Bounty Hunter Archive

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iskareot wrote:

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The original post was made pre 18 and the relative powers of different professions to jedi are quite different now, which does effect a lot of the arguments in it. But what I was smoking to get the .6 to 6 to one power ratio was experience BH'ing full templates with 1 to 3 people (mostly 2) Some templates were really weak some were really strong. Post 19 I've tried a few full templates solo and came out about even. I think this is due in large part jedi needing to find new tactics with 19 while BH's pretty much stayed the same. But the way things are 1.5 to 1 looks about where we are at and will probably land at about 2 to 1 for most templates.

Not sure how I feel about the new changes but I’m pretty sure all the terminals will turn into is a list of full template PvP knights, which I don’t really have a problem with as long as the 1.5 to 1 ratio can be maintained.

With no group visibility you’re really going to have to screw up to get on the terms now. The visibility penalty is for all intents and purposes completely irrelevant. Easy quick and safe grind to full template and no effective penalty for visibility once there. In some ways the purpose of the BH’s system is to provide jedi content now.

Galactic Jedi War is what we got. Regular toons can chose to go overt and fight full template jedi in groups or go BH and fight them one at a time.

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ObiQuixote wrote:
I ask because with the proposed changes coming out of fan fest it appears that the developer’s vision of its purpose is different then what I thought it was. What I thought, or would hope this was intended to be, is a lose check on Jedi power, something that provides jedi with adequate incentive not to run around in such a visible way. Of course the current system missed this mark completely but I don’t see how the proposed changes make anything better.

The initial design flaw in both Jedi profession and the BH / visibility system is a failure to realize or accommodate for the fact that a majority of players will take up these professions to bully weaker players. This can happen with ANY PROFESSION STRONGER THEN THE WEAKER ONE, i.e. I have a Chef and a BH pushed me around.. sorry noone cared. Any power that can be gained and used to hurt weaker players will be used to do so if appropriate checks to that power don’t exist. Of course this isn’t true for every jedi or every BH but it’s more common then not. Even players that enter these profession with a higher ideals will be confronted with a system that encourages this behavior through impediments and penalties to balanced fights and rewards with no deterrents for picking on weaker players.

With all this in mind here are the problems I see with the current system.

There is next to no content for full jedi other then to lord over the GCW. The FRS system attempted to do something about this but it just turned into a tool to gain even more power to lord over the GCW. Agreed, let's hope the new FRS is great and more fun then anything else to stay away from the GCW more so then ever.

The complexity of the jedi profession makes hitting a proposed power ratio of 1.5 to 1 impossible. Finished templates can range anywhere from .5 to 6 to one regular professions. I wantsome ofwhat you are smoking. This leads to a lot of nerf calls from both sides. Jedi with weak templates screaming for more power or nerfs and BH’s hitting god templates screaming for more nerfs.

The visibility system weights innocent and problematic behavior the same and awards the same visibility to weak and strong jedi alike. A padawan leveling with a friend in the middle of nowhere gets the on the terms just as fast as a full template making a mockery of regular profession in the GCW. Lol, this is a I got beat up Cry.. I can do that too.. My Chef got beat up by your Rifleman I was made a mockery of.

The BH terminal system rewards BH’s based on number of boxes a jedi has. When combined with the above issues this is a poor risk reward system. 180k missions are almost always an easy fight and a 220k+ mission can be anything from easy to impossible for a single BH. Well, if your talking about our reward you are right we get none... however as for the rest isn't that the fun part? Not knowing just how strong your mark is? (Note: this isa loaded reply... so much things can be said and involved in this one)

The XP penalty system for jedi penalizes jedi based on their level and is completely irrelevant to full templates which are in greatest need on a check on their power. Look, You worry about your profession and YOU THINK you need to have in check with my power... YOU CHECK your power and get back to me. NOT all Jedi have power , just like NOT ALL BH's have uber weapons and can take on a Jedi... but some can this works both ways AGAIN.

The BH terminal system makes trying to target full template jedis that are making a mockery of regular professions in the GCW impossible. How are we making a Mockery of you???(SINCE WHEN is the GCW made up of all BH's???)If you win a fight it's not a Mockery if you lose one it is?? Sorry man... If you can't take a 90K misson Jedi out then you may need to rethink your profession, on the other hand if you can take them then you have made the point of this reply quite nicely.

There are too many ways to exploit or work around the current system.

Yep for both classes , nothing like having a guy stand and take names then have your buddy at a terminal take a misson on a guy while he is standing there in front of you. This again, works both ways on alot of aspects.

So I have a question. What should the purpose of the BH system be? Is it just to go kill weak padawans for killing creatures in the middle of nowhere? This type of behavior may be frowned upon but I think picking off an overt knight in 8 jedi group ganking everything that comes into Theed should be the point of the this whole system. A check on the most problematic abuse of power. With out this check or if developers intentionally move away from any check for this behavior they are just saying the GCW is a jedi only activity. And the proposed changes make it look like that’s the way the developers are going. GCW is a Jedi only activity.

