Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: Grouping on Jedi missions????
truewildman wrote:Hmm. Can you maybe back up and show me where BH's are to take on fully templated knights? I thought once you made it to knight through the hunting and the danger, the next danger is the FRS - no longer BH's.
I could be wrong, though.
Well i think Niccolo had a point, I think the devs are making our profession and the hunting of jedi basically random. We will basically have a 50/50 chance of getting a fully templated jedi knight with the abality to avoid incap, and throw up tons of defenses. And the chance to get lucky and catch a padawan. So if we are worth our salt we will almost always kill the padawan, and usually lose to the the knight.
God forbid and they actually allow the jedi to be hunted freely. And I mean if a jedi winds up on the terms, there should be concequences. I fear with the new changes, lots of respec BH are gonna ditch the profession and there will be no one to keep the jedi population in check.
Eventaully this game will just be jedi and their alts, and noobs grinding to be jedi. Then SOE will have to change the timeline to KOTOR time. Not that that would be a bad thing lol, but really we are paying for the post a new hope timeline.
cant you lot see soe dont want us to hunt paddy soe dont want us to hunt full templates they just want us to be for pve
this game just gets worse
im cancelling this week if nothing is going to happen with the jedi might as well play halo 2 and save my money for something good
Pootian wrote:
How are we supposed to do this anymore? I know it will only generate missions for jedi that are online at the time, but really how are we supposed to deal with a mission for a 226k jedi when, at least for me, that level of jedi will run rings around me. I mean I have good equiptment and good armor, and tons of great food, but a maxed template jedi is still quite the handful.
So are we going to be able to group anymore? Or is the only "grouping" gonna happen when a couple different BH take the same jedi mission?
since Fanfest the devs have stated they want jedi and BH to be 1 vs 1 fights
Oh, and tell your fanboi that gave you props for making such a good argument that he doesn't get an "I win" button either.
Niccolado wrote:
Everything will be mostly the same. Except you are not told the name on the terminal. Now you have to pick the mission, without knowing their name and their potential strength. Its good for novice jedi, who will be ganked less. They have never had a chance anyway against your BHs, while they where grinding. And you can now risk meet full template jedi.
Not knowing the name at somepoint in the process is a game breaker. If you are like the jedi on our server you are either grinding in a group on Tat or Dant or in Wookiee land. In the first case, if we come up to you near a lair of 30 spawned critters in a group of 8, you will have ample time to run/hide/cloak/ride/ what ever before we can even target you.
If you are on the Rryatt Trail, we will have no way of knowing if you are in our instance. All of the intelligence that we gather from each other and spies will be useless.
So no, it is not evenly closely the same.
Being a BH is not a free gift to gank/murder Jedi. Now the BHs will take a risk when they hunt jedi! As it is now, the fight is only one way, and totally without any risk for the BH! And that is not the way it suppose to be!
Being a jedi is not a free gift for you to dictate how the game should be played.
When it comes to going through the group of critters the Jedi is hunting, it will be no different from its today. The fight will be 1 vs 1, so if they have friends there, wil not matter at all. More then that, if you are using your seeker droids, they will give you the location of your mark. And when you get to the mark, it will light up as red as usuall. if theres lots of red dots ther, even better for you. You will have to locate the jedi, wait to see what the other red dots do with the jedi, and when/if the jedi's Health is low, you start your attack. As I say, Being a BH is not supposed to be easy.
You are wrong again here. Most accomplished BHs use a targeting macro just for these reasons. We do not tab through all of the criters, we have a macro that reads:
/tar jediname;
/macro targetjedi;
This way we can pick you out of a crowd.
And since when are you the authority of how easy BH is supposed to be?
The current system opens for free ganks of novice jedi. jedi who cant even defend themselves. And. As I say, that is not a good situation. With the system thats coming, we will have it balanced. For both parts:
According to your email that you got when you unlocked your jedi, you were told you were hunted. You were told that it is dangerous. You were told all of these things directly by Sony, yet you discount them now?
