Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: My thoughts on the CU considering PVP
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asciiadam
Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:49 pm
#14
Josth wrote:
Zulac-Chimaera wrote:
ok i was typing abit to fast and maybe should type correctly and use are instead of r. was just saying that a fully templated jedi should not be able to be killed by a full templated bh thats all.
Why is that? I have never heard a good argument. BesidesI could also make the argument that there should only be a FEW fully templatedJedi. I mean seriously... you want this, we need to go back to the time when you would lose all of your powers when you died.
Crap, crap, crap, crap, crap. I just finished grinding bh from 0 xp. Took me 2 days of about 6 hours a day. That is why a full template BH should not be able to kill a full template jedi. ATM i don't see any reason that a full template jedi should ever die to a full template BH unless they are a powers jedi. My bud has an ok saber and he beat a full temp BH in under 5 min. That is the way it should be. I think a lot of the crying jedi out there just don't want to put in the time to find the good pearls and learn there template. My bud got all his pearls post CU, and he does well with them. You just have to get out there and loot.
Thassk
Fri Aug 12, 2005 3:43 pm
#15
SpunkyKuma wrote:
When the CU first went live, most fights 1 on 1 lasted 5-20 seconds, then people started to discover the ultimate food/spice stacking pushing their health up to 12K+ making it impossible to beat. That got fixed, several balance passes between professions including BH and Jedi (LOTS on Jedi), FOTM grows more popular (MLS/MDef). When publish 20 first went live, my first 10 missions were very quick fights, even killed 3 knights but as time went by and publish 21 came along, fights seem to be taking forever between a BH and Jedi or even some Jedi vs Jedi- I have yet to have a fight shorter than 20 minutes vs most Jedi now.
This is getting old very quickly, my longest fight against a Jedi was close to 60 minutes favoring on my victory (armor lost roughly 30K condition), another one that ended in a draw after 20+ minutes, another lasting 30+ minutes. As a growing number of BHs with a suit of armor sliced for armorbreak reduction, damage/speed sliced double-capped weapons, ultimate food/spice combo, instant stims and very commonly the FOTM template vs growing number of Jedi with weak lightsabers, ultimate food/spice combo, limited force, delayed heals, and inability to run into a building. In my view, Jedi is gradually getting weaker by the day, resulting in most fights getting longer and longer.
What is wrong with this? This was what the balance is in the devs mind?
I really really miss the old system, I really do.
well, as time moves on, things change. The focus here is on the jedi/BH system.
jedi have quickly become the most popular profession, soon you will have more jedi on your server ( it might already be this way) than you do any other single profession, as in more jedi than say a commando or more jedi than a rifleman. And in time ... there might even be more jedi charactersplaying at any given time, than all of the regular professions combined.
because of this, they( the devs )will eventually balance jedito be 1 = 1 with everyone else, or let jedicontain slight advantages that other more experienced players in PVP can easily overcome.
now this may bother some people who have gone jedi. But i ask you to remember this. think of what the very original jedi are thinking, and nerfs they had to endure.
the fact that most players were drawn tothe Jedi profession, and asked Devs to make it more easily attainable, and asked devs to give them an easier time grinding, and easier timefacing BH, are the MAJOR factors forcontinuining to limit their power.
but heres the thing to realize, so you dont get upset,something ive realized, and something i think jedi should realize. This game isnt about being more powerful than everyone else. its about meeting people,and having fun in a virtual world.the day your playstyle impedes other peoples fun is the day its nerfed. and since we BH were attacking and killing jedi ruining their immersion into the game they nerfed us.... now that jedi are overpopulated, and too dominating in the GCW and bh PVP ... they will be nerfed ... and theres no argument against it ... 1 = 1 for ALL players is the way it should have been in the first place ...
Xp isnt really a valid argument for powerin that everyone playing this game jedi or not, gains XP. its one thing we never cease to accumilate (unless we are capped) and its the most plentiful resource inSWG.the jedi quests are easy. easier thannon-jedi missions like the DWB or vette.So in reality .. jedi did not sacrifice anything at all really to be a jedi except facing off against BH. Arguing " well i spent a month grinding jedi" is a stupid one because well ...would you have quit if you didnt go jedi? probably not so ... you would have made that Xp anyway.
now since the BH obstacle has been removed for grinding jedi there is no reason to give jedi such a powerful reward, as a dominating template.. in fact with the sheernumber of jedi out there,there is no reason what-so-ever to keep jedi as powerful as they are... so prepare forless of an easier time as jedi as time moves on.
and remember this is the best for the community, not because any given person hates jedi .. most love jedi. if the lowered power of your template gets frustrating and changes your style of play .. i saygive it up for a while, take a break fromjedi ...play your regular toon again .. youll be amazed how fun it is ..