As long as they take BHs out of the GCW then I would leave too... Your Power far exceeds a average player base and further more is no different then us actully.. You just don't have the same angle that we do. Your BH is stronger then my Master Marksman, Your BH is stronger then my Master Chef... so I say no Jedi , No BHs... (I mean really like there was 500 BHs all fighting each other riiiiggghhhtt.. (So you see the point the same can be said for BHs as well as Jedi)..

Goose and Gander man Goose and Gander...

I think the entire BH system first design was to HAVE FUN, not turn into the hate machine it has. I think we have pulled away from what this should have been... Lets face it, Jedi was here to stay and lets not forget that this is a business and a game at the same time.

I know people like to be BH's I was one in the first part of the game , when it was hard etc.. BUT with all that is in the game there is somthing about unlocking and enjoying a Jedi that is a bit more fun. I have done all the profs.. some more then 3 times lol, No Rspec toon here man. I can tell you Jedi is alot more of a Challenge then BH ever was.. Investigation was hard... BUT that was it... period...no mounts and things like that made that hard as hell...No penalties nothing and the ease amount of XP is .. simple.

The system as we once knew it is gone deal with it, the power Jedi once had is gone we deal with it. Some are strong some are middle of the road and some are weak. It's the fun of the figuring that out that I hope makes this better for us all.

We needed to move away from the hate that has built up and this is move toward that for sure. Some of the BH's that are really upset about this may need to get a Check on themselves about the game they are playing and why. If they get off on the mere fact of griefing someone (AND YES SOME DO AND YOU KNOW IT, I DO)... then this person may need to seek help. YOu might want to thank some of the gank teams and system exploiters for some of this patch as well.

Remember this is about (BALANCE) now...Not getting even.

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Message Edited by iskareot on 07-06-2005 02:31 PM

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ObiQuixote wrote:
I ask because with the proposed changes coming out of fan fest it appears that the developer’s vision of its purpose is different then what I thought it was. What I thought, or would hope this was intended to be, is a lose check on Jedi power, something that provides jedi with adequate incentive not to run around in such a visible way. Of course the current system missed this mark completely but I don’t see how the proposed changes make anything better.

The initial design flaw in both Jedi profession and the BH / visibility system is a failure to realize or accommodate for the fact that a majority of players will take up these professions to bully weaker players. Any power that can be gained and used to hurt weaker players will be used to do so if appropriate checks to that power don’t exist. Of course this isn’t true for every jedi or every BH but it’s more common then not. Even players that enter these profession with a higher ideals will be confronted with a system that encourages this behavior through impediments and penalties to balanced fights and rewards with no deterrents for picking on weaker players.

With all this in mind here are the problems I see with the current system.

There is next to no content for full jedi other then to lord over the GCW. The FRS system attempted to do something about this but it just turned into a tool to gain even more power to lord over the GCW.

The complexity of the jedi profession makes hitting a proposed power ratio of 1.5 to 1 impossible. Finished templates can range anywhere from .5 to 6 to one regular professions. This leads to a lot of nerf calls from both sides. Jedi with weak templates screaming for more power or nerfs and BH’s hitting god templates screaming for more nerfs.

The visibility system weights innocent and problematic behavior the same and awards the same visibility to weak and strong jedi alike. A padawan leveling with a friend in the middle of nowhere gets the on the terms just as fast as a full template making a mockery of regular profession in the GCW.

The BH terminal system rewards BH’s based on number of boxes a jedi has. When combined with the above issues this is a poor risk reward system. 180k missions are almost always an easy fight and a 220k+ mission can be anything from easy to impossible for a single BH.

The XP penalty system for jedi penalizes jedi based on their level and is completely irrelevant to full templates which are in greatest need on a check on their power.

The BH terminal system makes trying to target full template jedis that are making a mockery of regular professions in the GCW impossible.

There are too many ways to exploit or work around the current system.

So I have a question. What should the purpose of the BH system be? Is it just to go kill weak padawans for killing creatures in the middle of nowhere? This type of behavior may be frowned upon but I think picking off an overt knight in 8 jedi group ganking everything that comes into Theed should be the point of the this whole system. A check on the most problematic abuse of power. With out this check or if developers intentionally move away from any check for this behavior they are just saying the GCW is a jedi only activity. And the proposed changes make it look like that’s the way the developers are going. GCW is a Jedi only activity.

Message Edited by ObiQuixote on 06-04-2005 10:58 AM

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JeetBadwarrior wrote:

well I think the new intent for the bh system, is to add content for jedi, I feel that MBH well play a huge role in the FRS, the random mission ect lead to that..so bh is now going to be cannon fodder for high level knights to increase there FRS to get to master...

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I agree with you in general. However, there are some highly skilled BH's out there that routinely take out completed Jedi.