- No jedi cant when getting BH TEF hide in any house anymore. Even if only the BH have taken actively part in the combat. (As far as I have heard anyway)
About time if you ask me.
- You have to be a master in your profession to hunt jedi players. This is good, because this "bonus" should be only granted to them who are masters in their profession
This is bad because we are now forced to ranged professions only. There will be no more melee BHs and very few jedi/BH hybrids. This limits peoples choices in game and their ability to have fun.
- No names on terminal. Only Imperial, neutral or rebel jedi is listed. Reduces the harassment to 0, and they who wants to hunt certain faction only, have now this choise.
I could care less about faction. Harassment is a bannable offense. If a BH was harassing you, you should report them. But don't change the entire system because a few players are abusing others. Ban the abusers. As a side note, SOE made it CLEAR that hunting jedi that are on the terms is not harassment. If you are on the terms you are fair game.
- All who is listed in the terminal is Online on the time, the mission where granted. As it is today, you can risk picking Jedi who have been offline for weeks. And you cant pick novice jedi solely anymore. Now you risk meeting jedi who is more experienced!
There is no risk of picking offline missions. Friends lists tell you when a player is online. Most jedi have me on their friends lists and know when I am on their planet because they run find friend macros. So this is really a loss for the jedi, but I am happy to see you do not understand that.
With this system, you have to work more often for your bounty. Now you will not win easy all the time anymore. And you can now risk loosing. Which have been a alien concept to you all.
Any BH that doesn't lose from time to time is not trying hard enough. It sound like you need to brush up on your PvP skills.
Some BHs I know are going to change template. They are not interested in hunting Jedi anymore, they said. Before you knew you had 100% to win if you picked a mission between 80k-160k. It was "Easy Money". You earned lots of money VERY fast, and you could kill other players easy without any risk. The only annoyance they said, was some jedi where good at running and hiding. This will now most likely end.
Seems like the BHs you know where the ones that kept killing you over and over for 120K. Ifyou were the only mark they could handle, then they should quit the profession. As to your other claim,there is no way to earn "Easy Money" as a BH. Crafters make far more money than we do. We can not begin to approach the level of income of a Chef, Weaponsmith or Armorsmith. I am happy though that running and hiding will be much harder for Jedi now.
This game is supposed to be fair to all part. Including Jedi.
Having been a Master Bounty Hunter since '03, do not begin to talk to me or others like me about fair. We have been beaten up, down, frontways and backways by SoE and jedi. At one point I was forced to take up melee skills just to be able to fight with jedi and not die in 3 seconds because of the damn saber block. I have been a MBH since before there were any jedi. I did it the hard way, no speeders, no mounts, 10 minute shuttle, running through all of the planets on foot trying to find a mark that spawned in a tree. We used to require master scout and master marksman. We used to have eyeshot that was nerfed to oblivion. So now the CU comes through and finally, after two years, BH gets some love. We are finally able to be somewhat effective in the role that SoE laid out for us, to control the jedi population, using ranged weapons like we should have been able to use all along. Now you come along and start to talk of fairness? Sir, there is nothing fair in anything that you have said. Your reward for your jedi was the extra charecter slot and the ability to swing a glowstick. It was not an "I Win" button.
Lastly, you will find BHs like me and others that adapt and overcome this stupid nerf. And you know what? You will likely die more, because we will be better at our jobs becuase we had to be.
A jedi challenging us about learning how to pvp?
From my experience most Jedi never pvp'd until they were first hunted by bounty hunters and now that they are full template they run around acting like they are pvp gods.
To win against a non-jedi with a finished jedi template takes a marginal pvper.
As to jedi not doing alot of damage I cry bullsh!t. How does 1000 damage a second sound? Uh yeah that's better than a rifleman.
