Bounty Hunter Archive
Thread: Tanks-I know this isn't a BH prob-Melle Trip Mastery is wrong-you have a history of getting results
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Darth_Spike
Wed Aug 10, 2005 10:56 am
#1
It appears to be possible for someone to be Master Swordsman, Master Fencer AND MAster TKA. This seems to go agianst what the Devs said during CURB development about NO TRIPPLE MASTERIES. I am sure there are many Bounty Hunters that would like to have a tripple mastery, and I am sure Master Rangers would love it as well. If it is ok for melle, why not for us as well.
Like I said, this isnt a Bounty Hunter Issue, but you seem to be able to get hings done both here and in the Jedi forums, so I thought you might be able to get results on this as well.
Sirisandir
Wed Aug 10, 2005 10:58 am
#2
melee are severly gimped. theres nothing wrong with tripple mastery.
ranged have root. shut up and stop whining.
Darth_Spike
Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:26 am
#4
You 2 must be some of the dudes using this Dev oversight. This isn't about what abilities someone has, its about 1 template doing what isn't supposed to happen. Instead of Trippe mastery, fix the melle professions. If Tripple Master in Melle is INTENDED by the Devs, then why can't ALL Melle professions achieve it - Pikemann aren't able to do it...isn't that a Nerf to them. If the Devs decise that Melle are suppsoed to be able to Tripple Master, then they should adjust things so Pikeman are able to as well. If Tripple Mastery is not intented, then the Devs should remove the posibility and adjust the Melle Professions to be more viable - suce as giving them unique abilites that cant be found elsewhere.
I have nothing againstMele having a very special niche in the game where they are the hands down Masters, and having being able to combine 2 combat roles like everyone else. But having 1 template out there that can fill 3 roles is unballanced.
This is not a BH issue, except that if Melle is so dorked up that the only solution is to tripple master, then it not only hurts Pikeman, but it ultimately makes it less likely for there to be Melle BountyHunters - which I think would be good for the game overall. Seeing a MBH TKM or MBH MSwordsman would be good and keep JEdi on thier toes. At the moment, however, why would a Melle want to do that when they can have considderable more power as TKM, MSwordsman, and M Fencer.
I am not even saying to NERF anyone. I would rather see ALL FOUR Melle professions be made stronger in theor own right. I would like to see a Double Mastery be the maximum for ALL PROFESSIONS, and Double MAster be all that is needed
BinaryT
Wed Aug 10, 2005 1:06 pm
#5
Starcloud wrote:That's actually easy:
TKA requiring Unarmed 4 and Polearms 4 instead would disallow the "triple melee master" combination.
I suppose that would work.
I wasn't actually around right went the CU went live, so that leads me to another question:
What would happen to TKAs when they logged in for the first time after this change? How would the game reconcile the fact that they have elite profession skills without the prerequisites for them?
GalacticBulge
Wed Aug 10, 2005 1:08 pm
#6
BinaryT wrote:
Starcloud wrote:That's actually easy:
TKA requiring Unarmed 4 and Polearms 4 instead would disallow the "triple melee master" combination.
I suppose that would work.
I wasn't actually around right went the CU went live, so that leads me to another question:
What would happen to TKAs when they logged in for the first time after this change? How would the game reconcile the fact that they have elite profession skills without the prerequisites for them?
Why would it even be needed? Does having triple-elite mastery really unbalance things? It appears this is just about titles over your toon's head.
Cetto
Wed Aug 10, 2005 1:09 pm
#7
a tripple master melee template sux you are totally useless if you do it (no healing without stims)
negilum
Wed Aug 10, 2005 1:12 pm
#8
Starcloud wrote:That's actually easy:
TKA requiring Unarmed 4 and Polearms 4 instead would disallow the "triple melee master" combination.
i still can't figure out why they didn't do that in the first place
BinaryT
Wed Aug 10, 2005 1:27 pm
#9
GalacticBulge wrote:
BinaryT wrote:
Starcloud wrote:That's actually easy:
TKA requiring Unarmed 4 and Polearms 4 instead would disallow the "triple melee master" combination.
I suppose that would work.
I wasn't actually around right went the CU went live, so that leads me to another question:
What would happen to TKAs when they logged in for the first time after this change? How would the game reconcile the fact that they have elite profession skills without the prerequisites for them?
Why would it even be needed? Does having triple-elite mastery really unbalance things? It appears this is just about titles over your toon's head.
I'm probably not the person you should be quoting if you're going to ask that question.
If I didn't make it clear from my first post, I don't necessarily see this as anything that needs fixing.
But if people are going to that suggest that it needs fixing, and suggest fixes for it, then I'm certainly going to be interested in seeing what impact such a fix has on the game.
Darth_Spike
Wed Aug 10, 2005 1:35 pm
#10
Starcloud wrote:
That's actually easy:
TKA requiring Unarmed 4 and Polearms 4 instead would disallow the "triple melee master" combination.
