Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: Creature Resources post CU
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agent156
Sat Apr 09, 2005 9:01 pm
#1
Today people started finally getting to Novice Ranger on Test Center. It does not increase your Combat Level. No one was expecting it to, but no one wanted to freak out when this issue was still based on speculation.
This effects the products of Bio Engineers, Armor Smiths (post CU the amount of hides needed for armor is much higher than in live), Chefs, Tailors, Artisans, Smugglers, and Scouts/Rangers them selves (traps and camps).
There are no players in this game that will not be effected. Why this effect of the CU level system has far reaching implications is partially but not entirely obvious.
I'm sure if any one understands the Level system in the CU its you guys, but I'll go over it briefly.
Nearly every player is by now aware that your Combat Level determines your maxim health in the post CU game. But it will also determine the amount of damage that a creature of a fixed level will do to you.
Without taking defenses, armor, mitigations or the damage output a player is capable of into account, a Level 10 creature will roll higher damage against a Level 9 player than it will a Level 11 player.
You can read more about the CU level system here.
Rangers are the prime harvesters of Creature Resources in this game. Ranger remains (because it needs to) the only Post CU Profession that requires the mastery of a novice profession (Scout). Thus a Master Ranger can only master one Elite Combat Profession. This will leave 4 Skill Points.
The amount harvested from a creature is based on the level of the creature and the player's Creature Harvest mod. Anyone with any amount of Ranger in their template will be in effect “nerfed” in PvE combat, because of their low combat rating. Many of the creatures that where within our grasp as unbuffed, unarmored, master elite combatants (a very common way for Rangers to hunt) will now be very difficult for us to kill at all. Not because of our limited skills, but our limited “Level.”
We as a profession are already somewhat limited in live due to the fact that our defenses and damage output are limited to a single combat mastery. In the new system we will also be inflicted with higher damage, and lower health. This exaggerates the problem to the point that it is impossible to imagine the already high price of organics not becoming even higher. We do not want this to happen.
I don't like the idea of this level system at all, but this effect is a near game breaker in my estimation. And it is far from the only problem. Why should a Chubba hit a Artisan for more damage than a TK? Isn't the TK already stronger? Have better defenses? Have more health? Can kill the creature sooner, thus taking less hits?
Who knows what implications there are that haven't even occurred to us yet?
Please don't think we believe we are the only ones headed for a bad place. We feel for all the professions that seem to be getting the short end of the stick in the CU.
The state of the CU has become so grim that I'm not sure appealing to the Devs is worth while. Perhaps it is time for us to open communication with Sony Online, and Lucas Arts themselves.
- agent156,
Ranger, and one of the many red-headed step children of the CU
This effects the products of Bio Engineers, Armor Smiths (post CU the amount of hides needed for armor is much higher than in live), Chefs, Tailors, Artisans, Smugglers, and Scouts/Rangers them selves (traps and camps).
There are no players in this game that will not be effected. Why this effect of the CU level system has far reaching implications is partially but not entirely obvious.
I'm sure if any one understands the Level system in the CU its you guys, but I'll go over it briefly.
Nearly every player is by now aware that your Combat Level determines your maxim health in the post CU game. But it will also determine the amount of damage that a creature of a fixed level will do to you.
Without taking defenses, armor, mitigations or the damage output a player is capable of into account, a Level 10 creature will roll higher damage against a Level 9 player than it will a Level 11 player.
You can read more about the CU level system here.
Rangers are the prime harvesters of Creature Resources in this game. Ranger remains (because it needs to) the only Post CU Profession that requires the mastery of a novice profession (Scout). Thus a Master Ranger can only master one Elite Combat Profession. This will leave 4 Skill Points.
The amount harvested from a creature is based on the level of the creature and the player's Creature Harvest mod. Anyone with any amount of Ranger in their template will be in effect “nerfed” in PvE combat, because of their low combat rating. Many of the creatures that where within our grasp as unbuffed, unarmored, master elite combatants (a very common way for Rangers to hunt) will now be very difficult for us to kill at all. Not because of our limited skills, but our limited “Level.”
