Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: Is it my imagination or...
.. are the majority of CHs kiddies who simply want to be in the most powerful profession possible?
I mean I don't have anything against the CHs as a whole but from reading their forums alot of these people complaining about this 'nerf' are basing their arguments onthe fact their Rancor can no longer solo a Kimogila! How is that even an argument? It's the eqivilent of a novice brawler moaning that they cannot solo a Fambaa. I've already posted this on their forums, no doubt it'll be quickly 1 starred me have people calling me a troll and continuing to moan that they were nerf'd.
It just seems that alot of the CH population is made up of people who are so narrow sighted that it's incredible. They see their Grauls are still the same CL but they no longer have light armor and 75% kinetic resistance so it's clearly a step down from what they used to be, however it now means its a critter which will almostalways beat down something which is a lower CL and almost always lose to a higher one. They also forget that all enemies in the game suffer from this rebalancing so there will no longer be those god awful 100% resistant Nightsisters who can only be hurt by kinetic and blast damage. They have very much been nerf'd but it's something which benefits the players.
And then there's the complaints about the new CH restructuring... oh no, my 4/4/0/0 doesn't give me a Rancor. It would be nice to have them actually look a bit further than themselves and see that people who actually invest in CH gain benefits over the dabblers as intended. There should only be one optimum approach to the profession and that is to master it. I personally congratulate the MCHs on finally coming out on top through all this and I'd bet there isn't a single one who doesn't like the new structuring.
But something does make me chuckle, they're acting as if they'll need to ditch their current pets to find the new 'good' species for their current level. However as we all know that isn't going to happen since the difference between one CL30 critter and another is very much a mininal one rather than the huge obvious differences that occoured in the past.
I do appologise to the CHs who actually see the benefit of these changes, you are the enlightened few indeed. The CHs have almost always been seen as the 'spoilt brat' in this family of professions, they've thrown the most tantrums and had a hell of alot of attention thrown their way, but mainly it's been because it's always been an overpowered profession with benefits that were unbalanced with how most professions work so the kiddies flock to it and make alot of noise. With this final 'nerf' making the profession and the game alot morebalanced you're gonna see those kiddies run off now since they have to play fair. And just like kiddies I can already see the '..and im taking my ball with me' mentality cropping up as they threaten to cancel their account.
So I guess this is both a slap and a congratulations for the CHs. I slap the idiots who don't understand and congratulate the people who are going to be freed from those who have been dragging the profession's reputationdownhill for all this time.
Gee, and what reputation might that be you could be asking...
"Let me make this simple for you fool. The Rancor sucked before and they nerfed it. Then they adjusted stats accordingly to a sucky ass cl50 creature. You freakin' wining **edit** can keep this game cause I dont want it. Screw all you newbies for sucking at this game. your making this a freakin' Kiddie game, when most who play it are adults. Go cry in your mom's bossoms and leave my forum alone at least. Freakin lurkers, trolls, whiney, **edit**!"
I love it when people prove me right.
Tal-N
I wouldn't say most Ch's just most of those vocalizing now.
Most of the people I saw upset by the changes to the graul were "insert combat profession flavor of the month with creature support", not folks who use thier pets to do the kill. They lost thier best meatshield even though folks new it would happen. I didn't say dabblers versus masters, because I've seen enough Master Ch with Commando 0/0/4/0 to last a lifetime. Folks, dabbler or not, used it as a crutch and Th said that would change. People had their warning, they just chose to disregard it.
As a master Ch this change does affect me, I have a couple of grauls and graul maulers, they were so specialized against other creatures that they were too good to miss.As long asall versions, wild and tamed,of this creature are the same I don't really care.So I don't count that as a nerf of the class, just of the creature. As I see itthe devs only had two choicesin bringing the graul into linewith the rest of the animal kingdom,what they did or beefing up the Cl of the mauler to at least 45. You thinkthe Ch community ismad now, think of what that would have meant. The increase in level and the change to how control works now would be horrifying.
Right now a 2/2/0/0 can control a mauler on liveon test howeverit nowtakes a 4/4/0/0 (or 3/3/3/2) but at cl 45 it would be 4/3/3/3. At a minimum 10 more skill points for a weakened pet(or 32 in the alternative for the same) both are unpalatable if you're running short of points.I think that is where the anger is coming from.
