Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: New action and mind costs on healing...
BufordT_Justice
Fri Oct 07, 2005 2:25 pm
#27
I can see alot of 4xxx CM's falling off the map and a more brute force zerg rush style templete(s) coming to life. Instead of trying to drain Jedi Force down (or mind) trying to alpha and be done. Long gone are the days of 25+ min fights (of any fun anyway, unless fun to you is seeing --TOO TIRED-- )
MBH, MRfiles, xxx3 Pistols (with either xx2x medic or master marksman)will become the more favored templete I think. Keep the jedi out of range while pumping out dmg and trying to run him out of Action 1st, Mind 2nd, and then Health 3rd.. force won't even play a factor anymore.
Although with things costing more Action now, CM debuffs (along with Jedi Sap) just got a boost.
Grieving the forums, more fun than playing the game
And it loads faster too!
Traal_
Sat Oct 08, 2005 12:08 am
#28
GlargTheKelfn wrote:
KRAKEN666 wrote:
how is this going to effect you?
combine that with the new npc ai (3k force choke FTW) and players just took a big nerf bat to the ........ tender spot
I missed it - which npc has a 3k force choke?
battosai20
Sat Oct 08, 2005 12:30 am
#29
bmill wrote:And we move back to the Pre-CU era.... whoever controls the mind, owns you.
That was the recipie for PvP success before.... whack the mind, can't heal it. That seems to be what it will be now. But I guess it's not sooooooo bad. Should lend to help with argued "overpoweredness" of MCMs, but it sucks for them.
Well this is actually incorrect here are the way I see things:
- Pre-CU every migrated their stats to have less mind, and people were using that because you could incap people when their mind ran out by using target shots "I.E. - Eyeshot spam".
- I saw this coming with everyone zerging to the FOTM CM/MBH it was bound to happen, now a new zerg temp will be found and everyone will switch to that. Wash, rinse, repeat.
- Weaponsmiths, smugglers, chefs, and armorsmiths just got richer, SAC capped guns are going to be more in demand, and food is going to play an even bigger role. Before you could overcome sub-par equipment with a good healing temp, now you need to get the best stuff.
- This is a pre-cursor to Pre-CU pearls getting "toned down" or "nerfed" whatever you want to call it.
- The only thing that is going to change regarding fighting Jedi will be, the fights will last a heck of a lot longer, and you will have to be good at mixing up your shots, heals, and kiting strategy.
- 1300 heal stims just went up in price.
- Buffs are much more important, luckily doctors are AFK for the most part, and don't care how much you tip them.
- Medical efficiency taps just went up in price.
- Mind Buff Crystals just doubled in price. (Quest reward from the village.)
It's not a bad change for most professions, combat medics took it on the chin because that's what everyone is now a days. If you have played this game long enough you know this is how the DEVS lower the numbers of a certain temp when it gets to popular. Remember the insane dodge mods that used to make MTKA/Mfencer nearly unbeatable a while back. All the Jedi were changing their temps to Anti-CM temps anyway. One place it did give Jedi more of an advantage is if they use their SAP skill on your action bar to slow your regen rate.
But this is a point that has to be made, I hear on this board all the time how BH's don't win by brute force, but by cunning and catching their mark off gaurd (knee deep in pickets), so if you are truly stalking your mark and pick the right time to engage you can avoid a 30 minute fight.
freedomwarrior
Sat Oct 08, 2005 12:49 am
#30
RebMBH wrote:
Just outa curiosity, do jedi heals have an action cost or just mind and force?
Not crying nerf or anything just wondering because I am not familiar with the different HAM and Force cost on jedi specials.
It had a very small affect on action, 10% to 12% on the mind and 5% of jedi force to heal.
blademaster30
Sat Oct 08, 2005 12:49 am
#31
StormTroopercpt0 wrote:
Pathetic , Looks like jedi got what they want , To nerf all professions and only be the 'superior' one because of the 'force'...
Grinding alot of XP doesn't mean you should have the upperhand in everything.
Gee what will they complain about next? Commandos? Smugglers? .... Chefs?
Oh wait i forgot they alredy did!?
are jedi not 1.5X better
bmill
Sat Oct 08, 2005 12:52 am
#32
Actually..... I migrated my stats to have FULL mind and only 400 on the other stats. With the insance Doc buffs, we couldn't be damaged anyway by PvE, and with good armor/foods it was the same in PvP
battosai20 wrote:
bmill wrote:
And we move back to the Pre-CU era.... whoever controls the mind, owns you.
That was the recipie for PvP success before.... whack the mind, can't heal it. That seems to be what it will be now. But I guess it's not sooooooo bad. Should lend to help with argued "overpoweredness" of MCMs, but it sucks for them.
Well this is actually incorrect here are the way I see things:
- Pre-CU every migrated their stats to have less mind, and people were using that because you could incap people when their mind ran out by using target shots "I.E. - Eyeshot spam".
KRAKEN666
Mon Oct 10, 2005 4:34 am
#33
so, you guys think this is a hard hit for mcm/bh and mcm/docs?
