Bio Engineer Archive

say I became a MCH because that's what I've always wanted since opening the box--I will never give that up--EVER!!!...not for a holo, not for the next uber weapon cert, not even when the Xpansion packs come--because obviously, expansion means more planets, more planets mean more creatures!!!

Now, a few weeks before the BE change happened, I bought my first BE pet--a Rancor, and a pre-patch kimo that I'll never be able to use, but if we ever get kennels or something to display animals--he's going in there! Anywayz....The guy who sold them to me was the onethat let me know that changes were about to happen to BE--a profession I had no interest in before--but it made me curious, so I went to the BE boards and started reading up on those changes--started reconfiguring my character that same day. I started the grind maybe a couple of weeks before the patch and finished over the holidays...that grind was VERY expensive--if you want to Master BE with some speed, you're gonna have to dip into your bank account.

One thing I noticed on the boards that I never encounter ingame, is that BE's and MCH's really aren't friends, they're more like competitors. If you are both MCH and MBE like myself, then you're mostly interested in making pets for yourself and friends, and have no ill will towards either profession--no jealousy, no accusations, and no desire to have one class beat the other in any stat. However, those who are only BE's, with maybe a lil novice CH, don't feel that CH's should be able to find wild creatures better than a MBE can make, because obviously, CH's are the only one's who can buy a BE's higher CL pets--therefore, those pets had better be worth buying, or else a CH would only tame his own. Now, if you're only CH, you want to be able to sell pets too, but don't think it's fair that BE pets are better, because yours may not sell as well. Plus you can only sell your pets using the "transfer" method. Then there're the fighting stats--who's should be better?

I have to hand it to the devs, they did something here and no one seems to notice, but a few BE's...it's kinda funny. It may be becauseof the bug in the BE process that a lot of people haven't noticed this, but supposedly that bug is fixed now. Here's the thing, my fellow CHers, as a BE I've compared my legitimate results to some creatures in the wild--I had to give up some +creature knowledge when I dropped Ranger tracking and Master Scout, but from what I can still examine--at any given CL, as long as it's equal, then a wild CL40 and a cloned CL40 should have very similar, if not 'equal', stats. An example:

I made a CL44 Veermok

11950/10837/10514 HAM, ar1,

43%kinetic, 34%energy, vulnerable to everything else, 2.16 speed, 0.42 to hit, stunning strike/intimidation specials, and 410-420 damage...no ranged. Not a bad pet huh?--but the vulnerabilities are many.

Now let's look at a CL44 wild creature...my Gaping Spider Hunter,,,

10.5k HAM, ar1,

30%kinetic/energy, 60%blast, 15%heat, vulnerable to stun/cold/electricity, 2.0 speed, 0.46 to hit, mild poison/something else/ranged, and 390-490 damage.

The damage for clones only ranges 10 points, but wild ranges 100 points--that could be better or worse for either...depends. The HAM is always much more uniform in the wild--BE pets can be really outta'whack--but this one turned out alright, and it does beat the wild CL44's HAM, but it gives that edge back with the resists--although it can be argued that it has the resist where it counts--that's the advantage of BE pets(customizing), butthe wild CL44 is quicker, and has a better chance of hitting it's target, not to mention it has a higher max damage, and could do it at range--oh, and a DoT attack....who's the winner of this brawl? I have to give the edge to my favorite spider. I like my clone, but I wouldn't give up space in my datapad for him--but he might fit with a certain type of creature combo--depends on the player.

I have other examples, but I hate typing!LOL...needless to say that as long as the CL is calculated correctly in BE pets--they shouldn't be "better" necessarily, thantheir wild counterpart at the same CL. So the argument over who has the "BEST" pets is completely subjective--it depends on what's best for YOU--but the CL is supposed to be an unbiased rating system. So a critter with ar1 and 60% resists to everything, should be up their with it's wild counterparts CL rating--well, if it lowballed the damage and HAM it could slide under the CL, but who wants lowered HAM and damage?...actually, HAM and resists are closely related in cloning process, so you couldn't do too much manipulating there--anywayz you guys don't wanna hear about the BE process!LOL...just understand that a lot of uber pets you're seeing out there weren't intended by the devs, and some BE's need to be slapped on their wrists for repeated production of unbalanced pets...not that it's totally their fault, but some were so unbalanced that there's no excuse for not knowing it was a bug!LOL!!! CH's can be rightfully upset with those BE's and I wouldn't blame them.

