Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: BE Issues Round 2
Ok, I've gone through your feedback and revised this list. Some items have been removed, specifically items pertaining to interdependencies on other classes and skills. I'll move things like that to a wish list post. I added a few things I missed and have clarified others. Read through this and post your thoughts.
Clone Engineering Issues
- This is currently our biggest issue. Before the last big patch that contained our tissues fixes, we were told that the cloning changes were not quite ready and would be in the next big patch. It is now the next big patch or so it would seem and no sight of the cloning fixes. The clones we can make for CH's are not desirable compared to other pets at any given cert level, compared to what's available in the wild. For non-CH's, our best pets under cl 15 can't compare to rock beetles, mountain krevol, or cowardly gurreck. Now with mounts being added, we will be missing out on the full potential of the mount market. There are reported to be non-ch versions of all the mounts spawning in the wild. BE's can only make two for non-CH's. We feel getting the cloning changes completed and pushed live should be the top priority for BE fixes.
- To be fixed with the upcoming cloning changes (gleaned from feedback we've been given so far.
- Diversity - currently there are very few creatures we can make. This was reported to be more than doubled with the new cloning changes. Some of these will not have tamable versions in the wild. While we understand CH's will get some unique creatures we can't make while we get creatures they can't normally tame, we do hope we will get something from every animal type. Currently, we have no snakes or flyers for example.
- Bugged clones
- Viability - We should be able to make pets of any given CL with the stats of a creature several CL higher.
- Complete control over HAM, damage, armor, special attacks and CL - A concern is whether we will be able to lower stats during the process. If we are trying to make a CL 15 creature and it's coming out to be a CL 16 creature, can we lower the stats to fit the order? We have not been told whether or not we will be able to control resists. We would like to see the ability to do this if we can't already in the new system.
- More information will be displayed, including Armor, special abilities, resist and CL.
- Full-grown size will vary greatly depending on the final stats. One concern is whether we will have any control over this.
- Coloring clones
- Other issues and bugs
- Currently, once a clone is tamed, it no longer retains the creator's mark. A BE'd pet should display who made it as well as the owner.
- DNA is not lost when creating a DNA template. I got a report that when this happens the DNA loses stats. I'll try to get hard data on this.
- The resource formula for clones still has UT. UT is not found on creature food or flora food.
- To date, no one has been able to affect the DPS of a creature, we can raise damage, but the speed goes up accordingly. While there is some variation of dps, it seems random. We would like to have some control over this.
- Psychology appears to have no effect on the creature or its effect is unknown. We'd like an official explanation of this stat.
- Many feel that cloning gives too little xp given the considerable time required to gather the samples needed to make a clone. We'd like you to look into upping the xp rate for clones to take this into account.
- BE's get no UXP from clones. We'd like to see some UXP given from taming or combat.
- Rapid-fire clicking DNA samples will insert the same sample multiple times into a DNA template without causing an invalid ingredient message making it possible to craft clones using a single DNA sample. I haven't been able to reproduce this myself, but others have. Information indicates it may be linked to lag.
- Pet deeds still show under Misc/Item on vendors and the bazaar.
Tissue Engineering Issues
- Stacking - There are still stacking issues. We were told some stats would not stack on a single piece of clothing but that this would be fixed later. I'll put it in this list until a better fix can be found. Update, the 11/3 patch notes list this as fixed. Will try to verify and confirm.
- Stacking - multiples of the same enhancement used to stack on a single piece of clothing and no longer does. Is this intentional or something we could get fixed?
- Resource availability - even with lair searching and fishing, eggs and fish are hard to get in any quantity.
- Bioharvesters - This idea has mixed popularity, but is one suggestion for gathering milk, eggs, mollusks and fish.
- Eggs - It's been suggested that eggs should be found on certain types of lairs - specifically insects, reptiles and avian. Lairs of creatures with higher cl would yield more eggs.
- Fish - The current method for fishing is not sufficient. Either make Survival skill increase the yield of fishing since fishing gives survival xp or implement fish traps as has been suggested before.
- Rare resources - Milk, mollusks, seafood - you have a better chance of finding a holocron it seems. Milk could be added to lair searches of lairs with female creatures as in the egg suggestion above or made a harvestable resource from female creatures. Creatures classified as part crustacean like rancors and quenker could give seafood. Some reasonable method of harvesting mollusks is also needed. Perhaps they culd be added to lairs near water.
- Chef additions - I have never had a chef seek me out for these. Many seem to feel that these are too expensive to make for the little benefit they give to chefs. Also these are not usable in all chef items. There may be more of a market if additives could be used in things like Tatooine Sunburn or Breath of Heaven. Many of these cost as much to make as the food to which they can be added.