Alixir
Mon Oct 10, 2005 4:47 am
#34
Orthell wrote:
KRAKEN666 wrote:
how is this going to effect you?
15% action cost on healing, well my cm4000 skills just took a blow. No more endless weapon and heal spamming.
bout time tbh
Karbal
Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:59 am
#35
freedomwarrior wrote:
RebMBH wrote:
Just outa curiosity, do jedi heals have an action cost or just mind and force?
Not crying nerf or anything just wondering because I am not familiar with the different HAM and Force cost on jedi specials.
It had a very small affect on action, 10% to 12% on the mind and 5% of jedi force to heal.
IN RED IS WHERE THE PROBLEM IS GONNA BE!! Every non Jedi healing template is going to suffer from this stealth nerf. Lets break it down for all you folks thinking this new nerf is "a ok" ...
- Most, not all, but most bh's out there DO hunt Jedi.
- Most, not all, but most bh's out there have CM 4000 or MCM in their template.
- The reason most bh's have CM is to counter the healing of their Jedi targets .. if you've ever fought a full template Jedi you will understand why it is paramount to heal.
- This created a so called "balance" in effect. A poor tactic bh (with healing) is still gonna get smoked by a Jedi. A good tactic bh (with healing) has a VERY good chance to pull out a win.
- A full template Jedi with a good knowledge of his skills and pvp will still smoke that same good tactic bh. This makes for a very sound theroy of 1.5X stronger than any other profession. Reasonable. The stealthy bh who waits for the right moment, has good equipment, good pvp knowledge, and HEALING has a very good chance to pull it off.
- Now lets nerf the healing. Action costs as high as 20% for bacta spray. Any good bh will tell you that his action is his life's blood .. no action means no attacking. That same good tactic bh is now extremley limited on his healing .. but his opponent is NOT. The balance has just been broken.
- How long did fights take you WITH your healing skills? 15 minutes? 20 minutes? Why? I'll tell you why. Because Jedi HEAL too! A Jedi with no healing in his template is a tool! They all have the healing line .. or some form of it. They also can use stims and ruby .. just like us. Do you think that same fight is now gonna take you 15 to 20 minutes after the nerf? No .. cause you'll be dead. Why? Because you can't heal and your opponent can! Well you can heal, but say goodbye to attacking. Do you think your opponent can still attack you? Yes. Why? Because his healing IS NOT costing him outragous action points.
- Is this right? Do you still think that CM's and Doc's should have a huge action cost with their healing .. but Jedi healing should remain as is?
I'm all for bringing healing back into line, but ACCROSS THE BOARD! ALL healers should be affected by this .. yes, even Jedi healers.
GlargTheKelfn
Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:01 am
#36
KRAKEN666 wrote:
so, you guys think this is a hard hit for mcm/bh and mcm/docs?
the real cm nerf is to snares & roots. hit the pist boards.
everything levle 80ish now is resistant to snares / roots , or has a high resist to them. wonder what else doesn't work on the 'NEW AI'
alphawolf100
Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:10 am
#37
Karbal wrote:
freedomwarrior wrote:
RebMBH wrote:
Just outa curiosity, do jedi heals have an action cost or just mind and force?
Not crying nerf or anything just wondering because I am not familiar with the different HAM and Force cost on jedi specials.
It had a very small affect on action, 10% to 12% on the mind and 5% of jedi force to heal.
IN RED IS WHERE THE PROBLEM IS GONNA BE!! Every non Jedi healing template is going to suffer from this stealth nerf. Lets break it down for all you folks thinking this new nerf is "a ok" ...
- Most, not all, but most bh's out there DO hunt Jedi.
- Most, not all, but most bh's out there have CM 4000 or MCM in their template.
- The reason most bh's have CM is to counter the healing of their Jedi targets .. if you've ever fought a full template Jedi you will understand why it is paramount to heal.
- This created a so called "balance" in effect. A poor tactic bh (with healing) is still gonna get smoked by a Jedi. A good tactic bh (with healing) has a VERY good chance to pull out a win.
- A full template Jedi with a good knowledge of his skills and pvp will still smoke that same good tactic bh. This makes for a very sound theroy of 1.5X stronger than any other profession. Reasonable. The stealthy bh who waits for the right moment, has good equipment, good pvp knowledge, and HEALING has a very good chance to pull it off.
- Now lets nerf the healing. Action costs as high as 20% for bacta spray. Any good bh will tell you that his action is his life's blood .. no action means no attacking. That same good tactic bh is now extremley limited on his healing .. but his opponent is NOT. The balance has just been broken.
- How long did fights take you WITH your healing skills? 15 minutes? 20 minutes? Why? I'll tell you why. Because Jedi HEAL too! A Jedi with no healing in his template is a tool! They all have the healing line .. or some form of it. They also can use stims and ruby .. just like us. Do you think that same fight is now gonna take you 15 to 20 minutes after the nerf? No .. cause you'll be dead. Why? Because you can't heal and your opponent can! Well you can heal, but say goodbye to attacking. Do you think your opponent can still attack you? Yes. Why? Because his healing IS NOT costing him outragous action points.