As for the pet sell'a'thon. I gotta side with the BE crowd here...and frankly so should the CH's. A CH tames a pet and can get use out of that pet, to make money, guard, or whatever--however, when a dedicated BE makes a pet--he HAS to sell it--there's no other use for a creature deed if you can'ttame&call it, you have to sell it. Oh, we can sample a deed for more DNA to make another pet, but it would still have to be sold. Truly, if CH's were to introduce their pets into the market the same way as a BE, that would do HARM to the BE profession's income. It's not what some of you may want to hear, but it's true--there would be so many pets on the market, prices would plummet...a CH could always USE his pets to run missions to make up for the costs involved with traveling and cloning...what about the dedicated BE? He can't afford to be in competition with another profession selling the "same" goods in the same manner--the distinction between the two profession's sales methods are needed for the sake of both--having too many pets on the market would only drive prices so low it wouldn't be profitable for either to sell pets--that's why I think it's best to have one profession focused on sales, and the other a "part time" seller...ie. "hey, I have an extra graul and a mount in my datapad. You want them?...50k?...it's a deal"

To make a long post longer...I still don't see why both professions havesuch disdain for each other, but I have some ideas that may lighten the mood. Maybe if the Devs made CH a REAL fighting profession, with no transfering at all, but made pets really powerful--then perhaps CH's wouldn't want to be pet sellers...it wouldn't even fit the profession description...ie. a player doesn't become a Commando to sell WMD's. I would be ok with it if the Devs wanted to try this route with CH. Perhaps even the wild creatures could be more powerful than the cloned ones, but be REALLY RARE FINDS--that way the primary source for pets would be BE's, and if you do find a "(baby)" you can get really excited because you'll have something 'special'.

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=creature_handler&message.id=151997

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not sure why are mad at us... i thought this would be a WIN WIN FOR THEM

Hmm. There is animosity between CH and BEs? I honestly haven't seen any.

I think the tradeoffs are pretty straight forward:

* BE's can customize pets. We can create a pet in a bunch of shells that are not available as tamable babies. We can put any specials you want into that pet, with a little trial and error. We can customize your pet for a specific purpose. PVE, PVP, Max HAM with low damage (so as not to steal xp from your combat profession), special resist combos, etc. What CH doesn't want a cool Snorbal with some great specials for their collection?

* CH's can use all the pets. They can tame lots of animals in the game that we can't make. Until +BE Experimentation tapes start dropping (and you'd need a lot), wild pets are more evenly balanced than BE pets because to max one thing, we have to forego spending experimentation in other stats. That's why you see the 9000 H / 7500 A / 6900 M pets.

I used to be a MCH. It isa really fun class. But, I never got serious about trying to sell tamed babies to other CHs. By the time you add up shuttle tickets, time spent, etc., it's just not worth it considering anything you can sell the buyer could go out and get themselves. Thus, as the $ you want to charge increases, so does the likelihood that your potential buyers will just go out and get their own - Rare collecters items being the exception. I honestly think that any CH that tries to make a living selling pets will quickly figure out that the time investment and the potential rewards don't make it worth it because of this.

My take is that Creature Handlers areBE customers and should be treated with respect accordingly. They are the combat class, we are the crafting/merchant class. I don't see the conflict.

i think he was saying there was annomosity between BE's.

He also clearly did not spent too much time experimenting with the new system yet. With the right combination of re-sampled and wild DNA and good luck with the experimentation, a BE can make a pet quite a bit better then in the wild. My example is my best result yet which sits in my datapad as one of my primary fighting pets. Note that he was created before the patch that fixed the CL calculation and fixed the courage stat getting shifted to dependability on re-sampling.

CL34 Narglatch 13200H, 12kA, 10kM, 57% Kinetic resists, V to energy, some other resists, light armor, 340-350dmg, Knockdown and Dizzy attacks.

He was made mostly with Bull Rancor, Merek Harvester, and Vexed Voritor Lizard DNA. I use CL34 Dewback with him that also has light armor, 54% resists, Strong Poison, Strong Disease, amd Ranged attack. He only has like 10k health but thats ok, with clever timing of my attack commands and creature positioning, he usually ends up 20m away from the target using his ranged attack while the Narglatch tanks.

Yeah any "animosity" is pretty much just on the boards I think... Don't take things too personally... and try not to poke the CHs with sticks, they tend to bite.

Cressida (Master CH by the way, but love the BEs too!)

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DataOutlaw wrote:

He also clearly did not spent too much time experimenting with the new system yet. With the right combination of re-sampled and wild DNA and good luck with the experimentation, a BE can make a pet quite a bit better then in the wild. My example is my best result yet which sits in my datapad as one of my primary fighting pets. Note that he was created before the patch that fixed the CL calculation and fixed the courage stat getting shifted to dependability on re-sampling.

CL34 Narglatch 13200H, 12kA, 10kM, 57% Kinetic resists, V to energy, some other resists, light armor, 340-350dmg, Knockdown and Dizzy attacks.