We as a profession are already somewhat limited in live due to the fact that our defenses and damage output are limited to a single combat mastery. In the new system we will also be inflicted with higher damage, and lower health. This exaggerates the problem to the point that it is impossible to imagine the already high price of organics not becoming even higher. We do not want this to happen.
I don't like the idea of this level system at all, but this effect is a near game breaker in my estimation. And it is far from the only problem. Why should a Chubba hit a Artisan for more damage than a TK? Isn't the TK already stronger? Have better defenses? Have more health? Can kill the creature sooner, thus taking less hits?
Who knows what implications there are that haven't even occurred to us yet?
Please don't think we believe we are the only ones headed for a bad place. We feel for all the professions that seem to be getting the short end of the stick in the CU.
The state of the CU has become so grim that I'm not sure appealing to the Devs is worth while. Perhaps it is time for us to open communication with Sony Online, and Lucas Arts themselves.
- agent156,
Ranger, and one of the many red-headed step children of the CU
Aleskander
Sun Apr 10, 2005 4:57 am
#2
Yeah, I'd heard the amount of meats, hides and bones were going to become harder to get. That's why I've spent about 20-30 mil....every cent I have.....to gather over 1 million units of meats in at least 20k stacks. This doesn't count the smaller stacks of 1-19k.
The Ranger problems have already started to hit the servers. Meat I was paying 30 cpu to get is listed on a vendor at 100 cpu. When I told the owner I'd pay 30 cpu, she said it'll be worth 100 cpu after the CU.
agent156
Sun Apr 10, 2005 2:17 pm
#3
Yup its getting bad fast.
Armor is going to be a huge problem for any one that can wear it to.
I don't like this at all. At some point it not a problem of infation, its the game coming unglued.
Armor is going to be a huge problem for any one that can wear it to.
I don't like this at all. At some point it not a problem of infation, its the game coming unglued.
ArthurDentOnBria
Sun Apr 10, 2005 2:38 pm
#4
rangers have got problems. no doubt. Sorry to hear it. But I honestly don't believe the downfall of the ranger profession would have a profound affect on bio-engineer like you say. Honestly, most of the meat these days is coming from people with minimal scouting skills and extremely powerful combat skills, grinding away on dathomir, killing rancors by the hundreds. It's the CU's affect on those folks that will have a lot bigger impact imo then anything that could happen to ranger. By ranger's own admission, their numbers are very small at the moment anyway.
Good luck though, I hope they make ranger more playable.
ArthurDentOnBria
Sun Apr 10, 2005 2:51 pm
#5
I dunno. What I've observed on Bria is that there are just very very few people offering hunting contracts anymore. And when you do offer one, people jump at it. Very much a "buyers market" for organics right now. I noticed some nice stacks of meat on the bazar this week at 50cpu. Those will time out today with no buyers (too rich for my blood). I believe the reason behind this is primarily veteran rewards. Those people who used be have an insatiable appetite for high priced organics got smart and purchased a bunch of veteran rewards and now they have some big stocks of the things that they need which will last them for quite some time into the future.
Aleskander wrote:
Yeah, I'd heard the amount of meats, hides and bones were going to become harder to get. That's why I've spent about 20-30 mil....every cent I have.....to gather over 1 million units of meats in at least 20k stacks. This doesn't count the smaller stacks of 1-19k.
The Ranger problems have already started to hit the servers. Meat I was paying 30 cpu to get is listed on a vendor at 100 cpu. When I told the owner I'd pay 30 cpu, she said it'll be worth 100 cpu after the CU.
agent156
Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:50 pm
#6
My harvest mod of 150 is the reason 0/0/4/0 Scouts don't charge so much right now. I've tested the mostly combat with a bit of hunter template on live. They don't get more per hour. But they do fill orders that we don't when we are already engaged. ASs and Docs keep my very working hard as is. The system works for now. Its not shelling out on test center right now. I haven't seen live since the beta started.
In the past few months Ranger has been a bit of FOTM. Its not going to last. I've had Ranger friends quit and the CU hasn't even hit live yet.
In the past few months Ranger has been a bit of FOTM. Its not going to last. I've had Ranger friends quit and the CU hasn't even hit live yet.
