Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: The LEgendary Level 10 tanks, 59% kin, 9k ham
They are still craftable though I belive?
If so, per a CSR's direct quote 'If an item is craftable without the use of a third party exploit, then it is legal to be used'
Vincentarasin wrote:
They are still craftable though I belive?
If so, per a CSR's direct quote 'If an item is craftable without the use of a third party exploit, then it is legal to be used'
Well then I suggest you spend some time researching and figure it out yourself. Just because the game allows you to use bugs to your advantage doesn't mean you're supposed to. Just ask all the smugglers who multi-sliced weapons. There wasn't a third party exploit there.
And just so we don't go through this whole thing again. Here is a thread from the first page of threads that asks the same thing you did.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=bio-engineer&message.id=69981
Message Edited by Kevm on 05-22-2004 12:07 PM
Meskall wrote:
Vincentarasin wrote:They are still craftable though I belive?
If so, per a CSR's direct quote 'If an item is craftable without the use of a third party exploit, then it is legal to be used'
I had 10 of these on my vendor, along with some 35 level pets and some other random pets... because I had these a CSR cleaned off my entire vendor without saying a damn thing about it
Do you know the name of the CSR that did this? When was it and did you appeal the decision?
Kevm wrote:
Vincentarasin wrote:
They are still craftable though I belive?
If so, per a CSR's direct quote 'If an item is craftable without the use of a third party exploit, then it is legal to be used'
Well then I suggest you spend some time researching and figure it out yourself. Just because the game allows you to use bugs to your advantage doesn't mean you're supposed to. Just ask all the smugglers who multi-sliced weapons. There wasn't a third party exploit there.
And just so we don't go through this whole thing again. Here is a thread from the first page of threads that asks the same thing you did.
Hyperlink added for your convenience
Vezek
Vincentarasin wrote:
They are still craftable though I belive?
If so, per a CSR's direct quote 'If an item is craftable without the use of a third party exploit, then it is legal to be used'
I had 10 of these on my vendor, along with some 35 level pets and some other random pets... because I had these a CSR cleaned off my entire vendor without saying a damn thing about it
I don't agree with these pets personally & dont sell them but that is UNBELIEVABLE if true and needs to be pursued...if a CSR did do this then I dont know a single BE on either side of the argument that would agree with what the CSR did
This topic always raises lots of feelings among bioengineers. The thing is that SOE says these pets are too powerful, yet they seem to be doing nothing about it. Let's face it, if it really is a priority they could implement a fix, good or bad, tomorrow.
It has been said before, the problem is that we do not know what the definition of too powerful is and as a crafter I constantly strive to push the boundaries to make the best items possible. To say that is somehow exploiting is not right. We are taking 5 DNA samples just like every other bioengineer does when making a pet, the only diference is that some have taken the time to really understand the pet creation system to make the best pets possible for the job (unless of course they picked up the formula somwhere).
If the pet creation process is not working as intended, it is SOE's job to fix it and not for bioengineers to speculate on what is overpowered or not. It is not fair to put that burden on us, because as crafters we are always going to try to make the very best pets possible within the boundaries of the system.
Personally, I think that the system for determining the CL of a pet is working pretty much as intended. What is 'broken' is that kinetic resist and the health bar are the only two stats that really matter in pve. If animals could do other types of damage as well as damage the health, action and mind bars equally then the current pets that have high kinetic resist and high health would be much less effective and desirable. Pets created with balanced stats across the board would then reflect their CL more accurately.
What is hurting us right now is the apparent lack of activity and priority on the part of SOE towards this matter. Telling us that it is an issue is not enough. Having a CSR remove the pets from a vendor is also not the solution becasue this implies that the terms of the EULA have been broken, which is simply not the case since these pets were created using exactly the same process as making any other pet.
The easy fix is to stop these pets from being created or tamed. A better fix would be to make all of the resists and stats of a pet equally important. The worst fix is to do nothing at all, which is what is happening right now. But in the meantime, you can't blame a bioengineer for continuing to make these pets because that is the same as telling any crafter not to make the best items they can.
I think the part I hate most is the fact that we have been ignored by the devs in this situation, except for the hastily implimented and undocumented pet check, but we still berate each other CONSTANTLY over these pets.
I went over to the DE board, and you know, I could notfind one post where the Droid Engineers were picking on each other because they can make Class 18's for the general Class 10 using public. I also didn't find one remorseful post about how sorry the DE's were to everyone for selling them armored probots that they knew were too powerful and probably headed for a nerf based on the way the devs nerfed the class 15 pets.
On the fencer forums there are actually posts telling you how to best stack your defenses to max out as much as possible defense without actually being a fencer. And the Devs have definitively stated that they did not intend for defense stacking.
The smuggler who sliced my guns and armor hasn't offered to give back my money just because SWG has decided to start fining me if I am caught with these items, despite the fact that I was not warned about that before I had them sliced. And I guarantee there was no moral delima for them either.
In truth, these creatures are PROBABLY a little out of whack with what SWG was going for, especially considering they weren't creative enough to make the environmental creatures use anything but Kinetic. That is why these SEEM so powerful. But, in all honesty, I find it hard to believe that a HAM cap was never considered at all by Kel or the other devs. It was INTENTIONALLY left out of both the crafting system AND the pet check because the devs DECIDED that, while HAM contributes to the class of a pet, it is not the keystone attribute that effects class.
Resists (more specifically, Kinetic and Energy resists, as I can add Blast without effecting the level at all)and Damage over Time are obviously the 2 key attributes that the devs considered important enough to link strong swings in the Class with. These Ubers are a direct result of Min/Maxing the resists and keeping the DOT fairly low, which is EXACTLY the kind of thing we are supposed to do as BE's.
Now, that said, based on some of the research done by Zardozap and Akelonalong with my own recent experiments, I think there may be too much weight associated with having an Energy vulnerability, that allows these (and other creatures, such as the level 18s with Armor) to be made. However, since I am sure these formulas were charted out and min/maxes at least discussed, I think this is working "as designed" just with a bit better results than the devs thought we would figure out.
What this means to ME (yeah, I know some or YOURthoughts on my opinions) is that in the current SWG parameters, being vulnerable to energy is a particular Achilles Heal level weakness. If you are energy vulnerable in a galaxy full of blasters, you are at a particular disadvantage. In the rebalance, I fully expect that they will make being vulnerable to energy less important and how many hits you can take (HAM) from ANY weapon type more important. But right now, that is not how it is.
And to be quite frank, since this is ALL speculation and has been for MONTHS, what I do within the parameters of the game as it stands, that is not using a 3rd party or mixing devices or going outside of the normal crafting process at all (basically meaning, I am not trying to cheat) I would consider a valid pet, pet check or not.
Also in my opinion, the Pet Check is just the devs going "screw you guys" to the BE's who figured this out at a time when BE had been considered finished and dropped from the devs scheduled time to make time for the Jedi revamp. If it weren't an insult or frustrated reaction, if it was an actual valid attempt to keep us working within the theoretical game balance, someone would have stopped by in all of this time since its inception and talked to us about it. In case you just got here, they haven't.......
Hey, before you hit that assemble button, can you give me an idea of what level that pet is gonna be? Oh, No? Um, OK, well, can you guarantee I will be able to call it when it grows up? No? Really? Um. Well, can you make me a flight rasp for my empty bird cage? No? Hmmmmm.... Maybe you should just sell tissues......
Gothar:
/clap/clap/clap/ 
Couldn't have said it any better myself, and I, for one, definately agree with you.
Ebacca