Bounty Hunter Archive

Hi guys,

Well, with the removal of player bounties SOE has removed the core gameplay for many of us. With that said, let's try to get it back. First I set the ground rule for a viable Player Bounty system. Then I propose one.

A Player Bounty System will need two critical features to ever have a chance:

1) Opt-in only. SOE has made it clear that forced PVP is not going to be considered. Please resist the urge to complain about Jedis being forced to PVP. The old system was not forced because the actions of the Jedi put them on the terms.

2) Risk/Reward has to be balanced. Flashback to PreCU. Jedi were indeed uber, and that uberness was the reward. The risk of course is the possibility of being hunted by BHs, dieing, losing XP, etc. As Jedi got nerfed and nerfed the risk stayed the same but the reward kept diminishing. Finally in the CU2 the reward will be nothing because Jedi are no longer alpha. Thus, there is no justification for the risk and therefore player missions on Jedi have been (and rightfully so) been removed.

So what now? I think most will agree that our focus should be SMUGGLERS and not Jedi. In fact, the core ideas of this system was already pitched with the ideas for the smuggler revamp way back:

Smugger missions will be tiered by varying Risk/Reward:

Tier 1. At the lowest level there is little risk should the mission fail, but there is little pay (little reward).

Tier 2. At the medium level there is some risk in the form of potentially being jumped on the ground or in space by bandit NPCs or having contraband siezed by the Imperials (NPC), etc, during the mission AND/OR by having NPCs BHs coming after the smuggler should they fail by losing the contranabd to NPCs or stealing it for themselves. This increased risk would of course have an increased payout (reward).

Tier 3. Finally, at the highest level, is where we come in. Missions at this level are extremely risky. These missions having the smuggler moving very HOT! contraband. This is at the level where they will very likey be attacked by some force (NPC). Very tough bandits or very determined Imperial NPCs. Maybe these missions might require Smugglers to team up (read Han/Solo, Talon Karrde had a whole fleet). Successfully completing these missions would be very very profitable. However, failing these mission would place these Smugglers on the BH terms (Jabba -> Greedo -> Han). That is where we come in.

LET ME ADD! So we got to hunt Smugglers. But there is more! What about BH risk/reward? With this proposed system if the smuggler fails, then not only may he not be paid, but he also has a PC BH coming after him. But if a BH fails, he doesnt get paid but thats it. Thats a problem since this is not balanced with the risk the Smuggler is taking (not getting paid AND getting killed). Thus, I propose a system where a certain level of Prestige will be necessary to get Smuggler missions in the first place. Prestige is obtained by doing NPC missions. Once you reach a certain level of Prestige (by successfully doing NPC missions) you can then taken on Smugglers. The risk for BHs is loss of prestige. Failing a smuggler mission will require the BH to take on NPC missions again to rebuild his reputation.

(I can even see smugglers gaining presige which grows as they survive more and more BH encouters. BH Prestige and Smuggler Prestige can work similar to how PvP rank works. If a BH with high Prestige dies at the hands of a Smuggler with low Prestige, the BH losses ALOT of Prestige, likewise, a BH with low prestige already dieing at the hands of a Smuggler with high prestige results in a smaller loss for the BH. This would work vice versa for a BH killing a Smuggler. BUT leave this out of the core idea since its a nice feature but not necessary.)

To those who say this is not much of a risk for BHs, remember, for many of us, this is our CORE gameplay. Losing this the ability to take on player mission by dieing is a risk indeed.

To sum up:

I TRULY this this is the way to go. Because:

1) It is opt-in only.
2) The risk/reward ratio can be balanced.


Furthermore, this gives content to Smugglers who need it and it gives content to us. Plus, I think its damn cool. Smuggling inherently has danger in it, otherwise you are just a courrier. Importantly there are many smugglers who actually want this. Not like the tepid and often hostile reactions from Jedi to the old system.


SAMOUS, try hooking up with the Smuggler corrospondent. IMO something like this is our best shot.

So, what do you guys think?

Message Edited by Aanu on 11-04-2005 05:57 PM

/bump

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MsNiL wrote:

From Marksman Correspondant, about the questions that where replied by the devs in Austin during betatesting the NGE:

"The reason they gave for the PC bounties were removed is that it promoted a bitter bitter rivalry between BHs and Jedi. I never was a Jedi, but having run BH missions I was upset to no end when I track somebody and find...a generic small house and tells respond with /afk message. Also they want the focus to be on the GCW and having parts of you population angry and upset they can't kill each other because the other is an exploiting **edit** doesn't really build a gameworld. So yes some people enjoyed that, but howmany people avoided teh BH/Jedi forums because of that."