Nathanielstarr wrote:
Alixir wrote:
Pootian wrote:
How are we supposed to do this anymore? I know it will only generate missions for jedi that are online at the time, but really how are we supposed to deal with a mission for a 226k jedi when, at least for me, that level of jedi will run rings around me. I mean I have good equiptment and good armor, and tons of great food, but a maxed template jedi is still quite the handful.
So are we going to be able to group anymore? Or is the only "grouping" gonna happen when a couple different BH take the same jedi mission?
since Fanfest the devs have stated they want jedi and BH to be 1 vs 1 fights
they should just say "we want jedi to win"
Give me a friggin' break. You must be one of those BH's that Get mission-->get waypoint-->get there asap--->waste no time run in with guns blazing without knowing what you're target's strengths and weaknesses are.
I've said it once, and I'll say it again: I became a BH knowing that it is largely a roleplaying profession, not a money-making one. If I wanted to make money hunting, I would have mastered Ranger.
If you became BH to get rich, you've got a hard knock coming....and coming...and coming....
Message Edited by truewildman on 07-09-2005 03:16 PM
truewildman wrote:
Nathanielstarr wrote:
Alixir wrote:
Pootian wrote:
How are we supposed to do this anymore? I know it will only generate missions for jedi that are online at the time, but really how are we supposed to deal with a mission for a 226k jedi when, at least for me, that level of jedi will run rings around me. I mean I have good equiptment and good armor, and tons of great food, but a maxed template jedi is still quite the handful.
So are we going to be able to group anymore? Or is the only "grouping" gonna happen when a couple different BH take the same jedi mission?
since Fanfest the devs have stated they want jedi and BH to be 1 vs 1 fights
they should just say "we want jedi to win"
Give me a friggin' break. You must be one of those BH's that Get mission-->get waypoint-->get there asap--->waste no time run in with guns blazing without knowing what you're target's strengths and weaknesses are.
I've said it once, and I'll say it again: I became a BH knowing that it is largely a roleplaying profession, not a money-making one. If I wanted to make money hunting, I would have mastered Ranger.
If you became BH to get rich, you've got a hard knock coming....and coming...and coming....
There are PLENTY of BH's that have taken down full-temp jedi in a 1 vs. 1 fight, without afk/load killing.
So, any arguments that a BH cannot take out a full-temp knight are out the window. Give it a rest.
Message Edited by truewildman on 07-09-2005 03:16 PM
yeah Ive done it. I've solod finished templates. But there are certain templates that you cannot solo. Certain sabers that hit as hard as rifles, take 1/3rd as much action and attack twice as fast. But really how can you get to know a target when you don't know that targets name? when you do find out who the target is he will know you're after him. I'm a well known bounty hunter because I have killed finished temps so that fact actually works against me. Finished templates are so rarely solo'd by non jedi that word gets out quick if you can do it. Even if you study jedi and believe me I do....you won't know who you're going after until you get there. How can you study them when you dont know who they are? And as easy as you think it is not being seen, it's not that easy....you get a waypoint that probably updated 2 minutes ago. The target isn't right on the waypoint when you get there. You go close enough to see who your target is....and by the time you find him. He's seen you. Surprise is lost and the only thing you can do is drive off and wait. But he knows your after him.
Nathanielstarr wrote:
truewildman wrote:
Nathanielstarr wrote:
Alixir wrote:
Pootian wrote:
How are we supposed to do this anymore? I know it will only generate missions for jedi that are online at the time, but really how are we supposed to deal with a mission for a 226k jedi when, at least for me, that level of jedi will run rings around me. I mean I have good equiptment and good armor, and tons of great food, but a maxed template jedi is still quite the handful.
So are we going to be able to group anymore? Or is the only "grouping" gonna happen when a couple different BH take the same jedi mission?
since Fanfest the devs have stated they want jedi and BH to be 1 vs 1 fights
they should just say "we want jedi to win"
Give me a friggin' break. You must be one of those BH's that Get mission-->get waypoint-->get there asap--->waste no time run in with guns blazing without knowing what you're target's strengths and weaknesses are.
