Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: This 'low success' bug needs to be stopped now
Becareful what you ask for they may nerf the BE class that just got some love!!
If this game is to work like it they said it would then dont the Novice BE's deserve a little piece of the pie? A novice armorsmith makes Malbari, Chiten, Tantel, Ubese and Padded while the Master AS makes Composite and RIS. Vary seldom do you see them making much else. I personally make Ubese and Composite, I can make RIS but it isnt worth the effort.
I think you are missing the point in that a Novice BE has a chance to mess up and this accidently causes the pet to be vary nice, but how often do you think this is going to happen? It isnt like they want to fail or that they can fail on purpose. I think the fact that this can happen is a good thing and here is why. Sometimes things dont happen as planed and good things come of it. They do not always work to your advantage either. I think it is pretty cool that miricles do happen on occasion. Like an exceptional child is born from 2 ordinary parents.
Personally I dont think a Master BE should be able to make low lvl pets at all. A master BE should be able to make the best pets ever seen tho above lvl 30 lets say. This would give Novice BE something to strive for and give them a reason to be. I see alot of amazing pets on this board that are low lvl but only a few of the High lvl pets. Where are the masters that are making the lvl 60+ 15kHAM light armor 60% kinetic 80% energy Monsters?
This is not a shot or an attack just a kinda thinking out loud kinda thing and before you say shuddup you are only a MAS what do you know? I have 4 accounts 1 is a Master BE and Master Doc that I enjoy one is a Master CH that i plan to make pets so I know alittle about a few things.
I am going to have to side with Tal-N on this one. Though some interesting points were brought up I can not see how a Master of genetics can not replicate a "failed" experiment of a Novice. Masters should be Masters, they should know the ins and outs of their profession and should produce the absolute best quality ( bang for the CL ) creatures in the game. And just so you know I am not quite a Novice yet... though I plan to Master this exciting profession one day.
Lod-Reh SaJon ~ StarSider
What matters is that a Master in a proffession should always produce better results than a novice. Anything else and your penalizing people for advancing in the proffession. I don't think Tal-N is complaining about the creature per se. (Although creatures like this will cause the Devs to nerf all BE's if we're not careful. It needs to be fixed properly for that reason as well. It also penalizes people with CH because this is as good as any creature I've seen for the current 4000 CH) I thinkTal-N's primary complaint is that whether a creature is CL 10, CL 50 or CL 70 the best ones should be made by a master. The best(and only) DX2 pistol is made by a master weaponsmith. D18 pistols can be made by any weaponsmith. The best D18's are still made by masters though. Thats the way the game was built and designed and is the way the game should work.
PyrealGnat wrote:
btw, that 40% to everything, 4000 HAM monster still gets ripped to shreds, so don't cry imbalance. The NPC's are spamming specials like there is no tommorrow, as well as monsters. And I can barely get my pets to maintain aggro.
So what if I have a CL 10 pet that has 100,000 HAM if its not the tank, and I am?
AMDWS wrote:
Becareful what you ask for they may nerf the BE class that just got some love!!
If Personally I dont think a Master BE should be able to make low lvl pets at all. A master BE should be able to make the best pets ever seen tho above lvl 30 lets say. This would give Novice BE something to strive for and give them a reason to be. I see alot of amazing pets on this board that are low lvl but only a few of the High lvl pets. Where are the masters that are making the lvl 60+ 15kHAM light armor 60% kinetic 80% energy Monsters?
So Master architects shouldn't be able to make small houses, medium harvestors or any of the beggining furniture? Master Armorsmiths shouldn't be able to make Mabari/chitin armor or shield generator 1s? Come on! What about the masters who are don't have explore 4? They should be restricted to making clones they can't get the DNA for?
The only way I should have to fear a nerf is if this bug doesn't get fixed. Novice BE's making these creatures are using an exploit which is likely to get both BE and CH nerfed. If this exploit is fixed then I don't think I need to worry about being nerfed because the rest of the system does not seem exploitative or unbalancing.
I have yet to read about a novice that has made a pet more than 2-3k ham.
maybe I dont have my facts straight, but from what I can read here on the boards, it is you who is confused... I have been diligently watching this board, just because YOU dont know the SECRET you ASSUME.. it makes a ... hmmmmm out of ya.
Are you folks absolutely sure you aren't able to make the cl10 monsters that the novice BE's have been making?
Have you tried inbreeding and introducing junk/low DNA in a template? Have you tried using small skins?
I know I am just "passing through" your profession but I just want to share a few ideas I have. Under the new system I thing they should revamp how the BEexperimentation processis handled. Instead of the click a bubble and experiment, actuall values for the stats you wish to experiment up or down could be entered kinda like the stat migration system for Player Charactors. How close you get to the target value entered depends on the type of success you have
- an amazing success with hit the target dead on
- a great success will move the value of the stat close to the target value but just short of it
- a good success will move the stat in the proper direction but it will not hit the target
- a success will be the same as a good success to a lesser degree
- a marginal success will only make a marginal change in the proper direction
- a marginal failure will make a marginal change in the wrong direction
- a failure will make a larger change in the wrong direction
- a big failure will move the target stat in the wrong direction, and could unpredictable changes to other stats as well
- a critical failure will have a large undisired effect on the stat(s) being experimented and lock them out from further experimentation. Random effects could happen to other stats not being experimented.
