Bio Engineer Archive

Before I get started, this is not a price check thread

I was browsing my Galaxy Trade forums, and noticed a thread selling cl10 10k HAM, 59% Kin, 44% Blast pets. After following it for a little while, Im a bit shocked...

The recipe for this pet is readily available on this board, in fact I have posted it myself a few times.

When I made these pets, I charged 150k, and when I tried to increase the price to 400k, I got 1*d by people (Even Zad thought I was charging too much)

Anyway...back to the thread I am talking about. It is an auction/order request for these pets, and the price tag is 750k, and 1mill for mounts (Although he does grow them for you). even more surprising is the interest in these pets. All 10 of his pets have sold, and he has orders for more.

Even with less money floating around, people are able to sell these creatures for 2.5x the price I got 1*d for. Im not saying that he is ripping people off, Im just surprised that he is *ABLE* to ask for that much.

Im just wondering what people here think is a fair price for these? (Again, Im not asking for a price check, just people opinions on how much our time is worth, as the resource cost in making these is negligable)

Oh yeah, and if anyone wants the recipe, and can't find it using a search, mail me and I'll tell you.

Message Edited by Zigabob on 02-16-2005 07:33 AM

I just read the auction thread. I am surprised at the level of interest in these pets. I know they are used to level up novice Jedi and such, but still at 750k and 1mil for a mount it seems unreasonable.

If I recall correctly these are 2nd gen pets. With DNA that is not that hard to get. So let's say 20min each if you made them in batches of 6 like the guy selling them was. That means he's making 2.25 mil per hour per batch for non-mounts, and 3mil for mounts. Wow! Normally I'm for fair pricing, but if this keeps up, then I'll happily step over to the price gouging world.

Do I think it's a fair price? Absolutly not.

Message Edited by ArthurDentOnBria on 02-16-2005 11:20 AM

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PlainWhiteSocks wrote:

I agree that these pets are an attempt to get more skill points. I also see that it's the same thing that is happening in other areas. For example I've seen a CDEF carbine with 240 damage. It was a loot item, but I've seen more of these, that's just the one I remember the damage on.

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This is completely different. As you progress through a elite combat profession, you pick up skill modifiers such as speed, accuracy, special moves etc. However, with creatures this is not the case. A non-ch can still use all commands taught to it by other handlers, he can still use its special abilities. A MCH will perform at the exact same level as a non-ch with the same pet. However, if a master carbineer were to use an identical CDEF carbine against someone without novice marksman, i think it's clear who would win the fight. Personally, the CH needs profession needs some 'effeciency' modifier that allows them to use pet commands quicker, or to reduce response times in a similar way that weapon speed modifiers work.

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ArthurDentOnBria wrote:

This is one of the arguments against these pets actually. Consider this:

At 75k, a beautilful 3-generation CL 35 pet requiring all kinds of exotic dna (BMBQ, thunes, grauls, etc) is often considered expensive, although it takes many many hours to make and will kick butt on the battlefield.

At 1mil - 2 mil, a 10k HAM, 60% CL 10 pet, made in 2 generations from dna from a single planet, requiring mainly yard trash and dna from a static spawn is an absolute steal that people "line up around the block" to get their hands on, even though it has only modest utility on the battle field.

Why? It's because you are essentially buying yourself skill points. You're buying essentially novice ch, and a few boxes of CH skills without spending a single skill point, and credits are a lot easier to come by than skill points. It's actually a lot like purchasing those "pre-nerf" weapons that required no cirtification to use. As weapons, they are not particularly good weapons, but it's the fact that you are essentially buying the skill points to use them that makes them valuable. It would be no different if we could buy something that healed battle fatigue without entertainer skills, or allowed you to survey without artisan skills. A flora survey device is worth 1k on the bazar. A flora survey device that works without any cirtifications, is worth millions

Message Edited by ArthurDentOnBria on 02-16-2005 11:20 AM

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I agree that these pets are an attempt to get more skill points. I also see that it's the same thing that is happening in other areas. For example I've seen a CDEF carbine with 240 damage. It was a loot item, but I've seen more of these, that's just the one I remember the damage on.

With the CURB comming up and one of it's goals being to balance all the combat professions (as stated by SOE on the public forums) I really just don't see these pets as problem. Maybe if things weren't going to be changing I would have a different opinion. For now, I'll just wait and see what will come.

The fact that other BE's (alts maybe?) are making these and making a killing on them does not make it right or wrong to make them. It does make it hard not to.

Supply and demand...

Just get crafting if you want a share of it. I can't say that I am happy with that kind of pets around, but I don't think levelling jedi care about what may happen in a month or two if they get their xp faster now. Credits are cheap, jedi xp and skill points are not.