So basicly the BH vs Jedi TEF where becouse Bounty Hunters and Jedi whined too much about killing eachother, and SoE wanted to GCW as the endgame instead of focusing on just 2 professions.

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The reason there was a rivarly is becuase SOE didnt implement it properly. They put up a normal prof against an alpha prof thus pissing off the BHs. Then they nerf the Jedi pissing them off. Not too mention there were many PVE only Jedi who really couldnt do anything without winding up on the terms. They created a culture of grinding and then gave BHs the power to take XP away. Those are the reasons for the rivarly.

Its a game with advesaries, there will always be some rivalry. But the old system promoted the negative attitudes. Not forcing the system on people and and giving real risk/reward is the key.

Message Edited by Aanu on 11-04-2005 09:39 PM

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MsNiL wrote:

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They tried in two years.

Forced-pvp and alphaprofessions doesnt work.

There where 33 professions neglected constantly just becouse two where pushed against eachother and needed constant attention.

Now everybody are created as equals with their own distinct roles and we can meet freely in the GCW when we want to.

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You are right. But this system is based on the premise that no pvp is forced, has balanced risk/reward, and alpha classses are gone.

IF they introduce player bounties again it will be very fair but most likely no cash rewards .

Reason ???... Jedi dies he looses a level , BH dies he looses a level. Period it's the way death works in the game NGE testing now .

Die = Level loss.

End of story .

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Aanu wrote:


SAMOUS, try hooking up with the Smuggler corrospondent. IMO something like this is our best shot.

So, what do you guys think?

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Wes and I have actually been working on an idea like this before the big announcement and we are continuing to do so with the NGE

I like your idea and will be shooting Wes a link

Message Edited by SamousNemo on 11-05-2005 03:04 AM

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Aanu wrote:
Hi guys,

Well, with the removal of player bounties SOE has removed the core gameplay for many of us. With that said, let's try to get it back. First I set the ground rule for a viable Player Bounty system. Then I propose one.

A Player Bounty System will need two critical features to ever have a chance:

1) Opt-in only. SOE has made it clear that forced PVP is not going to be considered. Please resist the urge to complain about Jedis being forced to PVP. The old system was not forced because the actions of the Jedi put them on the terms.

2) Risk/Reward has to be balanced. Flashback to PreCU. Jedi were indeed uber, and that uberness was the reward. The risk of course is the possibility of being hunted by BHs, dieing, losing XP, etc. As Jedi got nerfed and nerfed the risk stayed the same but the reward kept diminishing. Finally in the CU2 the reward will be nothing because Jedi are no longer alpha. Thus, there is no justification for the risk and therefore player missions on Jedi have been (and rightfully so) been removed.

So what now? I think most will agree that our focus should be SMUGGLERS and not Jedi. In fact, the core ideas of this system was already pitched with the ideas for the smuggler revamp way back:

Smugger missions will be tiered by varying Risk/Reward:

Tier 1. At the lowest level there is little risk should the mission fail, but there is little pay (little reward).

Tier 2. At the medium level there is some risk in the form of potentially being jumped on the ground or in space by bandit NPCs or having contraband siezed by the Imperials (NPC), etc, during the mission AND/OR by having NPCs BHs coming after the smuggler should they fail by losing the contranabd to NPCs or stealing it for themselves. This increased risk would of course have an increased payout (reward).

Tier 3. Finally, at the highest level, is where we come in. Missions at this level are extremely risky. These missions having the smuggler moving very HOT! contraband. This is at the level where they will very likey be attacked by some force (NPC). Very tough bandits or very determined Imperial NPCs. Maybe these missions might require Smugglers to team up (read Han/Solo, Talon Karrde had a whole fleet). Successfully completing these missions would be very very profitable. However, failing these mission would place these Smugglers on the BH terms (Jabba -> Greedo -> Han). That is where we come in.

LET ME ADD! So we got to hunt Smugglers. But there is more! What about BH risk/reward? With this proposed system if the smuggler fails, then not only may he not be paid, but he also has a PC BH coming after him. But if a BH fails, he doesnt get paid but thats it. Thats a problem since this is not balanced with the risk the Smuggler is taking (not getting paid AND getting killed). Thus, I propose a system where a certain level of Prestige will be necessary to get Smuggler missions in the first place. Prestige is obtained by doing NPC missions. Once you reach a certain level of Prestige (by successfully doing NPC missions) you can then taken on Smugglers. The risk for BHs is loss of prestige. Failing a smuggler mission will require the BH to take on NPC missions again to rebuild his reputation.

