Bio Engineer Archive

Thread: Had an interesting request the other day...

ArthurDentOnBria
Tue Nov 30, 2004 12:37 pm
#1

No sooner did I get back from Thanksgiving break then I had a bunch of pet orders, but I had one that was pretty unique so I thought I'd share it here.


He requested "a pet with good HAM, kinetic, armor, don't care about damage, don't care about speed, must have a couple very specific specials, and a very high "to-hit" modifier".


This took me kind of off-guard as it's the first time anyone has ever requested such a thing (generally people harp on damage). But after thinking about it, I thought this was kind of clever actually, and may make me re-consider the way I'm doing things a bit. What I ended up making was a pet with considerably lower damage than my "regular" ones, but a pretty respectible .49 "to-hit" for a CL 35. A more typical pet for me would have a "to-hit" of about .25 and double the damage, but of course dps-wise that is the same. But I guess the main difference is that having that higher "to-hit" means that the pet will use it's specials much more effectively(I'm assuming). If so, very very cool, and it makes that tradeoff look very favorable for "to-hit" over damage.


Learn something new every day



ArthurDent - former Bio Engineer, Tailor, and Droid Engineer
Account cancelled 7/8/05 due to game breaking bugs in these professions that have been neglected for FAR too long. Last day July 27 2005
custom tailoring and droid orders welcome. "making Evil products since July 2003"
Achiever: 80%, Explorer: 60%, Socializer: 46%, Killa 13%


Hylidex
Tue Nov 30, 2004 2:35 pm
#2

I wish I really understood "to hit". It seems that the higher it is, the more damage is done. I always aimed for high to hits on my pets, because I believed they were more effective. I asked nearly a year ago on both the weaponsmith and the CH forums exactly what that stat did, and no one seemed to really know. The best guess I heard was that it reflected the accuracy of the pet in doing effective damage--not merely reflected in misses but in counterattacks by the opponent and in location of the hit.


I could never verify it, though, so it might all be just so much drivel.


I got an experimentalfailure on a high-level pet recently that killed the to-hit stat. It was a special order. The person who ordered it didn't want it in spite of the other stats, which were excellent.




Hylidex Lightstrider
AFS Outfitters, League of all Factions and Species (LAFS)
-6600, 4440, Theed, Naboo, Gorath
ArthurDentOnBria
Tue Nov 30, 2004 2:51 pm
#3

Hmm, well I've always just taken the "to-hit" stuff at face value, assuming that a .5 modifier meant the critter had an equal chance of hitting or missing on a particular attack. Sounds like maybe some experiments are in order. Next time I go hunting I'll try to pay more attention to exactly how often my pet hits and misses. I think we should be able to determine this fairly easily in the combat log.



ArthurDent - former Bio Engineer, Tailor, and Droid Engineer
Account cancelled 7/8/05 due to game breaking bugs in these professions that have been neglected for FAR too long. Last day July 27 2005
custom tailoring and droid orders welcome. "making Evil products since July 2003"
Achiever: 80%, Explorer: 60%, Socializer: 46%, Killa 13%


Hylidex
Tue Nov 30, 2004 2:59 pm
#4






ArthurDentOnBria wrote:

Hmm, well I've always just taken the "to-hit" stuff at face value, assuming that a .5 modifier meant the critter had an equal chance of hitting or missing on a particular attack. Sounds like maybe some experiments are in order. Next time I go hunting I'll try to pay more attention to exactly how often my pet hits and misses. I think we should be able to determine this fairly easily in the combat log.







I'd love to see what you find out. I don't see anywhere close to 50% misses with my pets or with my gun (which also has a to hit value). But some say "Base to hit" which may mean that it gets modified by other factors.


"To hit" as words mean nothing to me, so face value is hard. Is this the percentage on target or the percentage of maximum damage, or exactly what. The values ranging from 0.2 to 0.6 seem more informative than the label.


I still contend that the devs are all right-brain people with a small exception: recent JTL dialogue is FAR better than the norm for the game. Some of it actually has me rolling. I especially love the Dantooine Space Station Operator's "Good grief, friend. What would you want to land HERE for?" with his arms thrown in the air.




Hylidex Lightstrider
AFS Outfitters, League of all Factions and Species (LAFS)
-6600, 4440, Theed, Naboo, Gorath
droid327
Tue Nov 30, 2004 4:37 pm
#5






Hylidex wrote:





ArthurDentOnBria wrote:

Hmm, well I've always just taken the "to-hit" stuff at face value, assuming that a .5 modifier meant the critter had an equal chance of hitting or missing on a particular attack. Sounds like maybe some experiments are in order. Next time I go hunting I'll try to pay more attention to exactly how often my pet hits and misses. I think we should be able to determine this fairly easily in the combat log.







I'd love to see what you find out. I don't see anywhere close to 50% misses with my pets or with my gun (which also has a to hit value). But some say "Base to hit" which may mean that it gets modified by other factors.


"To hit" as words mean nothing to me, so face value is hard. Is this the percentage on target or the percentage of maximum damage, or exactly what. The values ranging from 0.2 to 0.6 seem more informative than the label.


I still contend that the devs are all right-brain people with a small exception: recent JTL dialogue is FAR better than the norm for the game. Some of it actually has me rolling. I especially love the Dantooine Space Station Operator's "Good grief, friend. What would you want to land HERE for?" with his arms thrown in the air.