Message Edited by Thassk on 08-12-2005 03:55 PM
EvilAztec
Fri Aug 12, 2005 4:07 pm
#16
Well I never had a problem with groups or even SaberTEF, but I had 20x the power 
Dallow wrote:
Zulac-Chimaera wrote:
ok i was typing abit to fast and maybe should type correctly and use are instead of r. was just saying that a fully templated jedi should not be able to be killed by a full templated bh thats all.
Ah yes, the great jedi argument. BH should only be able to fight us 1 on 1, but a single bh shouldn't be able to beat us.
KingVermir
Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:36 pm
#17
I haven't read more than 30% of your post and starting typing this...Post-CU Jedi do not suck bro.I remember people who grinded any profession-not just Jedi- and didn't know how to PvP at all,didn't know how to use their skills at all long before CU hit in.It's not about the way you grind your template because both pre-cu and post-cu it's always been diffirent to PvP and PvE.What can be useful againts,say,a bol can be useless againts a player and vice versa.Last Ditch rocks in PvP but sucks in PvE for instance.Dervish rocks in PvE but sucks in PvP as another example.I grinded afk and in spin groups but I do not remember a single BH that killed me since I hit full template(I'm what you guys call dabbler btw).I last againts Jedi that are superior to me for as long as I have Force left.I know how to use my skills,you can not learn PvP by beating quenkers or pikets or gurk,get real.Think before you type.You need PvP exprience to PvP properly.Even if you can kill DJM solo you might get owned by noob BH easily.It's all about PvP exprience.And I have a good PvP exprience,if I had the skills I'd own uber LS Jedi with my moderate LS,I speak that confident.I beat a Mdef/MLS because he didn't know how to PvP...all I'm saying is,it's not about grinding-don't whine- it's about PvP exprience.
-Darkstarr- wrote:
2 reasons that I see cause this (I'm a pre-CU Jedi myself):
Most new Jedi grind entirely afk or in spin groups, requiring no thinking or skill on their part aside from getting 1 hit in and healing themselves, unlike the pre-CU Jedi who were forced to grind solo and learn the most effective way to use their templates.
Bluntly, new Jedi suck because they did the cheap and easy grind and didn't learn their templates, combined with lesser quality pearl drops and tuning. My saber is better than most, but nothing amazing so I have no advantage in PvP, yet I drop almost every newly-full-templated Jedi in 5-6 hits. Almost every time they ask me what I did to kill them so quickly. They just don't know anything about using their templates.
Secondly, remember that as a BH (I also have a MBH alt I play more than my Knight now), you KNOW you're going in with a disadvantage, so you take every precaution possible by using the best weapons, foods, and tactics. Most Jedi, on the other hand, have an advantage and many times over-estimate their abilities and don't use the best foods, etc. I think that if a Jedi used every possible advantage at the start of a fight like many MBH's do, Jedi would become much more challenging overall.
Saarkai
Sat Aug 13, 2005 12:39 am
#18
I think there needs to be an accross the board healing nerf. Not just docs, cms, medics, but jedi too. They've nerfed it some, but I think they need to nerf it some more. Perhaps a much larger mind cost for heals accross the board.
Hnglka
Sat Aug 13, 2005 12:47 am
#19
SpunkyKuma wrote:
When the CU first went live, most fights 1 on 1 lasted 5-20 seconds, then people started to discover the ultimate food/spice stacking pushing their health up to 12K+ making it impossible to beat. That got fixed, several balance passes between professions including BH and Jedi (LOTS on Jedi), FOTM grows more popular (MLS/MDef). When publish 20 first went live, my first 10 missions were very quick fights, even killed 3 knights but as time went by and publish 21 came along, fights seem to be taking forever between a BH and Jedi or even some Jedi vs Jedi- I have yet to have a fight shorter than 20 minutes vs most Jedi now.