(I can even see smugglers gaining presige which grows as they survive more and more BH encouters. BH Prestige and Smuggler Prestige can work similar to how PvP rank works. If a BH with high Prestige dies at the hands of a Smuggler with low Prestige, the BH losses ALOT of Prestige, likewise, a BH with low prestige already dieing at the hands of a Smuggler with high prestige results in a smaller loss for the BH. This would work vice versa for a BH killing a Smuggler. BUT leave this out of the core idea since its a nice feature but not necessary.)

To those who say this is not much of a risk for BHs, remember, for many of us, this is our CORE gameplay. Losing this the ability to take on player mission by dieing is a risk indeed.

To sum up:

I TRULY this this is the way to go. Because:

1) It is opt-in only.
2) The risk/reward ratio can be balanced.


Furthermore, this gives content to Smugglers who need it and it gives content to us. Plus, I think its damn cool. Smuggling inherently has danger in it, otherwise you are just a courrier. Importantly there are many smugglers who actually want this. Not like the tepid and often hostile reactions from Jedi to the old system.


SAMOUS, try hooking up with the Smuggler corrospondent. IMO something like this is our best shot.

So, what do you guys think?

Message Edited by Aanu on 11-04-200505:57 PM

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I like it. With it being an optional choice it shouldn't p'o anyone. Plus smugglers have been BEGGING for content for awhile, some even for bounties. If this was put it in would solidify my choice to become a Smuggler, and perhaps keep me from moving onto greener pastures.

It's a good idea and there should be no problems with an opt-in system.

However....

Since anyone who does opt-in will be fully aware at the time that for failing a mission they will be hunted the system will see some problems. You're not going to get an unobservant jedi grinding against Bols on Dantooine at the end of your mission, you're likely to find a level 90 smuggler (or whatever the max is going to end up as) who is actually waiting for you to attack.

Sadly, I can guarantee that because of this you're going to get people running to the forums saying that either BH is too weak or smuggler is too powerful. They'll conveniently ignore the fact that for the most part the only people taking the missions will be those who want to be hunted and have the equipment and skills to back them up. This will, in turn, generate animosity between BH's and Smugglers much like we see now between BH and Jedi.

It's a great idea on paper (or forum), but I've no idea how it would translate to the game.

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DomMantell wrote:
It's a good idea and there should be no problems with an opt-in system.

However....

Since anyone who does opt-in will be fully aware at the time that for failing a mission they will be hunted the system will see some problems. You're not going to get an unobservant jedi grinding against Bols on Dantooine at the end of your mission, you're likely to find a level 90 smuggler (or whatever the max is going to end up as) who is actually waiting for you to attack.

Sadly, I can guarantee that because of this you're going to get people running to the forums saying that either BH is too weak or smuggler is too powerful. They'll conveniently ignore the fact that for the most part the only people taking the missions will be those who want to be hunted and have the equipment and skills to back them up. This will, in turn, generate animosity between BH's and Smugglers much like we see now between BH and Jedi.

It's a great idea on paper (or forum), but I've no idea how it would translate to the game.

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Well I'm gonna make a mistake here, but I'll discuss this...

For starters, players under the old PC bounty system often waiting for you to attack. Many times they already had macros running and fully buffed. Hell, as they have been posting lately on our boards, some of them actually enjoyed always looking over their shoulders

Secondly, I hope Smugglers are powerful enough to give us a tough fight. If they weren't, it wouldn't be very enjoyable (although we've been getting told what is and what is not "fun" enough lately)

If Smuggler bounties were implemented I'd look forward to working with the Smuggler community to ensure that each side has the balance required to make it work

Animosity between Smugglers and Bounty Hunters is about the last thing I want right now

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SamousNemo wrote:

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Aanu wrote:


SAMOUS, try hooking up with the Smuggler corrospondent. IMO something like this is our best shot.

So, what do you guys think?

---

Wes and I have actually been working on an idea like this before the big announcement and we are continuing to do so with the NGE

I like your idea and will be shooting Wes a link

Message Edited by SamousNemo on 11-05-2005 03:04 AM

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Clicky to a RP-oriented content enhancement proposal.