Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: Undocumented Crafting System = Bugged System
The crafting system is bugged, and by not telling the users how it's supposed to work just keeps all of us from pointing out the bugs.
My example of a bug is today I generated 5 mobs using samples all from the same type creature, each sample was fresh creature sample and all of them had Special 1, 2 and ranged attack.
All 5 creatures recieved the exact same experimentation, all Aggresion and Psyical. I produced 5 different results, no specials and ranged, special 1 only and ranged, special 2 only and ranged, special 1 only no ranged, and no specials and no ranged.
I used the same HIGH quality DNA in all 5.
So someone please tell me exactly how this system works? The developers don't hand out the formulas on crafting so you don't have anyway to check their work and report all the mistakes they made.
Personally I think they started working on something but then just kinda threw the rest of it together quick because the BE community was very frustrated with the system... sorta like the path to FSCS. It was this grand scheme and then all of the sudden we find out that the majority of it is just mastering professions. Gee.
The system is inadequate for our needs, though a closer step there.We should be able to be much more specific about what we want to create... not have to go through trial and error and post formulas that work but make no sense whatsoever.
That sums it up nicely.
Telling us how the system is supposed to work isn't "dumbing it down" and giving us a manual won't make collecting samples any easier.
Personally, I'd love to see a "walkthrough", with notes, from the Dev that designed the system where he makes a CL 35 Kaadu with Dizzy/Strong Posion, 8k HAM, a specific attack speed/to hit and resists. And then see him reproduce it...
Well we've come a long way in the past week, on the whole all this lack of information has done is make it harder to know if things are working as intended or not. Sure we're figuring things out but frankly there could be alot more bugs in there which we are not aware of. One more thing to, are they expecting the internal playtesters to know what to look for... the same playtesters who 2 months ago utterly failed to realise that 100% aggro from taking samples from animals wasn't intended? Even Holocron came in here and defended the fact that they don't know the profession as well as the players, to which many of us replied.. then why are they playtesters? Naturally we never got a reply however that does raise the point, is the playtesters don't know the system, the programmers don't thoroughly test the system and the players aren't told how the system is supposed to be working then who checks to see if it's working properly?
Hey guys....i am a non-BE but because of holo-grinding might pick it up because i ahve the base skills...
Anyway, my character isprimarily acrafter
It sounds like some of the BE stuff is working like some other areas of crafting.
Sometimes using the same materials and getting the same experiment ratings will just give you different results. As an example say an experimet value is for Effectiveness. One time it might be 15%, next item 22%, next 24%, then 22% as an average.
There are also items that are just random. Like power-ups. You choose say Muzzle. You have no control over if you craft a Muzzle of Lighting or Muzzle of Searing. Lets say you get 2 Muzzle of Searings in a row. One may have Range as the top modifer while the other may have damage.
But its just not BE that has no documentation. Nothing is actually explained for any crafting profession. Most of us are working off assumptions gleaned thru experience
I actually like the fact that there is some randomness in the final result. It kinda makes me feel like there's only so much a person can do to shape nature. Some of the oddball low-cl results I'm getting makes me doubt the whole system, though. I don't even touch buggy DNA.
Anyone have a list of what DNA is bugged outside of Kamuriaths?
Seeing as it's taboo to make clones with bugged DNA, I see it as a major point to inform people if they are using it...
ANY species that has resistances as effectivness rather than special protection exposes the flaw in the CL calculations, the more resists they have as effectiveness the greater the drop in the CL which can rise to as much as 50% of what it should actually be. Species such as this include roba stalkers, mountain squills, desert squills, some species of veermok, some pickets, many of the kahmurrith, several of the merek, spined pucs (utterly no resistances) to name but a few I've seen and all create varying degrees of the error. Put simple the ONLY way to be fair now is to utterly avoid anything with effectiveness resists. Frankly I'm not goin that far and simply avoiding making low CL clones since many of the mid-range species don't have their resistances as special protection.
Tal-N wrote:
ANY species that has resistances as effectivness rather than special protection exposes the flaw in the CL calculations, the more resists they have as effectiveness the greater the drop in the CL which can rise to as much as 50% of what it should actually be. Species such as this include roba stalkers, mountain squills, desert squills, some species of veermok, some pickets, many of the kahmurrith, several of the merek, spined pucs (utterly no resistances) to name but a few I've seen and all create varying degrees of the error. Put simple the ONLY way to be fair now is to utterly avoid anything with effectiveness resists. Frankly I'm not goin that far and simply avoiding making low CL clones since many of the mid-range species don't have their resistances as special protection.
Is this really so much a flaw though? If my understanding correct.... then the resists falling into "special protect" will give it a +1 to armor rating on that particular resist.
So a a creature with a %25 effect against kinetic, is not as good as the same creature with a 25% kinetic as a "special protect" because that special protect also grants an AR1 effect to that particular resists.
If I understand you correctly, your saying creatures are being classed lower because they do not have resists in this special protect area, as opposed to having stuff in this area, and at least by my understanding of the armor system it's working as intended....
Forgive me if I mis-understand you, I'd really just like to learn more about what the true differences are between the supposedly "bugged" and "non-bugged" creatures.
If I understand you correctly, your saying creatures are being classed lower because they do not have resists in this special protect area, as opposed to having stuff in this area, and at least by my understanding of the armor system it's working as intended....
No, I'm saying that any resistance reguardless of the amount is being totally ignored when the CL is calculations. If you take 5 sample from a barkmite burrower you get a clone which is equal or higher in it's CL when assmbled, when you take 5 mutant rancor samples to make a clone it can end up equal or higher in some cases. However take 5 samples from a mountain squill, merek deaths head, kahmurrith snapper ect... and you'll find that the final CL is actually around half of what the donar is. This has nothing to do with how armor or resists work, if you have a mob that is 50% energy effectiveness and another that is 50% energy special protection then both mobs when attacked with a blaster will lower the damage by 50%. The point is though that clones are utterly ignoring any effectivness resists which is inherantly the flaw leading to these overpowered CL5 and under super pets.
/disagree
I believe that the devs have come up with a sufficiently complex system that it comes off buggy, aggrovating, mystifying, or stupid. However, look at the process:
1) You have combine 5 DNA samples to create a DNA template. Each sample has about 20 attributes, and many folks forget to consider the quality of the sample as an actual attribute that can figure into the results of the combine. And let's not forget that the results of assembly and experimentation can have a bearing on the attributes of the combine, and the rating of your crafting tool and station have a bearing on this.
2) You have a DNA template with about 20 attributes that influence (in unknown ways) the resulting attributes of the creature, and many folks forget to consider the quality of the template as an actual attribute that can figure into the resulting attributes. And let's not forget the results of assembly can have a bearing on the attributes of the final product, and the rating of your crafting tool and station have a bearing on this.
This is major, and figuring out the process can be akin to multivariable calculus. Even if its as "simple" as weighted sums, what would prevent the devs from changing the weights based on thequality of the samples (and template), the results of assembly, the results of experimentation and even your skill.
All-in-all, I take my hat off to the devs for making something sufficiently complex that its going to take the collective community less than a week to figure it out--where is the fun in that 