For myself I'll still have a graul, especially if I can create one with reddish fur like the frenzied. I loved the way that looked. Heck maybe I can get on up to thier previous abilities.
Tal-N, much as I respect your views on BE issues, plus just be quiet about CH until you walk in our shoes a while.
For a start, once a couple of stupid decisions on the new tree structure were reversed, the vast majority of CH were firmly behind the idea. Any claims that 'alot of the CH population' didn't approve are false, pure and simple.
Second, the very fact that you think a rancor can solo a kimogila clearly shows you have no clue whatsoever about CH, or even combat. FYI, a rancor would last 20 seconds against a kimo, if that. Even a mauler, the best tank we had access to, would get decimated without significant healing, and if a bleed stuck forget about it. The only time I have even tried a kimo was in a group of 6 of us, both my maulers would have died in seconds if not for the doctor healing and stopping bleeding on them. Yanno, heaven forbid a group of players should actually be able to combine skills and take out a tough mob, what is the world coming to.
CH are far from the most powerful profession. You must be getting us confused with TKA, pistoleers, commandos and BH. You do know that TKA are capable of soloing the final part of the act 2 badge quest, don't you? And pretty easily, from the one I saw. Yet we see them getting more increases in power patch after patch.
Consider this a slap back, for posting about subjects you clearly are not qualified to comment on, and try again once you actually know one end of a blaster from another or that /tellpet attack then sitting on your backside for 5 minutes is not the way a CH goes about his business, ok?
The fact isn't that the Graul is now weaker, it's the fact it's on par with every other CL35 critter. If your a master and use two of them against a CL50 rancor you'll win but with some majorwhich is very fair on the whole. However taking them in against a CL90 Kimogila should mean almost certain death because thats quite literally CL70 vs CL90.
Now THAT is a fair system on the whole, you can't get more fair than that. Yes the grauls are weaker, so don't take on anything which is too high for you. There's not much in the game which is over CL70 so your hardly losing out. It also means that if you pair up a CL50 Rancor with a CL20 critter then you'll get similar results as with the Grauls, however because of the higher resistance the Rancor has you might actually get better results. Nothing has been nerf'd really, especially since the Rancor is now able to take on more enemies because they're on even footing.
Some got weaker, some got stronger. It all depends on your point of view if this is a good or a bad change. People who focus on their own little corner (and since CHs are typically soloists so it explains how they prefer to think of themselves primarally) see only what they lose. If they looked at the big picture they'd see they're better off.
Tal-N, much as I respect your views on BE issues, plus just be quiet about CH until you walk in our shoes a while.
Tal'N Chratk.Shadowfire. Commando/CH.
Only yesturday took my Gronda called Dumbo to Dantooine and solo'd a lair of CL40 Slinking voriter hunters with only novice commando skills. I shouldn't have been able to do that so I know full well that some species are overpowered under thecurrent system. I'm expecting my Malkloc and Gronda to lose their 50% kinetic resistance now, but I welcome this new system cause it's fair.
So don't start preaching to me at how I don't understand this because I haven't played it. The day a CL18 pet can allow you to solo critters that are almost twice it's level with minimal damage is the day when you know something is very unbalanced.
A majority of creature handlers are not the idiots you're seeing on the boards, anymore so then most classes (except the rare, usually broken, few) are represented by the ALL CAPS awful punctuation posters on other boards. At the same time, the creatures they use as weapons and have grown accustomed toare being drastically changed, so I dont blame them right now for being a bit concerned.
Right now the the vocal (board) community of ch's are raising a ruckus, and every troll has been attracted to the flames, its pure ugly.
But thats not the four or five of the "extended family" of ch's I talk to on a daily basis. Many, if not a majority, of creature handlers are regular customers of BEs and have expressed hope for the coming cloning changes.