I've said it once, and I'll say it again: I became a BH knowing that it is largely a roleplaying profession, not a money-making one. If I wanted to make money hunting, I would have mastered Ranger.
If you became BH to get rich, you've got a hard knock coming....and coming...and coming....
There are PLENTY of BH's that have taken down full-temp jedi in a 1 vs. 1 fight, without afk/load killing.
So, any arguments that a BH cannot take out a full-temp knight are out the window. Give it a rest.
Message Edited by truewildman on 07-09-2005 03:16 PM
yeah Ive done it. I've solod finished templates. But there are certain templates that you cannot solo. Certain sabers that hit as hard as rifles, take 1/3rd as much action and attack twice as fast. But really how can you get to know a target when you don't know that targets name? when you do find out who the target is he will know you're after him. I'm a well known bounty hunter because I have killed finished temps so that fact actually works against me. Finished templates are so rarely solo'd by non jedi that word gets out quick if you can do it. Even if you study jedi and believe me I do....you won't know who you're going after until you get there. How can you study them when you dont know who they are? And as easy as you think it is not being seen, it's not that easy....you get a waypoint that probably updated 2 minutes ago. The target isn't right on the waypoint when you get there. You go close enough to see who your target is....and by the time you find him. He's seen you. Surprise is lost and the only thing you can do is drive off and wait. But he knows your after him.
You asked how, so I'll offer my answer.
As a jedi now (ex-BH), I see about 8 to 10 BH per hour go across my radar. I do the usual /exa and /findf to see if I'm being hunted. (It's sad, but you'd be surprised how many BH's forget to remove your name from their friends' list).
After Pub 20, I doubt the frequency of BH's on my radar will change much. What's to say that one of them aren't actually hunting me, but are smart enough to remove my name, remove thier armor and weapons, and act nanchalant about it to make them no different than the others I see?
Bang, the BH has my name, may even see some foods and powers running under my name and can make a stab at some of my build. Bingo, you know me, I still have yet to suspect you. (although I'm wary of everyone 
).
Really, that's how I used to hunt. Sure, I rp'd it a bit more than the usual BH, denying myself the knowledge of the name anyway, and not using the friends' list, so the change would have affected me little if I was still BH, but it's far from being "gamebreaking" or even "crimping".
A BH's tool is that droid (which wasa godsend to most), not a magicalautomatic list.
Because part of the fun I had with my missions before was stalking my jedi prey for a few days, figuring out his routine and waiting for the right time to strike, by the time i figure it all out my mission will be gone
Oldetimer wrote:
Think of it in the Jedi perspective.... your only a lvl 67+ or lower.... you barely have any damageing attacks you can heal a little. Your health is bouncing around 2.4k or so and a sniper shot or another powerfull attack hit you and cracks you open with a 1.4k sniper shot... He cant do nothing but run... its hard enough that people whip the $hit out of the lower jedi, you dont see to many Bh's going after a full templated one... So you bh's say your only a BH for the money not the grief... lets see if your for real or just go and cancell your accounts.
Why the h3ll would you be lvl 67? If you're dumb enough to drop skills once you get paddy then you deserve to die. Alot. I've fought low level jedi where they whip out their nice T-21 and beat me to a wet spot with that, not their sabers. Lvl 80 too.
Niccolado wrote:
Everything will be mostly the same.
No it won't. Right now its really *fun* to find out information about a particular Jedi, study their hunting and move patterns and strike at the right moment. This patch takes the fun and roleplaying out of being a BH.
I have a friend who is a BH. He has waypoints in his datapad for certain Jedi's safehouses. He knows the hunting grounds for Jedi of certain guilds. He has a network of BHs and other players that he exchanges information with -- these are real live informants. He has spent months building up a list of rebel and Imperial Jedi so he knows who to hunt and who not to hunt. Publish 20 will destroy these aspects of being a bounty hunter. BHs will be reduced to folllowing droids -- and droids don't work on Kash.