- Is this right? Do you still think that CM's and Doc's should have a huge action cost with their healing .. but Jedi healing should remain as is?
I'm all for bringing healing back into line, but ACCROSS THE BOARD! ALL healers should be affected by this .. yes, even Jedi healers.
If, and i mean IF because i havn't read of any jedi testing healing on TC, Jedi don't have the increase in action it's balanced by the Force Cost. It takes 5% of a pool that if completely drained can take about 20 min to regen if you have the max regen of a double master plus 2 tier 4 boxes. Sitting or not. How long does your action take to regen to full if you're standing, and Sapped? 30 seconds? Now throw on top of that the ability to get your action regen: Doc Buffed, fooded and increased by sitting. This isn't as outrageous as you guys make it out to be. You're upset because Action is your lifes blood. Well a jedi's life blood is 3 different Support pools. all being used at once. just to manage the red one on top.
in your #6 you're making the arguement that BH will run out of action and that's bad! But don't 95% of the BH vs. Jedi encounters just try to run the jedi out of mind or force? So it's ok for 1 party to run out of a pool but not the other? even if the pool regens the fastest out of any?
Why shouldn't Bacta Spray have a high cost considering it's a skill that can in effect heal 2 full groups plusif close enough together. remember Spray isn't a BH move even if it's used so much in a BH encounter. you're using an action designed to heal many to heal 1. it's a waste of action yes.
freedomwarrior
Mon Oct 10, 2005 9:29 am
#38
Karbal wrote:
freedomwarrior wrote:
RebMBH wrote:
Just outa curiosity, do jedi heals have an action cost or just mind and force?
Not crying nerf or anything just wondering because I am not familiar with the different HAM and Force cost on jedi specials.
It had a very small affect on action, 10% to 12% on the mind and 5% of jedi force to heal.
IN RED IS WHERE THE PROBLEM IS GONNA BE!! Every non Jedi healing template is going to suffer from this stealth nerf. Lets break it down for all you folks thinking this new nerf is "a ok" ...
- Most, not all, but most bh's out there DO hunt Jedi.
- Most, not all, but most bh's out there have CM 4000 or MCM in their template.
- The reason most bh's have CM is to counter the healing of their Jedi targets .. if you've ever fought a full template Jedi you will understand why it is paramount to heal.
- This created a so called "balance" in effect. A poor tactic bh (with healing) is still gonna get smoked by a Jedi. A good tactic bh (with healing) has a VERY good chance to pull out a win.
- A full template Jedi with a good knowledge of his skills and pvp will still smoke that same good tactic bh. This makes for a very sound theroy of 1.5X stronger than any other profession. Reasonable. The stealthy bh who waits for the right moment, has good equipment, good pvp knowledge, and HEALING has a very good chance to pull it off.
- Now lets nerf the healing. Action costs as high as 20% for bacta spray. Any good bh will tell you that his action is his life's blood .. no action means no attacking. That same good tactic bh is now extremley limited on his healing .. but his opponent is NOT. The balance has just been broken.
- How long did fights take you WITH your healing skills? 15 minutes? 20 minutes? Why? I'll tell you why. Because Jedi HEAL too! A Jedi with no healing in his template is a tool! They all have the healing line .. or some form of it. They also can use stims and ruby .. just like us. Do you think that same fight is now gonna take you 15 to 20 minutes after the nerf? No .. cause you'll be dead. Why? Because you can't heal and your opponent can! Well you can heal, but say goodbye to attacking. Do you think your opponent can still attack you? Yes. Why? Because his healing IS NOT costing him outragous action points.
- Is this right? Do you still think that CM's and Doc's should have a huge action cost with their healing .. but Jedi healing should remain as is?
I'm all for bringing healing back into line, but ACCROSS THE BOARD! ALL healers should be affected by this .. yes, even Jedi healers.
First of all mate, I was responding to his question, not defending any form of nerfs. Nerfs are bad for the community as a whole. But, if soe is gonna nerf it, then at least this now will equal out to what jedi have faced since our healing tree was nerfed. Dont get me wrong, the jedi healing tree was overpowering in the old form. Now we have to watch it, but then comes along the MCM heals thatare just as bad as the old jedi healing skills were. This I guess is soe's way of bringing the 2 heal trees more equal. In addition, im not sure why you are complaining too much, as your heal timer is still 3 seconds, you can still wear 75% AB armor, and have stims which should more than allow your action bar to heal up.
Force regen has been broken for sometime, and is just now getting addressed. My force cant get any buffs to regen itself back faster unlike action. All I see this doing now, is making the BH player have to actually manage his action tree/mind trees a little better.
MolemanMole
Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:58 am
#39
I think this is totally crap. You dont fix something by breaking something else. Specially after everybody is getting used to this. They are screwing with this game to much. Im sure, more mind costs and action costs for sticking a needle in your arm or throwing some bacta blob over your head. Come on now how much action and mind does that take. Jedi use the force to heal themselves which is likedrummingpower up from anywhere. Take away action so you cant use your specials, then try to burst run to save your self. Crap i say. This really messes with PvP where one last heal might mean life or death. Come on we are talking about sticking a needle in our are!