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Zadokk wrote:

This is completely different. As you progress through a elite combat profession, you pick up skill modifiers such as speed, accuracy, special moves etc. However, with creatures this is not the case. A non-ch can still use all commands taught to it by other handlers, he can still use its special abilities. A MCH will perform at the exact same level as a non-ch with the same pet. However, if a master carbineer were to use an identical CDEF carbine against someone without novice marksman, i think it's clear who would win the fight. Personally, the CH needs profession needs some 'effeciency' modifier that allows them to use pet commands quicker, or to reduce response times in a similar way that weapon speed modifiers work.

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AGREED 100%. I'm all for the idea of taming and training, but mastering CH should make you more efficient in using pets, not just able to use better pets.

If that elusive "to hit" value is all about the frequency and effectiveness of specials, as one poster hypothesized, then perhaps one of the CH trees should have a modifier on that value. Perhaps another should add a pet defensive bonus (similar to player defensive bonuses), both of which increase the higher you go. Even a small but cumulative bonus might end up having a greater effect in the long run.

On the CH forums, they constantly ask for pet armor, even if it is just for show. Perhaps using armor or other modifications to pets should require certifications earned in the CH tree.

I think any or all of these might help out the CH profession somewhat and lessen the impact of the non-CH pets on the profession as a whole.

A240 damage cdef carbine???? UGH!!! That's higher than my DX-2.

Imagine a TKM with ranged weapons with comparable damage at each optimal range. Add to him a level 10 pet with 400 damage and light armor (which I would see as the CH equivalent). Suddenly you have the required template for all combatants. I really hope that sort of damage weapon is rare indeed. Otherwise, why bother becoming a master at anything?

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Hylidex wrote:

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Zadokk wrote:

This is completely different. As you progress through a elite combat profession, you pick up skill modifiers such as speed, accuracy, special moves etc. However, with creatures this is not the case. A non-ch can still use all commands taught to it by other handlers, he can still use its special abilities. A MCH will perform at the exact same level as a non-ch with the same pet. However, if a master carbineer were to use an identical CDEF carbine against someone without novice marksman, i think it's clear who would win the fight. Personally, the CH needs profession needs some 'effeciency' modifier that allows them to use pet commands quicker, or to reduce response times in a similar way that weapon speed modifiers work.

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AGREED 100%. I'm all for the idea of taming and training, but mastering CH should make you more efficient in using pets, not just able to use better pets.

If that elusive "to hit" value is all about the frequency and effectiveness of specials, as one poster hypothesized, then perhaps one of the CH trees should have a modifier on that value. Perhaps another should add a pet defensive bonus (similar to player defensive bonuses), both of which increase the higher you go. Even a small but cumulative bonus might end up having a greater effect in the long run.

On the CH forums, they constantly ask for pet armor, even if it is just for show. Perhaps using armor or other modifications to pets should require certifications earned in the CH tree.

I think any or all of these might help out the CH profession somewhat and lessen the impact of the non-CH pets on the profession as a whole.

A 240 damage cdef carbine???? UGH!!! That's higher than my DX-2.

Imagine a TKM with ranged weapons with comparable damage at each optimal range. Add to him a level 10 pet with 400 damage and light armor (which I would see as the CH equivalent). Suddenly you have the required template for all combatants. I really hope that sort of damage weapon is rare indeed. Otherwise, why bother becoming a master at anything?

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hmmmm.... I need to read-up on CH I think. It was my impression that if a non-ch and a ch paired off against each other using the same quality pet the CH would win hands down. I thought they had some special commands that only a CH could do that would tip the scales in their favor.

If not, then they really should have. In fact this could be a solution to this whole lvl10 problem.

The master carbine vs noob argument sounds good on the surface, but isn't quite a parallel situation. Although, you're point was understood. If we consider pets as a CH's weapons (a practice I do not entirely like), it is clear that CH pets are superior to any non-CH pet. I wasn't compairing Carbiner skills/weapons to a non-marksman. I was only illustrating that skill points can be had in other ways besides CL10 pets.

Bottom line, this whole CL10 issue has been going on since they made the changes over a year ago. We are no closer to a solution than we were back then. The difference this time is that somebody is out there making a bunch of credits off these pets. So now we get to ask the question "Is it worth making these things for general use/sale?" For some it will be. For others it won't.

That CDEF carbine is reletively rare. I've only seen a few weapons like it. In fact it's entirely possible they got rid of this type of thing in the current loot drops.

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ArthurDentOnBria wrote:

I know there are, what, 2-3 "abilities" that a ch gets in that third column of their tree, but I've never used those. Maybe someone can comment on their effectiveness, I sure don't know (and I think my CH even qualifies to use them but I never have... doh!).

But with weapons of course, a good "special" pushes up the damage, what, 5x or more over the base value of the weapon? There is definitely nothing of that magnitude for CH's right?

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PlainWhiteSocks wrote:

hmmmm.... I need to read-up on CH I think. It was my impression that if a non-ch and a ch paired off against each other using the same quality pet the CH would win hands down. I thought they had some special commands that only a CH could do that would tip the scales in their favor.

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Well they get Erange, embolden and mount. AFAIK, only the latter is of any use and as we all know - it is single use and then can be used by anyone. Enraged and embolden are useless afaik.