Bio Engineer Archive

I've started a thread on the main discussion board concerning the fact that several Medic, Doctor and BE recipes are flawed. I started putting this list together after a weapon schematic change on test which resulted in the same kind of flaws as our recipes have always had got prompt attention and change from TH and the devs. Needless to say we need the same thing. The thread is here:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Development&message.id=930741

The affected BE schematics are:
RECIPES WHERE NONE OF THE INGREDIENTS PROVIDE THE REQUIRED PROPERTY:
ALL Bio-engineer Creatures- Nothing has UT
Passive Tranquilizers- Milk can't be found; Bone gives neither Flavor or PE
Macrosodial Tetramite- Milk can't be found
Active Tranquilizers- Milk can't be found; Bone gives neither Flavor or PE
Macrosodial Pentamate- Milk can't be found

RECIPES WHERE AT LEAST ONE INGREDIENT DOES NOT PROVIDE THE REQUIRED PROPERTY:
MANY Medic/Doctor/BE meds (including BECs/Stims/Pet Stims/Woundpacks/ Enhances)- nothing gives BOTH UT and PE, only one or the other
Myoflex- Flora Structural and Scaley Hide do not give Flavor or PE
Devaronian Alipedene- Floral Structural does not give Flavor or PE
Passive Biosensors- Flora Structural does not give Flavor or PE
Scent Camouflage- Flora Structural does not give Flavor or PE
Visual Camouflage- Flora Structural does not give Flavor or PE
Pet Stimpack-B- Fiberplast does not give PE; Fungus does not give UT
Toughened Fibers- Bone and Hide do not give Flavor or PE
Personaphene- Creature Structural does not give Flavor or PE
Enhanced Myoflex- Flora Structural and Scaley Hide do not give Flavor or PE
Coagulant Agents- Bones do not give Flavor or PE
Active Biosensors- Flora Structural does not give Flavor or PE
Scent Neutralization- Flora Structural and Avian Bones do not give Flavor or PE
Tensile Resistance- Bone and Hide do not give Flavor or PE
Refined Alipidene- Flora Structural does not give Flavor or PE

I agree with everything except the last part. I don't see problem with a schematic where every ingredient doesn't give every value. This is quite common, and it just means that you have to pay close attention to which ingredients are providing which values and make sure they are high!

You can find milk. It just takes a few months to get enough for one tissue. Pray to the gods you don't critical fail when you craft with it though.

The fact certain materials lack certain stats are indeed by design, sometimes you'll find some components have a material for each stat. As for milk... one stack of debris on Talus which has a habit of spawning animal resouces giving youa 1/8 chance of it being milk and 2/8 that it'll be handy for bio-eng rarishproducts isn't what I'd call available. It's a mistake which we happen to find handy.

bah I can't do charts.

Basically if there is 1 material with the attribute, that attrubute will be averaged with itself when another materail has no attruibute.

If both, all 3, all 11 materials, have the arribute, all will be averaged.

if no materials have the attribute, it will be a 0 for all (base value).

Nobody is quite sure what happens, if ther are 3 materials 2 with, and 1 without tge attribute.... but the results are higher then if it were a zero (theory has it the existing numbers are averaged, and the missiong one is ignored.

If these became zeros, a whole lot of crafting would go right in the toilet. SO a serious look needs to be had at the whole crafting system

-T

when holo did his big crafting guide near the beginning of live, he expressed that the missing trait is considered 0. and it is a weighted average. you can test this out with Bio Effect Controllers. Use an inorganic that has no PE and compare the results withinorganic that has a PE. I think that was the one, it may be the chem release.

Thanks Traigus! That moved my educated guess up to verified theory .

/sigh

He cross posted this to the swg forums as well, so I won't bother replying except to say that this is not a bug, it works as intended.

If a required quality is not there then it is ignored in the final quality equation thus giving you better chances at higher quality results.

Play with it. learn it, love it.

No, actually he is right.

The missing attributes are supposed to be zero (we have dev confirm on that).

Crafting needs to be looked at.

What he is wrong (or misleading about) is that this is currently on TC. All crafting changes are on hold until all of te schematics can be checked for "impossible" requirements... meaning mandatory materials that can never fulfill the attribute requitrements.

So, if the Schematic requires OQ,PE and UT, then their either has to be at least 1 resource with all 3 that can go into any particular slot, or the schematics have to be changed to make the zeros go away.

Crafting ignoring missing attributes is bad... because a material with no attribute is actualy better then a material with an attribute.

material 1 material 2 value in tool
300 300 300
100 300 200
nothing 300 300


Should be

0 300 150


-T

I'm not so sure that this is a problem in all cases. A few weeks ago a Master Doc and I did an expiriment with CRDM's. Noticing the things are Organic + Chemical, the % breakdown is 66% OQ and 33% PE, and that the only chemical that has PE is the liquid petrochemicals, we tested various chemicals. Using a nice organic in the first slot, we used a liquid petrochemical with high OQ/PE in the second slot to make a power 16 CRDM after expirimentation. Then, using that same organic in the first slot and some fiberplast with close OQ to the liquid petrochemical in the second, we made a CRDM with.... power 16. The results were very close in potential expirimentation %. In other words, I'm not so sure if the crafting system NEEDS all stats on all materials to create a nice item, it may just need one with the stat present (in this case PE) to configure into the formula. But we're still screwed when it comes to something like a cloning recipe that asks for UT and no UT ingredient is an option .