Bio Engineer Archive

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Tal-N wrote:

Also remember that pets like the ones you're talking with a HAM like that have their damage severely lowered because they are for tanking, if you made a PROPER pet with the usual 2000/2000/2000 and 180 points of damage you would see a much more balance battle since the pet isn't just a meat shield.

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Tal-N wrote:

Droids can have medium armor to compensate for their 900 HAM. Technically increasing their effective hMA by 75% and then with resistances a further 40%. That means a droid can suffer a total of around 2205 to a single pool.

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Simple, if I have 4 containers of water all half filled and someone says that the total amount of water is8 litres then whatever I do with that water means there is still onlyeight litres amoung all 4 containers. Each container only has 2 litres each btw. The way bio-engineer is supposed to work is that you sacrifice one thing for another.

Now lets say that the 4 containers are labelled, the first is called Health, the second is Action, the third if Mind and the forth is called Damage. Someone sets me the challange to try and get as much into health and action as possible. Naturally I pour as much of the water from the mind and damage containers into the health and action. These two containers are now full and the last two are now empty, however there is still only 8 litres of water between the containers like when I started.

That is a very simple analogy, we don't yet have a direct calculations between how many points of damage canbe traded for so many points of HAM. I have in the past stumbled across a rough 10 points of damage = 100 points of HAM correlation however the system is far more complex than that. Ultimately though I base my opinion on the fact that older pets which were 5k of ham in any single pool became invalid, it's also a fact that the majority of tamableCL13-15 animals in the wild have a grand total of around 6000 points of HAM. Since bio-pets are designed to have stats equal to wild animals several CL ratings higher than they are it's fair to say that a CL10 pet would have stats equal to animals in the CL13-15 range that produce babies. That would also explain why the non-ch level was lowered to CL10 from CL15 since the fact is the devs knew the clones would be equal in power to the old non-ch pets. I can point out this with evidence if you would like:

• Bantha CL15 - 6600 total HAM


• Bachelor gualama CL13 - 5199 total HAM


• Blister rot mite queen CL15 - 6600 total HAM


• Blurrg pup CL15 - 9000 total HAM (untamable species)


• Bolle bol calf CL15 - 9000 total HAM (untamable species)


• Borgle matriarch CL15 - 7200 total HAM (untamable species)


• Canoid hunter CL15 - 6600 total HAM


• Carnivorous nuna CL13 - 5100 total HAM

I can go through the entire SWGcreatures.com again and again pointing out that you see this pattern, that tamable CL13-15 species a good 90% of the time abide by this rule. You might also notice that the ones which break the rule and fill that 10% are almost all aggressive species which a non-ch is never intended to use and a novice CH cannot tame or control either. Like I pointed out as well, the toughest droids follow this rule in that their effective ham is within that 6000-6600 total HAM margin. naturally when you take resistances into account you're seeing a slight increase between 5%-15% for the common damage types but that still only adds an extra 990 points of additional damage to the total HAM. My 3000/2000/2000 dewback is still valid however this is because the damage on him is lowered to the minimum. As I have seen a 10 points of damage = 100 points of HAM trade off and the typical damage on a CL13-15 pet caps around 180-200 that means by lowering them to 35-40 I have gained an additional 1600 points of HAM without exceeding CL10 roughly. That is why my pet has a total of7000 HAM and has survived the first line of invalid pet checks. It'll survive the second and third rounds too, i have no doubt of that.

You can actually do a bit of rough math to see what CL rating a total HAM is for. This only applies from CL10 upwards with a few modifiers however if you follow this formula (CLx200)2 and add an additional 1000 total HAM for each additional +10 to the CL rating from CL20 upwards. (remembering that armor pets lose this bonus) you can follow it through with a great deal of accuracy. Do the math yourself, for CL10 pets and you'll see it comes to a total of 6000. Do the math for CL15 and it comes to 9000. Do this in reverse for you 5k/3k/2k and you'll find that the actual CL rating is around CL16-CL17. Now obviously this formula only applies to clones because that was were my research was based. Now you might be asking, so what. So I'm 2 or 3 points higher than a valid pet should be, however recall that from CL15 upwards resistances and damage rapidly rise along with the HAM. Your pet is actually equal to a wild CL20ish animal. Look up animals with 3500-4000 ham on swgcreatures.com. You'll find almost all of them in the CL16-23 range.

Your pet is overpowered, the formula proves that.

You misunderstand, I mean effective HAM. The HAM is nothing more than a measure of how much damage a mob can take before being killed. The medium armor will actually know 50% from damage and than apply another 50% again, after which it applies the resistances (in this case 40%) That medium armor means the pet can now take 75%+40% more damage increasing the 'effective' HAM from 900 to 2205 per pool with a grand total of 6615 overall HAM points between all 3 pools.

I used 900 as a rough guide since I don't know the exact HAM for the probot so yes it's (820+75%)+40% = 2009 for a single pool. A grand total of exactly 6027 HAM points which is perfectly in line with the patterns seen in the game for CL13-15 wild tamable species as well as the forumula I developed to predict the typical HAM for a CL rating on a clone.

If you wanted to do this math exactly like the game works things out it goes like this, ((820+50%)+50%)+40% = 2583. Grand total of 7749 effective HAM. I think the damage on a probot is around 80-90 which is 100 points less than a pet can achieve, if my theory is correct and 10 points of damage = 100 points of HAM then the probot is still in line with expectations.

Look at the damage side of things it appears thatavalid tanking pet, thats 3k/2k/2k with 35-40 damage would need to hit the probot a total of 137 times in order to defeat it. The droid shooting the pet however would only need to hit 38 times meaning that the droid is technically more than 3.6 times better than the best valid non-ch pet blow for blow.

So yeah, it's no wonder the pet didn't even manage to lower the droid to half health. I'd say we need to bring this issue up with the devs otherwise it's going to put non-ch pets completely out of the market for creature handlers AND bio-engineers. If they considered 9k HAM non-chpets overpoweredthen one whichactually has the same as around 15k isn't going to go down to well with them at all. I think this would mean theprobots HAM needs to be lowered to around 228 points to be inline with a typical non-ch pet.