This is getting old very quickly, my longest fight against a Jedi was close to 60 minutes favoring on my victory (armor lost roughly 30K condition), another one that ended in a draw after 20+ minutes, another lasting 30+ minutes. As a growing number of BHs with a suit of armor sliced for armorbreak reduction, damage/speed sliced double-capped weapons, ultimate food/spice combo, instant stims and very commonly the FOTM template vs growing number of Jedi with weak lightsabers, ultimate food/spice combo, limited force, delayed heals, and inability to run into a building. In my view, Jedi is gradually getting weaker by the day, resulting in most fights getting longer and longer.
What is wrong with this? This was what the balance is in the devs mind?
I really really miss the old system, I really do.
a lot depends on the players as well. Ive had one long battle but hte last 4 fights have resulted in Me DBing the bounty hunter , ten minutes was the longest fight, average was probably 5 minutes or so. Post CU crap pearls and I usually dont eat tons of foods and spice just enough to get by...
Slayer-Titan
Sat Aug 13, 2005 12:59 am
#20
-Darkstarr- wrote:
2 reasons that I see cause this (I'm a pre-CU Jedi myself):
Most new Jedi grind entirely afk or in spin groups, requiring no thinking or skill on their part aside from getting 1 hit in and healing themselves, unlike the pre-CU Jedi who were forced to grind solo and learn the most effective way to use their templates.
Bluntly, new Jedi suck because they did the cheap and easy grind and didn't learn their templates, combined with lesser quality pearl drops and tuning. My saber is better than most, but nothing amazing so I have no advantage in PvP, yet I drop almost every newly-full-templated Jedi in 5-6 hits. Almost every time they ask me what I did to kill them so quickly. They just don't know anything about using their templates.
Secondly, remember that as a BH (I also have a MBH alt I play more than my Knight now), you KNOW you're going in with a disadvantage, so you take every precaution possible by using the best weapons, foods, and tactics. Most Jedi, on the other hand, have an advantage and many times over-estimate their abilities and don't use the best foods, etc. I think that if a Jedi used every possible advantage at the start of a fight like many MBH's do, Jedi would become much more challenging overall.
first of all...PvE and PvP are way differnt. killing a bol or somthing is so much differnt then killing a Bounty Hunter or a Jedi. new jedi do the spin group cause its impossable to grind solo anymore, and in all fairness, not only jedi are doing the area attack thing, i seen plenty of Riflemen and others doing it for the Experiance too. my two cents
Ryal
Sat Aug 13, 2005 2:32 am
#21
Lots of talking, lots of opinion, lots of bias.
I've seen abotu 2 posts in this thread that didn't drip with bias and some obvious or subtle form of superiority. Please stay to the topic at hand.
Anyway. My two cents. I see no reason why jedi should be any more powerful than bounty hunters save one and one alone.
We lose experience when you kill us. You dont lose aything for dying. Until the day comes that jedi dont lose experience from being killed, arguments like this will persist and the jedi will always want to have an edge because they have WAY more to loose.
Time is not really the factor for me. WOuld I still be inthe game if i did not have a jedi? Probably not. There comes a time when you want to take your character down the only unexplored path left, and for me that was Jedi. Someone above posted about the way nerfs work, etc. WHen someone's playstyle limits and ruins the fun of another's playstyle... nerf. Thats very true and in the current system, with the 10+ minute battles in the jedi/bh system, that is essentially what it comes down to.
I dont play my character for the express purpose of being hunted for someone ELSES enjoyment. I play my character for MY enjoyment. When I get killed and lose 300+ thousand experience, which takes me about 3 hours to get on a GOOD day with a good grind group (which I dont enjoy, by the way. I like to PLAY my character, not grind mindlessly for hours), my fun is ruined.
Classic rebuttal to that is "well then dont play a jedi."
ANd therin lies the basic problem in the system. My character exists for your character to kill and my character is the only one with anything to loose by it. If we become "equal" in the sense of play balance, then why are we not equal in terms of role?
Why, when we both know you show up to kill me, can i not attack you first? Why can you wait until i'm at 10% force and 50% health beofre you take your first strike?
Where is the "balance" in that?
You want 1v1 even footing templates? Then pay the price.
I've seen abotu 2 posts in this thread that didn't drip with bias and some obvious or subtle form of superiority. Please stay to the topic at hand.