"I do appologise to the CHs who actually see the benefit of these changes, you are the enlightened few indeed. The CHs have almost always been seen as the 'spoilt brat' in this family of professions, they've thrown the most tantrums and had a hell of alot of attention thrown their way, but mainly it's been because it's always been an overpowered profession with benefits that were unbalanced with how most professions work so the kiddies flock to it and make alot of noise. With this final 'nerf' making the profession and the game alot morebalanced you're gonna see those kiddies run off now since they have to play fair. And just like kiddies I can already see the '..and im taking my ball with me' mentality cropping up as they threaten to cancel their account. "
Ok lets clear something up here, for the most part your post isnt something i disagree with, however......about the underlined part of your post....are you NUTS?!? CH is not an overpowered profession, a "pure" CH has no power whatsoever, stop calling them overpowered. The thing that makes everyone THINK CHs are overpowered is the one thing they fixed in this patch (and im certainly glad they did, i personally HATE Graul Maulers!).Creatures were balanced to creatures, then balanced to players. So stop calling CHs overpowered because they arent, in the current live system CREATURES are overpowered, not CHs.
Khel - Flurry
MCH/Pistoleer
One thing that really upset me when i got higher levels in MCH was the Rancor. In PvE, it really isnt that great compaired to a lot of the other pets out their, especially the GM thats 16 lvls lower. I always figured that the rancor should have been the toughest pet out their. Mainly because its the creature that i remember the most from the Star Wars Movies. hmm, what was that other creature that almost ate Luke.
bah, now im tired and dont remember where i was going with this post.
I for one am excited about the changes coming to both CH and BE. If i was still a dabbler in CH, I would hate the changes coming up, i'm sure.
Now if they will just get rid of those darn Holos so people will get back to playing the game, instead of grinding through professions they will never take seriously.
Maybe it's true that the profession isn't powerful in of itself, however even a master CH still has points to spend elsewhere and the fact still remains that a CL35 Graul could be very effectively used to clobber a Rancor to death which meant things were very much overpowered since even a master could have twoof them active at once. That is what i mean by overpowered. A pure master CH should not be able to atually beat down anything higher than CL70 and that is basically as simple as it gets, sure the animals specials moves make a difference however even the enemy can swing the battle with a well placed intimidation attack.
Anyway, once again I am sorry for venting at you.
No problem, I brush off flames and things like this quite easily. One of the drawback to ranting is that you often don't think about what your saying. Asking a master bio-engineer if they even know how much damage a CL90 Kimogila dishes out it a bit like asking if a commando knows what damage a cryoban grenade does
Yes, I'm very much aware of the situation with Kimo since I've many times been on the recieving end of them plus i see their stats each time I craft one. As for the situation with the voriter lizards try to remember that I'm a novice commando. Meaning i have utterly no skills with the heavy weapons and my accuracy is +10 using them. I was also using the HAR at the time since those lizards are very heat resistant so on the whole I was a novice, using a CL18 pet and a broken heavyweapon yet I still cleared out their lair with the minimal of hassle. I didn't even use any bleeds cause I wanted the maximum exp from them.
By all accounts though the pet should have totally wasted by the time I managed to kill just a single one of them. But look at what a Gronda is like when you break down the numberswhat with the 5500 HAM, then the 25% reduction from the light armor meaning that a single pool could take 6875 damage. Then you have the 50% kinetic resistance added after that meaning that my little Gronda is actually able to take a minimum of 10312 damage which is equal to around a CL50 critter (one without resistances mind you). That just shows why they changed the system to what it is.
Any TKA could do the same, as could riflemen, pistoleers and carbineers, and all those take fewer skill points than CH.
A TKA can be very quickly killed as long as they're outside 10m with the person who is shooting suffering zero damage. I've personally witnessed a TKA/Doctor solo a Giant Kimogila and totally crush it within around 2 mins, she even mentioned that she can kill a Rancor in less than 12 seconds. Thats very impressive but despite all that power I could pull out a rocket launcher and kill her in one or two hits before she could lay a finger on me if needed. That is what balance is all about, not just raw number crunching but also 'how' they work and their limitations. On the whole a TKA master is deadly in close combat but totally hopeless at everything else. Taking the other extreme, I can cause major damage at range however as soon as the target gets close to me I'm toast even if I unequip my weapon to avoid the damage multiplier. Again that is balanced even though commando's are a hybrid so they should get additional bonuses over basic elite professions (but thats a seperate story)
As for your complaints about late fixes and such I think you need to step back again and look at the big picture. The CH has been given the bulk of the attention for the past 6 months while professions like the chef and smuggler have been given utterly none. I'd say while you have been reduced in power again and again since beta (then again you started off high so I can see why it's been a string of nerfs) you certainly have alot more working than some of the less fortunate professions so be grateful.