Message Edited by agent156 on 04-10-2005 09:54 PM
Phenix1050
Mon Apr 11, 2005 2:02 am
#7
ArthurDentOnBria wrote:
rangers have got problems. no doubt. Sorry to hear it. But I honestly don't believe the downfall of the ranger profession would have a profound affect on bio-engineer like you say. Honestly, most of the meat these days is coming from people with minimal scouting skills and extremely powerful combat skills, grinding away on dathomir, killing rancors by the hundreds. It's the CU's affect on those folks that will have a lot bigger impact imo then anything that could happen to ranger. By ranger's own admission, their numbers are very small at the moment anyway.
Good luck though, I hope they make ranger more playable.
probably one of thee saddest statements I've ever read. You may not have meant to but, you came off with a little "Rangers are SOL" attitude. You know if it honesly doesn't affect your profession...I'm not sure you should be happy because it doesn't affect you or sad because it doesn't seem right to play a game where the supposed "best hunters" are gimped to the point where people with minimal scout skills are better.
The problem isn't a lack of Rangers. Lots of Jedi have Ranger alts. The problem is finding dedicated hunters. and with what the CU is doing to creature level, making it better to solo-group, you're going to see a lot more people doing that rather than hunting effectively as a group, which is how Rangers will be operating, with their 40% bonus applying to each. Many Rangers have started to boycott in fact, knowing that while some people believe the stackers will solve those issues, that from their testing, the harvesting rates are so borked that stackers won't be getting much at all.
It looks like there will be more need for dedicated hunters post-cu...and the most dedicated hunters aren't getting the tools they need. perhaps you should worry a bit more.
ArthurDentOnBria
Mon Apr 11, 2005 10:09 am
#8
Phenix,
I'm neither happy nor sad. I'm fairly detached from this. Rangers very well may be SOL, I dunno, this is certainly what the rangers are telling everyone that will listen. And if that's the case I do hope that they make ranger a more viable and fun profession to play. But all I'm saying is that I don't buy into the "domino theory" that if less people choose to play ranger that suddenly I'll be unable to play bio-engineer. This is because rangers supply an insignificant amount of the organics that I use today. That's just a fact, sad or otherwise.
Phenix1050 wrote:
ArthurDentOnBria wrote:
rangers have got problems. no doubt. Sorry to hear it. But I honestly don't believe the downfall of the ranger profession would have a profound affect on bio-engineer like you say. Honestly, most of the meat these days is coming from people with minimal scouting skills and extremely powerful combat skills, grinding away on dathomir, killing rancors by the hundreds. It's the CU's affect on those folks that will have a lot bigger impact imo then anything that could happen to ranger. By ranger's own admission, their numbers are very small at the moment anyway.
Good luck though, I hope they make ranger more playable.
probably one of thee saddest statements I've ever read. You may not have meant to but, you came off with a little "Rangers are SOL" attitude. You know if it honesly doesn't affect your profession...I'm not sure you should be happy because it doesn't affect you or sad because it doesn't seem right to play a game where the supposed "best hunters" are gimped to the point where people with minimal scout skills are better.
Cafa
Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:34 am
#9
Well now that fish are entering into more schematics, from what I hear, we have a gate again for organics. Just like running around a cave looking for that 1 or 2 units of milk again. Yeah! 
Phenix1050
Mon Apr 11, 2005 6:24 pm
#10
well what the level system is doing is making every point placed into scouting skill detrimental to ones' overall creature level and health. thus, you'll see fewer stackers with scout regardless of what happens to Rangers. The funny thing is that it's Rangers who spend the most time dedicated purely to hunting, and they'll be the most gimped single profession. I'm not saying Rangers leaving are going to directly affect you, but the fact that scout and ranger don't count towards health and the fact that the people who know the most about collecting tons of resources are going to be leaving the profession or the game, and few people will spend the skillpoints to replace them SHOULD worry any profession that has a organic requirement. Yeah, fish and mollusks are going to be your biggest sticking points, but if there aren't any players that can harvest more than 10 units off a kaadu, when good avian hits starter planets, you guys are gonna be SOL unless you have the 30k resource deeds.
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