He was made mostly with Bull Rancor, Merek Harvester, and Vexed Voritor Lizard DNA. I use CL34 Dewback with him that also has light armor, 54% resists, Strong Poison, Strong Disease, amd Ranged attack. He only has like 10k health but thats ok, with clever timing of my attack commands and creature positioning, he usually ends up 20m away from the target using his ranged attack while the Narglatch tanks.

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Actually I do spend time experimenting, but purposefully shy away from generational sampling at the moment. I haven't done that since before the hotfix because I noticed how "strange" things got when going that route. I understand it may be fixed now, so I'll probably be getting back to using my clones again soon--I haven't had much time to play the game though recently, and you know it takes time to get the good dna.

Also note guys, that I also have never had any problems in this game with CH's--NEVER--but, when I come to the boards, I see a certain bitterness between the 2 professions. BE's want CH's to have to buy "specialized" pets from them, but for some reason , CH's want to be able to find the "best"--or at least better than any BE could make--pets in the wild...well, that's what I'm getting from the feedback in my thread anyway--which I guess could only mean that those who agree with that position, don't want BE's to make pets at all. They even have "suggestions" on how to change the BE profession altogether, as if our reasons for being BE were invalid...ie. "BE's should do this for us, and that, but not what they can do now!"...what they probably don't understand, is that for a lot of BE's, this is what they've--well, "we've"--been waiting for...from what I've read on this forum--this profession is working like it was intended for the first time since launch--but some CH's didn't know this I guess, and now feel "too" dependant on BE's. That's why I started the thread, to hopefully work out some of the misunderstandings before the Devs think that something should be nerfed because of all the BE/CH posts proclaiming that one is "this", and the other is "that"...ie. "this/that" = rich/poor, strong/weak, working/broke, nerfed/unbalanced, and so on.

Anyways, I gotta go to work, but keep up the dialogue...oh, and not any one, or group of BE/CH, speak for all BE/CH, so sorry if my post comes off that way--that's my disclaimer!LOL

I believe that BE pets have many trade offs. We as BE's know that some animals have different attributes that people don't see. Attributes that make them regenerate faster or make them braver and so on. People just see the main stats. To make a pet with High Resists the cost could come from those stats. It'sa give and take. BE's can be lucky everyonce in a while with experiments and make an uber pet but in general many creations are close to the wild animals and trashed to attempt again. I think wild animals still have many attributes people should want. But if you want a pet with uber resists but have trouble finding a baby check with a MBE because they maybe able to make one for you in a week or so.

Honestly I've never seen this CH/BE animosity anywhere but on these forums. In game, CH's love a BE just as much as a Commando loves a Weaponsmith. If there ever was a problem, it would be the offset ratio of numerous CHs to miniscule BEs!

Well after spending 3 weeks and 1.5 million just to make master BE, my pets need to be far better than those a CH can spend 10 seconds to tame! I do think that a CH is cool, infact i am one, but after spending all that time and money i am looking for the reward. If we can make a pet far better than those found in the wild then let us "Control" anything we can make, now that would rock!! CH gets 3 pets, we get one big one. Here is another cool idea for those pets we can make that no one can control, Let BE's of opposing faction let loose one of these creations on an opposing faction city. And last for suggestions, what about a gladitorial pit where BE can let loose there creations and have groups go in and try to take it down, you could let merchants sell tickets, Groups get combat exp, BE get exp from there pets kills!! There are lost of possiblities for BE's. I just want to see a good reward for spending all that time and money.

Well as a Nov BE 2-2-2-2 I am making awesome pets, like a Zucca Boar 5600, 5500, 5700 with 34%kinetic, 5 % energy, blast, heat and cold. 1st attack knockdown, and 2nd dizzy. In the wild,thezucca boars Ihave come across have none of these stats available. And to boot this was a 17th level pet!

CH's are my best customers needing pet stims (rather then having to waste 15 skill pts on medic) and vitality packs. And since pet wielding is a big thing, I have found that my lower level pets are BEST SELLERS for them so they have one Killer pet, and one wuss pet but both get them ch xp. So where the argument is I am not sure! PLUS tailors and chefs love my items too! I have a chef that buys my items to grind chef, but he isable to make a profit off his foods, and BE clothes help out many many skill tree people. Be it a BE medic shirt, or a Ferious Shirt for the CH, or a Mask scent item to help that hunter on a vicious planet, there are more than just CH's that are appealed to a MBE or NBE for that matter! There is plenty of money to be made as a BE from creatures as well as clothes. I have been selling my clothes for 2k a piece with no problem, then a tailor can turn it around and make 20k from a shirt...no issues there!