time to decide to run away and fight another day.

Part 2: publishes 19 and 20

As everyone knows by now, these two publishes have added mind cost to a jedi's healing, which means, there's another variable that limits how quickly a jedi can heal. I'm basing this off the same assumptions as before with the following extra bit of information:

Channel force takes 17% action and 18% mind to use.

Force heal takes 9% mind to use. Force infusion takes 12% mind to use.

Mind regens at 1% per second while in combat. Action regens at 3% per second while in combat.

These values may not be the same for everyone, but they are the rates and costs for a human with +200 action/mind regen food and +20% actoin/mind regen spice. I know it can get up to 250, but most people don't use that much, in my experience. I have no idea if total mind/action pool and rates differ between species, and, if so, by how much. Also, since action regens so much faster, and the cost for heals in action is negligible, I'm completely ignoring them... mind will be the limiting factor out of the two.

Health / %mind:

Force heal = 1500 damage / 9% = 166.67 health/%

Force infusion= 3000 damage / 12% = 250 health/%

%mind / time:

Force infusion = 12% / 48 sec = .25% / sec

max %mind / time:

Force heal = 9% / 6 sec = 1.5% / sec

Channel Force = 18% / 6 sec = 3% / sec

Damage healed with force heal to keep mind steady:

Damage = 166.67 health/% / .75%/sec (mind regen left over) = 222.22 dps

Max damage healed based on mind:

Damage = 62.5dps (from force infusion) + 222.22dps (from force heal) = 284.72 dps

Therefore, if you can do more than this amount of damage, you can drain a jedi's mind, which kills him as well as draining force does. Also, realize that this only is the case if the jedi uses no specials. If they use specials, their mind will drain much faster.

Conclusion: Jedi are easier to kill now. As a side note, the numbers I've used are the actual numbers, and the values are good through publish 20. I would have updated it sooner, if I'd known I'd been stickified, but didn't realize it until today.

Message Edited by Xaleor on 07-19-2005 08:47 PM

Happiness isn't happiness without a violin playing goat.

Tarantella Syn

FeD_x

Sun May 15, 2005 8:56 pm

#2

damn nice post...are those the actually numbers? is there anyway u can test this and get back to us?

~REBHUNTER~syclla
lost in the cu

Caelrie

Sun May 15, 2005 9:00 pm

#3

Those numbers don't take dodge, block and innate armor into account. For most higher level Jedi, you'd need to do 4 or 5 times that DPS to stay ahead of the healing.

Nathanielstarr

Sun May 15, 2005 9:08 pm

#4

You need to take into account the fact that they can use regular stims as well. Stims that heal over 1200 damage are very common.

I've fought jedi and while I do 496dps with my scatter I simply cannot do enough damage to make a difference.

lifeisdeath

Sun May 15, 2005 9:43 pm

#5

Nathanielstarr wrote:
You need to take into account the fact that they can use regular stims as well. Stims that heal over 1200 damage are very common.

I've fought jedi and while I do 496dps with my scatter I simply cannot do enough damage to make a difference.

why not? jedi are soo weak now.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jedi; you want respect, but you haven't done a thing to earn it.

smoke13

Sun May 15, 2005 9:47 pm

#6

another fact you need to keep in mind, the health loss from channel is not healable

it actually reduces the max amount for the set period of time, the only way it can heal is time

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Pawnbroker-DC

Sun May 15, 2005 10:03 pm

#7

no the health loss from channel is healable it is the action loss that is not....when i was grinding solo for awhile i would channel and heal so i could kill mobs faster than once every 5min

Pawnbroker Level 60 Paladin CANCELLED IN SWG

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heapum

Sun May 15, 2005 10:14 pm

#8

Very nice post on calculating the values and DPS needed to take a jedi out. The only prob I see with relying on this method to calculate if its possible to drop a jjedi is timing. A jedi who know their template well can canuse channel force almost indefenently to keep their force power up and their health at a decent level to tank the damage. Its also not factoring in the use of a holocron and the use of cloak or forcerun to break combat to buy timeand regen. If the jedi starts runnin and gets out of range before you can stack roots expect to see all of your hard work go down the toilet since they can force channel while on the run. Expect them to have a second wind when you find them.

Hnglka

Sun May 15, 2005 11:08 pm

#9

Pawnbroker-DC wrote:
no the health loss from channel is healable it is the action loss that is not....when i was grinding solo for awhile i would channel and heal so i could kill mobs faster than once every 5min

you are totally incorrect. each channel reduces max health by about 300. this health is only regnerated with time. No healing ability will restore the max health number. Do a CTRL+C and watch your health stats as you channel and you will see this to be fact.

It is a valid BH tactic to watch for channels then increase the tempo of higher damage specials to take advantage of this vulnerability.

Hnglka - Wookiee Jedi, Intrepid
M'ack- ~~MBH/MC~~ Medic, Intrepid
Meklor- ~~Crafter of Biowares~~ Trader, Intrepid

Gawzeera

Mon May 16, 2005 1:55 am

#10

lifeisdeath wrote:

Nathanielstarr wrote:

You need to take into account the fact that they can use regular stims as well. Stims that heal over 1200 damage are very common.

I've fought jedi and while I do 496dps with my scatter I simply cannot do enough damage to make a difference.

why not? jedi are soo weak now.

not sure what jedi you have been fighting against but every jedi i have been up against has handed me my sack.

I have a guild mate who beats most jedi(except the full templates) in duels. but we came across an overt the other day who was near impossible to kill, I'm master carbs/MBH, novice smuggler. the energy protection on my armour is 5347.my guildie is full melee template and uses one of the nastiest PH's I have ever seen. this jedi had the initiate title up. and he gave us a severe beat down.

I kept him rooted, snared,bleeding and kept KD'ing him as often as possible, everytime hitting him with advanced crit shot. I was outside of saber throw range and was using my proton carbine. and this jedi never went below half health. after he DB'ed us he simply ran to his house nearby and stayed there.

to the OP, you also need to take into consideration PSG's and food.

"Jedi. Their order is a fading light in the dark. corrupt and arrogant.They must be punished." - Asaj Ventress Clone wars Micro series

Xaleor

Tue Jul 19, 2005 5:56 pm

#11

Updated

Happiness isn't happiness without a violin playing goat.

Tarantella Syn

Bounty Hunter Archive

Thread: How to outdamage a Jedi's healing ability.