Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: With CU changes we MUST be able to sample our own creations in inventory without killing them!
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tacwraith
Tue May 31, 2005 7:19 am
#1
Honestly, this has gone beyond ridiculous SOE.
Im MBE/MCH/BH 0310 (where else to put them points? heh).
Trying to get DNA is an exercise in futility. The level drop we take from being MBE means any creature above lev 60 will aggro us instantly.. and no, ranger camo applied by a ranger+walking to targetdoes NOT help at all.
To make things worse, the pets we make that require that damn hard to get DNA DIEwhen sampled in inventory... and the DNA samples we getfrom themdo not reflect the creature we created..at ALL.
For example, I sample an angler from the wild... the dna we take hasstats all in the 400's or 500's+ .
I make an angler using many different DNAsamples and it ends up being with more HAM, more attack power, more to-hit and more everything than its wild counterpart... and I sample it andget just 2 or 3 statsabove 500 (which do reflect it being better than its wild counterpart) but all theother stats are either ZERO or in the low 100's.
So we Bio Engineers get triple nerfed now because:
1) Acquisition of DNAhas become exponentially dangerous &6 dna samples required for just 1 creation
2) The DNA acquired from clone creatures which are BETTER than wild counterparts is much worse than the wild counterpart.
3) Sampling our own pet creations kill the clones in 1 to 3 samples average. Making generational cloning largely an effort in futility and not worth it.
4) Bio Engineered pets lost their biggest value: their specials, now that CH cannot order pets to do special attacks. Pets now cannot even match a novice combat class in damage output, therefore pets are once again, nothing more than meat shields.
What I suggest SOE do:
1) Have Master Architects make 'Bio Lab' buildings for Bio Engineers.
2) Have Master Artisans make 'sample containers' similar to nemodian bird cage and the creature container thingies. These will be used to store creature pets. PETS IN THESE CONTAINERS CAN BE SAMPLED OVER AND OVER AGAIN WITHOUT CREATURE DYING. See #3
3) Sampling Containers can be used only 20 times per 12 hours. Meaning a BE can only sample one creature 20 times every 12 hours.
#1-#3 solves the BE's problem of not being able to craft creatures. BE really now is no more than wild-dna collector and mixer, doing generational cloning only serves to worsen the clone created.
4) DNA Templates should be treated as DATA not inventory. This will allow BE's to store lots of dna templates in droids/datapad and allow better use of your house & inventory space.
5) Add weapon to master bio engineer= Tranquilizer Rifle. Simply put, the gun makes creatures snared and lose aggro.
6) Allow MBE's to sample creatures up to level 150. The reason for this is that it will allow the creation of 'strains' for use in our clone pets. It is of no use to us to clone a level 150 creature since we cannot sell it to CH's... but we can use a lev 150's high armor rating and through several generations of cloning and singling out the armor stat we can end up with a donor clone that will provide us with the needed DNA sample to creatures with good armor that CH's can use.
7) Add item to Novice Bio Engineer: DNA Scanner. Allows MBE to see the dna stats of a creature before sampling it. Think of it as like a tricorder 
Galbatorix
Tue May 31, 2005 7:34 am
#2
Even though atm i am still a wee lil 0010 BE (still working on it!!!) I hav to agree with this. Creature creation has been an interest of mine and one of the main reasons i am going BE. Good thinking!!! Maybe someday they might actually take somthin like this into concideration.
BuhamutLotde
Tue May 31, 2005 8:23 am
#3
Im kind of concerned how having infinitely sampleready high level pets will affect or profession. But the idea of an MBE building I'm all for... Genetics Laboratory 
Message Edited by BuhamutLotde on 05-31-2005 08:24 AM
ArthurDentOnBria
Tue May 31, 2005 10:43 am
#4
I dunno, this has been proposed many times before, and I think it's as bad an idea now as it ever was. It has all kinds of drawbacks:
1. It devalues dna sampling skills, and other similar skills (mask scent, cammo, tracking, combat)
2. It potentially radically increases the supply of "high end" pets server-wide, rewarding bio-engineers that are otherwise too lazy to create such pets.