Niccolado wrote:
- No jedi cant when getting BH TEF hide in any house anymore. Even if only the BH have taken actively part in the combat. (As far as I have heard anyway)
Who cares? The vast majority of Jedi hunt on Kash and there are no houses/structures on Kash. This also doesn't eleminate the /offerride issue. No houses on Kash, plus the /offerride issue means Jedi can get away whenever they want. Add to this the line of sight exploit.
Niccolado wrote:
- You have to be a master in your profession to hunt jedi players. This is good, because this "bonus" should be only granted to them who are masters in their profession
No it's not good. It limites the number of players that can hunt Jedi. That is what that change is about. It's a measure calculated to protect Jedi. Maybe we should put Force Run in the master box to see if you call that a "good" change.
Niccolado wrote:
- No names on terminal. Only Imperial, neutral or rebel jedi is listed. Reduces the harassment to 0, and they who wants to hunt certain faction only, have now this choise.
While it's unfortunate that lower level Jedi get ganked, it takes more than one BH to take down a Knight or full-template Jedi. Jedi are designed to be 1.5 times the strength of regular players. One free shot before the combat begins is not enough to make the fight equal.
Remember that all Jedi have been outlawed. The visibility system reflects the fact that when Jedi use their powers openly, the word gets out, and the Jedi gets out on the terminals. Ifa Jedi is on the terms ANYONE can take their mission. It's not harrassment unless the BH trash talks and is otherwise harrassing the Jedi player.
Another reason removing names is bad is that allowing BHs to target specific Jedi contributes to the GCW and to roleplaying. On my server several Imperial guilds have formed alliances such that our BHs to not hunt allied Jedi. Rebel Jedi and the Jedi of traitorous Imperial guilds or fair game. My guild conciously hunts down these Jedi so that we can help honorable Imperials grow more powerful while slowing down the growth of rebels in specific rebel guilds. Removing the names of Jedi from the terms cuts against this very exciting and nuanced part of the GCW. (It's not just imps v. rebs; it's allied Imps fighting against other guilds)
Niccolado wrote:
- All who is listed in the terminal is Online on the time, the mission where granted. As it is today, you can risk picking Jedi who have been offline for weeks. And you cant pick novice jedi solely anymore. Now you risk meeting jedi who is more experienced!
You're so uninformed its hard to know where to begin.... All but the most noobish BHs don't have a problem finding Jedi who are online and offline. You simply add them to your friends list. Under the new system, you will *still* have to add them to your friend's list because, guess what Sherlock, the Jedi might go offline after you take the mission.
This change is only marginally helpful. By limitin the missions to online Jedi and removing the names from the terms, you prevent a BH from stalking his prey over a long period of time. The most patient of BHs can hunt a mark over several days or weeks, studying their paterns, finding safe houses, etc. The hunt can take place even when the Jedi is offline. In that sense, and given that you *still* have to use /addfriend this change can be seen as a limitation.
As for the "risk" -- while this change adds risk to BHs, that's not what its about. It's about removing risk for Jedi.
Niccolado wrote:
This game is supposed to be fair to all part. Including Jedi.
1.5 strength versus "regular" strength is not fair.
Niccolado wrote:
The Devs have stated that the Fight is supposed to be 1 vs 1 only. The Jedi is a little stronger, but this will be weighed up with that the BH have the initial attack and the suprise on its side.
I think this is a good publish. Both for Jedi and for BHs. It simply evens the game on both sides.
One free shot does not make a BH equal to a Jedi that is 1.5 times stronger than the BH. I don't think this publish is good for both Jedi and BHs. For Jedi, I think its a "be careful what you wish for" publish. Because the fight will now be 1 vs. 1 you can expect that BHs will be in an uproar about how Jedi are more powerful. Eventually, the devs might respond by making things more even which means nerf Jedi.
I like that jedi are really powerful because they should be and that's cool. If its going to be one on one, however, I suspect the devs will make things more balanced. Be careful what you wish for, Niccolado. You just might get it.