The difficulty rating on each experiment would be dependent on the difference between the current values of the stats and the target value of the stats. All the specials from the DNA samples could be listed and experimented in or out. Resistance values could be experimented up or down(depending on the original DNA) , and should have an option to experiment "out" as a means to lower overall CL. Also it would be nice under the new system if the current CL of the creature was listed as well as a current HAM. Possibly a one time experiment to "clip" a BE creature to a certain CL could be added. This could be on a pass/fail system and the success rate would depend on the BE's experimental and crafting ability as well as the CL of the DNA templet to be "clipped". Some more thought would be needed on how "unwanted" experimental results are truely unwanted instead of a means of getting a better creature by misuse of the system
just an idea
AMDWS,
the thing is, the issue youbring up about whether or not novices deserve a piece of the pie, or whether or not masters should be able to make low level pets has already been debated, and decided. That's ancient history. The policy, right or wrong, in all crafting classes in SWG is that master can make everything, and make them better than novices. So saying that no, that's wrong, and it should be changed for the BE class only, and only for clones,really doesn't hold up too well. You really don't have a leg to stand on with that argument. The fact that this new BE system has an exploit (or bug, or flaw, or whatever you want to call it) that gives novices this ability is clearly an oversight, and one strangely enough that I predicted a couple months ago when we were hearing about this new system. And yea, it does need tobe fixed.
I love this new system, the developer did a GREAT job implementing it, it's far exceeded all of my expectations, but to me the biggest flaw in it right now, is that for masters, creating a good low level pet is actually a lot harder then creating a good high level pet. You wouldn't think that would/should be the case, but it is true.
AMDWS wrote:
Becareful what you ask for they may nerf the BE class that just got some love!!
If this game is to work like it they said it would then dont the Novice BE's deserve a little piece of the pie? A novice armorsmith makes Malbari, Chiten, Tantel, Ubese and Padded while the Master AS makes Composite and RIS. Vary seldom do you see them making much else. I personally make Ubese and Composite, I can make RIS but it isnt worth the effort.
I think you are missing the point in that a Novice BE has a chance to mess up and this accidently causes the pet to be vary nice, but how often do you think this is going to happen? It isnt like they want to fail or that they can fail on purpose. I think the fact that this can happen is a good thing and here is why. Sometimes things dont happen as planed and good things come of it. They do not always work to your advantage either. I think it is pretty cool that miricles do happen on occasion. Like an exceptional child is born from 2 ordinary parents.
Personally I dont think a Master BE should be able to make low lvl pets at all. A master BE should be able to make the best pets ever seen tho above lvl 30 lets say. This would give Novice BE something to strive for and give them a reason to be. I see alot of amazing pets on this board that are low lvl but only a few of the High lvl pets. Where are the masters that are making the lvl 60+ 15kHAM light armor 60% kinetic 80% energy Monsters?
This is not a shot or an attack just a kinda thinking out loud kinda thing and before you say shuddup you are only a MAS what do you know? I have 4 accounts 1 is a Master BE and Master Doc that I enjoy one is a Master CH that i plan to make pets so I know alittle about a few things.
I also agree with Tal-N on this one. It appears that creature level is just another product at the end of a complex equation calculated at combine.
I for one believe that CL should be a number determined by the amount of HAMa creature has, amount of resists, amount of armor, etc.
For instance, for each 1000 bar of HAM, 2 should be added to a creature's level. 1000/1000/1000 would start out as having a base 6 CL, if the creature had armor, that adds 5 to a CL, for each 10% resist, 1 added to CL, etc.
This seems to be the fair way to approach final CL. When all is said and done, I truly do not believe that any non-CH should even be able to control a creature with 6000 HAM, period.
Right well we've seen this posted several times now. Pets which are around 40% to everything but with 4000 HAM and yet they're CL10. Now I dunno about the rest of you but the second I look at something like that I'm seeing an imbalance. Infact one whereby a novice BE is able to create something a master cannot because we never get any 'low success' rates which is the root of these creations.
Frankly if you have dna that contains 6000 HAM then if someone screws up the assembly if should drop to around 10% of that total not simply low a few thousand from the top. If anything a low success needs to create something so weak that it'd be better to just throw it away. For a master to pull off something like that we need to inbreed like hell and take numberous shortcuts. Indeed even with my Hardened Angler I had to sacrifice almost everything just to get it around CL15 yet a novice is able to screw up and produce something better. That's just plain wrong and needs to be addressed.
Get DNA off of a newbie and compair it
It could be just the DNA causing this, and not the low success.
And if low successes caused horrible mutants, I'd never make anything over 50 HAM.
btw, that 40% to everything, 4000 HAM monster still gets ripped to shreds, so don't cry imbalance. The NPC's are spamming specials like there is no tommorrow, as well as monsters. And I can barely get my pets to maintain aggro.
So what if I have a CL 10 pet that has 100,000 HAM if its not the tank, and I am?