I think to-hit is modified by relative level of pet and target, for one, and there may be other modifiers too...I usually never pay much attention to to-hit as its in psychology and I dump points there anyway. I'm not sure if it will work the way the customer assumed though, as I'm almost certain my pets have gotten their specials to stick even with a "miss" attack...I think the chance to stick state is a different roll than the chance to do damage. Or maybe its just yet another bug in the pet system =)


And the JtL station guys are funny, especially the poor Dathomir imperial comm officer. The Rori gungan really needs to die though, as do all gungans...I've emptied my capacitors in futile frustration at him a few times after I get them repaired there. No, I'm not sorry, and I dont promise to be nice to gungans, and especially not to rorigungans, now fix my damned ship you ugly mutated durni....



Jekk Badlander
Lowca
Commando - Rebel Pilot
------------------------------------------------
Factor
Zadokk
Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:24 pm
#6

interesting ideas. i had always though that it related to accuracy as well. that was a clever customer, and certainly knew what he wanted. i guess that he is just intersted in landing those specials as quickly as possible. Arthur, ask him why he wanted that stat so high and see what he says - if he knows something we don't then we all need to know ASAP lol.
ArthurDentOnBria
Tue Nov 30, 2004 9:11 pm
#7


Well, you are very right. I tested a pretty pathetic pet I have with a whopping .24 to-hit, and attacked some kaadu's. After looking at the combat log I count 33 hits and only 4 misses, although the kaadu managed to block or evade about a half dozen of the hits. Hmm, so I'm baffled now.


Oh well, back to making high damage, low "to-hit" value pets, lol.





Hylidex wrote:





ArthurDentOnBria wrote:

Hmm, well I've always just taken the "to-hit" stuff at face value, assuming that a .5 modifier meant the critter had an equal chance of hitting or missing on a particular attack. Sounds like maybe some experiments are in order. Next time I go hunting I'll try to pay more attention to exactly how often my pet hits and misses. I think we should be able to determine this fairly easily in the combat log.







I'd love to see what you find out. I don't see anywhere close to 50% misses with my pets or with my gun (which also has a to hit value). But some say "Base to hit" which may mean that it gets modified by other factors.






Message Edited by ArthurDentOnBria on 11-30-2004 08:13 PM



ArthurDent - former Bio Engineer, Tailor, and Droid Engineer
Account cancelled 7/8/05 due to game breaking bugs in these professions that have been neglected for FAR too long. Last day July 27 2005
custom tailoring and droid orders welcome. "making Evil products since July 2003"
Achiever: 80%, Explorer: 60%, Socializer: 46%, Killa 13%


BulgertheHutt
Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:49 am
#8

You mean, a BE customer who actually understood how a pet works? Who knew? I figured this was going to be another of those "I wan kewl lvl 10 rancor with 100 ken resit" stories, but this was illuminating. Thanks!
Madhi
Thu Dec 02, 2004 2:44 pm
#9

The thing that is bugging me is that if to-hit means how well the blows land completely succesfull, what stat affects defense then, if there is a visible one (which i do think otherwise it would give problems with cloning), if not then it will be probably be linked to CL (at least that would explain why sometimes my creatures get higher level then they should be)




Madhi Starstrider
Maste
r Bio Engineer/Creature Handler/Marauder
Specialzing in genetical mutated critters
Visit at 6523, 6008 Naboo



Hylidex
Thu Dec 02, 2004 4:32 pm
#10






Madhi wrote:
The thing that is bugging me is that if to-hit means how well the blows land completely succesfull, what stat affects defense then, if there is a visible one (which i do think otherwise it would give problems with cloning), if not then it will be probably be linked to CL (at least that would explain why sometimes my creatures get higher level then they should be)






Before the current BE system, all pets showed secondary stats. I can't help but believe those stats still exist, but are invisible to us.


If that is true, then some of the monster HAM, high damage, low level pets may be nothing more than customer dupery.




Hylidex Lightstrider
AFS Outfitters, League of all Factions and Species (LAFS)
-6600, 4440, Theed, Naboo, Gorath
droid327
Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:44 pm
#11

those stats were hidden because they were never over 100 or so at extreme maximum I'd assume....40-50 was as much as I ever saw. Thats negligible to the point where your pet will never noticeably regen on its own. And it never uses HAM for specials, so three of those stats are meaningless.



Jekk Badlander
Lowca
Commando - Rebel Pilot
------------------------------------------------
Factor
Madhi
Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:01 am
#12

Hmm this is quite good news, cuz it gave me another look on cloning. I think I'm going to experiment some on my own. If it's true that it affects the counterattack/block/dodge then it be logical to aim for high to hit instead of damage. Have you also checked if a high to hit gives a higher chance on sticking a special, as creatures have defense against states??




Madhi Starstrider
Maste
r Bio Engineer/Creature Handler/Marauder
Specialzing in genetical mutated critters
Visit at 6523, 6008 Naboo



ArthurDentOnBria
Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:08 am
#13






Madhi wrote:
Hmm this is quite good news, cuz it gave me another look on cloning. I think I'm going to experiment some on my own. If it's true that it affects the counterattack/block/dodge then it be logical to aim for high to hit instead of damage. Have you also checked if a high to hit gives a higher chance on sticking a special, as creatures have defense against states??






Me too, I am in no way done testing this and I'll post results. I want to try this against some much much higher level critters and also look into the block/evade etc thing some more and see if it affects that. In the kaadu fight I did give my pet the command to land a special and he landed it on the first try. Doh! But I'll test this some more. What I need to do is make a really high "to-hit" pet to use and see how the results differ.




ArthurDent - former Bio Engineer, Tailor, and Droid Engineer
Account cancelled 7/8/05 due to game breaking bugs in these professions that have been neglected for FAR too long. Last day July 27 2005
custom tailoring and droid orders welcome. "making Evil products since July 2003"
Achiever: 80%, Explorer: 60%, Socializer: 46%, Killa 13%


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