That was kinda what I was thinking. It makes the requirements more similar to the Ranged Elite Professions (which cannot tripple master). The problem here is that there are only 3 Elite Ranged Professions and 4 Elite Melee (thanks for the correction birdinga). Making the change you suggest replaces one problem with another, since Pikeman AND TKA would then be able to get TKA and Pikeman without any additional points spent in the Brawler trees. The trick is to have it so that any Elite Melee Professions require a differnt2 Brawler Professions. However, with 4 Brawler Branches and 4 Elite Melee Professions (EMP), it is mathematically impossible to have a situation where there are only 2 branches required for each EMP and no combination of 2 EMPs can give you the prerequs for a third EMP.
There ae 6 posible unique combinations. Unarmed =A, 1-Handed=B, 2-Handed=B, Polearm=D
AB=BA
AC=CA
AD=DA
BC=CB
BD=DB
CD=CD
Combining any of the 2 yields:
AB + AC = ABC
AB + BC = ABC
AC + BC = ABC
AB + AD = ABD
AB + BD = ABD
AC + AD = ACD
BC + BD = BCD
AB + CD = ABCD ****
So there would always be one profession that can tripple master, as long as thre are 4 EMPs
A solution would not be easy.1 of the EMPs could be eliminated, which would create the same symetry as the Elite Ranged Professions, but would really piss off the people playing that profession. One of the EMPs could be Transformed into a Hybrid Profession, and therefore require something from outside the Brawler tree, maybe from the Scout Tree.
OR, since this is a Bounty Hunter Forumn there is my personal favorire. Create 2 variations of Bounty Hunter. A Ranged Bounty hunter and a Melee Bounty Hunter. This might actually fight into the Star Wars Continuity since Teras Kesi Artis came about as an opposition to Jedi. So Bounty Hunter wouldrequire what is required right now, andTKA require Unarmed and Trapping. TKA then gets an Investigation Line, but it doesnt use droids, it uses some form of Meditation to find their target.
Each EMP would then require Unarmed and look almost exactly like the Ranged Professions. There would then be 2 Professions that hunt Jedi, and each one would come at the Jedi from a different angle. This would end up forcing Jedi to take more diverse templates, since the Disciplines that are good against the Ranged BH may not help against a TKA. One Jedi tempate could never provide adequate protection from both BH and TKA, so each Jedi would have to choose who they feel like fighting the most.
VanlaenSWG
Wed Aug 10, 2005 1:40 pm
#11
BinaryT wrote:
Starcloud wrote:
That's actually easy:
TKA requiring Unarmed 4 and Polearms 4 instead would disallow the "triple melee master" combination.
I suppose that would work.
I wasn't actually around right went the CU went live, so that leads me to another question:
What would happen to TKAs when they logged in for the first time after this change? How would the game reconcile the fact that they have elite profession skills without the prerequisites for them?
This happened to me when I logged in last week, first time after the CU, seems they added 2 handed melee brawler line to the prereq of tka -- I was a TKM, some commando + some smuggler + some bh and it put me at -12 skill points. I could not move from the spot I logged in at until I respeced to get my skill points back up to 0/250 or above.
Darth_Spike
Wed Aug 10, 2005 1:46 pm
#12
TheOneWhoTopes wrote:
alot of melee guys don't go for the triple mastery, they go for tka/swordsman (for whatever other combo) and doc 4/0/0/0 or combat medic 4/0/0/0. Melee got smacked the hardest with nerfs and if we do go triple we can still be easily beaten by just getting rooted and snared. If you ranged guys got a triple then you would be way overpowered. I say melee DESERVES triple mastery
oh and p.s if you're going to complain about melee please do it in the tka or swordsman etc forums, not the bounty hunter's
Message Edited by TheOneWhoTopes on 08-10-2005 03:25 PM
On your first point, if Melee DESERVE tripple mastery, then why are Pikeman left out in the cold. Adjust it so all 4 Melee professions can appear in a combination of 3. Or like I said above, break one of the professions off and make it Hybrid.
On your second point, I have seen Tanks mention things on our (I am a BH) boards and it gets taken care of. Not every other correspondant can claim that. Additionally, in my post above, I was kinda resurecting an old idea of a Melee Bounty Hunter, and TKA might be easiest to adjust.
Denate
Wed Aug 10, 2005 2:05 pm
#13
Yes, it is an issue, and shouldn't be there, but....
I have been a triple master (had to try it), and its really a powerful offense, but guess what, if you can't kill it fast, your dead, because you may seem to have good defenses, but without healing ability, you are totally gimped.
I dropped triple master 1 day after i grinded it up.
Went to a hybrid, and as a single master i am more powerful then a triple master.
TKM
Sword 0434
Doc 4004
I would fear that template way over the triple mastery any day. And yes, i was a pikeman, and it does suck being the only melee template that can't triple master, just by thought, not by power.
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