Anyway. My two cents. I see no reason why jedi should be any more powerful than bounty hunters save one and one alone.
We lose experience when you kill us. You dont lose aything for dying. Until the day comes that jedi dont lose experience from being killed, arguments like this will persist and the jedi will always want to have an edge because they have WAY more to loose.
Time is not really the factor for me. WOuld I still be inthe game if i did not have a jedi? Probably not. There comes a time when you want to take your character down the only unexplored path left, and for me that was Jedi. Someone above posted about the way nerfs work, etc. WHen someone's playstyle limits and ruins the fun of another's playstyle... nerf. Thats very true and in the current system, with the 10+ minute battles in the jedi/bh system, that is essentially what it comes down to.
I dont play my character for the express purpose of being hunted for someone ELSES enjoyment. I play my character for MY enjoyment. When I get killed and lose 300+ thousand experience, which takes me about 3 hours to get on a GOOD day with a good grind group (which I dont enjoy, by the way. I like to PLAY my character, not grind mindlessly for hours), my fun is ruined.
Classic rebuttal to that is "well then dont play a jedi."
ANd therin lies the basic problem in the system. My character exists for your character to kill and my character is the only one with anything to loose by it. If we become "equal" in the sense of play balance, then why are we not equal in terms of role?
Why, when we both know you show up to kill me, can i not attack you first? Why can you wait until i'm at 10% force and 50% health beofre you take your first strike?
Where is the "balance" in that?
You want 1v1 even footing templates? Then pay the price.
Cpl_Fisher
Sat Aug 13, 2005 12:48 pm
#22
KingVermir wrote:
I haven't read more than 30% of your post and starting typing this...Post-CU Jedi do not suck bro.I remember people who grinded any profession-not just Jedi- and didn't know how to PvP at all,didn't know how to use their skills at all long before CU hit in.It's not about the way you grind your template because both pre-cu and post-cu it's always been diffirent to PvP and PvE.What can be useful againts,say,a bol can be useless againts a player and vice versa.Last Ditch rocks in PvP but sucks in PvE for instance.Dervish rocks in PvE but sucks in PvP as another example.I grinded afk and in spin groups but I do not remember a single BH that killed me since I hit full template(I'm what you guys call dabbler btw).I last againts Jedi that are superior to me for as long as I have Force left.I know how to use my skills,you can not learn PvP by beating quenkers or pikets or gurk,get real.Think before you type.You need PvP exprience to PvP properly.Even if you can kill DJM solo you might get owned by noob BH easily.It's all about PvP exprience.And I have a good PvP exprience,if I had the skills I'd own uber LS Jedi with my moderate LS,I speak that confident.I beat a Mdef/MLS because he didn't know how to PvP...all I'm saying is,it's not about grinding-don't whine- it's about PvP exprience.
-Darkstarr- wrote:
2 reasons that I see cause this (I'm a pre-CU Jedi myself):
Most new Jedi grind entirely afk or in spin groups, requiring no thinking or skill on their part aside from getting 1 hit in and healing themselves, unlike the pre-CU Jedi who were forced to grind solo and learn the most effective way to use their templates.
Bluntly, new Jedi suck because they did the cheap and easy grind and didn't learn their templates, combined with lesser quality pearl drops and tuning. My saber is better than most, but nothing amazing so I have no advantage in PvP, yet I drop almost every newly-full-templated Jedi in 5-6 hits. Almost every time they ask me what I did to kill them so quickly. They just don't know anything about using their templates.
Secondly, remember that as a BH (I also have a MBH alt I play more than my Knight now), you KNOW you're going in with a disadvantage, so you take every precaution possible by using the best weapons, foods, and tactics. Most Jedi, on the other hand, have an advantage and many times over-estimate their abilities and don't use the best foods, etc. I think that if a Jedi used every possible advantage at the start of a fight like many MBH's do, Jedi would become much more challenging overall.
what he is saying that you leanr the basics that way. who do you think learned about rifleman pre cu before? Someone who pntblankarea attacked for a day? Or someone who spent a month getting it running faction missions?
The biggest thing here is the SPEED at which people get there templates. Before getting each new box was an accomplishment, and you went out and played with is for days.... until you learned the next box.
When a MLS jedi asked what are his area attacks you gotta wonder, then rush to the nearest Bh term (pre pub 21)
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