3. It creates anti-competitive problems because once you've achieved some dynamite donor pets (through fortunate experimentation crit fails, or getting some dna from particularly rare creatures etc.), it could be very difficult on all your competitors given that you'll be able to replicate the "once-in-a-lifetime" stuff on a daily basis with virtually no effort. The really scary thing here in fact would be "bugged" or "pre-nerf" pets. Supposing someone had lying around, or was able to make a "bugged" pet. He could then replicate that over and over and over, and there would be no hope of competing with that.
4. It probably overly rewards being "12 point" much more than ever before, since the entire focus would now be on experimentation.
Message Edited by ArthurDentOnBria on 05-31-2005 12:14 PM
Siru
Tue May 31, 2005 11:49 am
#5
I am sorry to say this but the system is not like it was before, and if you compare it to that than you are comparing two different games.
Low Skilledf ppoeple were never able to beat up a Mountain Worrt, but now they are, we got stronger, and regardless if our pets are level 70 with only 6500 health or more, (got some with way mroe though), does not mean they suck, they are still really tough and can do some good damage, so i disagree, bio engineer was not nerfed, it was changed, for the BETTER.
Thank you SOE.
Galbatorix
Tue May 31, 2005 1:24 pm
#6
now afting reading wat arthur had wrote i realize the potential cons to this proposed system...it probably wouldnt work. I would still like to see a master BioE be able to sample higher lvl creatures than 75 (i think thats the cap i found reading through the forums) in order to make our pets more competitive to say the narglatches that the CH are all excited about. Oh and that is some very nice relief there lammergeier cuz i just did the grinding for that first dna box during double xp and it still took me several hours to complete!!!
lammergeier
Tue May 31, 2005 1:34 pm
#7
Galbatorix wrote:
now afting reading wat arthur had wrote i realize the potential cons to this proposed system...it probably wouldnt work. I would still like to see a master BioE be able to sample higher lvl creatures than 75 (i think thats the cap i found reading through the forums) in order to make our pets more competitive to say the narglatches that the CH are all excited about. Oh and that is some very nice relief there lammergeier cuz i just did the grinding for that first dna box during double xp and it still took me several hours to complete!!!
as I've noted in other threads, I surrendered all my DNA skills to re-xp them and get a feel for the process (not that I haven't done the entire DNA tree on three or more different toons... several times each... I just hadn't done it recently) and to make sure it still works, bottom to top.
lammergeier
Wed Jun 01, 2005 12:40 am
#8
ArthurDentOnBria wrote:
I dunno, this has been proposed many times before, and I think it's as bad an idea now as it ever was. It has all kinds of drawbacks:1. It devalues dna sampling skills, and other similar skills (mask scent, cammo, tracking, combat)2. It potentially radically increases the supply of "high end" pets server-wide, rewarding bio-engineers that are otherwise too lazy to create such pets.3. It creates anti-competitive problems because once you've achieved some dynamite donor pets (through fortunate experimentation crit fails, or getting some dna from particularly rare creatures etc.), it could be very difficult on all your competitors given that you'll be able to replicate the "once-in-a-lifetime" stuff on a daily basis with virtually no effort. The really scary thing here in fact would be "bugged" or "pre-nerf" pets. Supposing someone had lying around, or was able to make a "bugged" pet. He could then replicate that over and over and over, and there would be no hope of competing with that.4. It probably overly rewards being "12 point" much more than ever before, since the entire focus would now be on experimentation.Message Edited by ArthurDentOnBria on 05-31-2005 12:14 PM
I can only echo and support ArthurDent here, since he's made informed comments on this topic before.
if you want to examine the failure rates for sampling DNA, and the failure results, I'm open to some data. as I've said in the past, I think that mBioE ought to have less aggro fails than nBioE, which is definitely not the case with the current system. I'd also like to see better sampling at nBioE overall: the 10k xp for the first tier takes several times LONGER than the combined xp for tiers 3 and 4.
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