- The following chef tissue additives list NO STATS at all, they have only a generic text description of the actual tissue without giving a statisitical description of the power of the item anywhere:
- Cognitive Enhancer
- Devaronian Alipedene
- Bio-Strength Formula
- Macrosodial Tetramate (unsure - milk)
- Personaphene (unsure - seafood)
- Macrosocial Pentamate (unsure - milk)
- Refined Alipedene
- Systemic Cognitive Reformat
- Pet vitality packs gain no benefit from using advanced BEC's and LS's. Using the same flora and inorganic, a vitality pack made using normal subcomponents will be exactly the same as one made using advanced subcomponents. Was this intentional?
- Resources for tissues are not lost during a critical failure on the initial combine.
- There is a category for pet stims, but they still show up under pharmaceuticals.
DNA Sampling Issues
- There should be a default macro for /sampledna like there is for every other skill. Currently, new BE's have to make one themselves. Reported fixed on TC. Will try to get verification.
- Many feel the mind cost for sampling is way too high.
- I'm seeing many reports from novice BE's that they are having extremely high failure rates sampling things like minor worrts, rills, flesh eating chuba, gnorts and the like. These are all newbie mobs and there is no reason a novice be shouldn't have a reasonable chance of sampling from them successfully. We would appreciate some feedback in this.
- Once we sample a creature to death, we can no longer harvest resources from the corpse. Given the need for meat, we'd like to be able to harvest from creatures we've killed in this fashion.
- Storage - Other crafts have stackable resources. Our DNA does not stack. While it's understood that it does not stack due to the different stats, it would be nice to have a container to hold DNA in a smaller volume. This container could, for example have a volume of 10 and hold 50 samples and only hold DNA samples. It would not need to take the place of a backpack.
- Why does our DNA sampling now seem to cap at CL 75 when we used to be able to sample from anything in the game?
- Will DNA suffer from decay penalties with the new decay on death system?
- Zero risk DNA samples can be obtained in The Warren from caged critters (unsure if this has been fixed or not.)
Engineering Technology Issues
Talthazar wrote:
This is currently our biggest issue. Before the last big patch that contained our tissues fixes, we were told that the cloning changes were not quite ready and would be in the next big patch.
Not to split hairs or anything, but if we are going to try and establish a good communication with the devs then I think we need to be on the up-and-up on our end. I see people posting all of the time that they "swear" the dev said it would be in the next patch but I can't find that post.
This post:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=bio-engineer&message.id=15867&page=1
DOES NOT say that the cloning updates will be in the next big patch. WHAT HE DOES say is that the cloning update missed the "current" big pach going out. He didn't say when the cloning update was going in.
Here's the passage in question:
Holocron wrote:
I'm just the messenger.
First, the bad news, it doesn’t look like everything is going to make this next big update as originally stated. The enhanced creature crafting stuff is taking longer than originally expected and will most likely not make it. Here’s the stuff that will be included in the update and I strongly recommend everyone check it out as soon as it goes up to Test Center and give feedback here.
Not to be a big meanie, but I hate it when people misquote and then slander someone.
Erais on Scylla
Talthazar wrote:
You know what? You're right, but the intention was not to slander. It's been said so many times, I started to believe it myself. That does not change the issue that we need these clone fixes soon. I've put up a new post without the non-existent promise.
My apologies. I don't doubt that you meant anything by it. It's just that I kept reading that over-and-over again that I was ready to vent.
Seeing it on some joe blow's email is one thing. I really didn't want it on any official communiation (however, I, like many others, am highly disappointed that it is not in the next big patch).
Overall, good summary though.
Erais on Scylla
a very thorough summary Talthazar... excellent. I do have a small concern over nerfing or easing some of the xp-gathering methods such as sampling, and to a lesser degree, crafting. I do agree with you that more xps should be given for crafting creatures...however, I have seen a boom in the BE profession (on kettemoor) post-patch...and a rise in macro-grinding as well...andI fear that an increase in xps given forcrafting will result inmasters appearing "overnight"...perhaps I am just bitter that I had to double-click my way to master!! lol... the sampling issue is one I have heard of from novices as well...however, not recently (since the aggro fix)...
keep up the good work!
ikti iazzi
kettemoor MBE
Thanks for the feedback. I would like to keep feedback out of this post and in the second post - "BE Issues - Round 2 Revision"
Thanks
Nice list, thanks for compiling it. I have a few more for you:
Cloning
1) Experimentation is still severely bugged. When you say put 3 points into experimenting up one of the attributes, and there are 6 slots to experiment in that attribute, after the first experiment those slots "shrink" and you can do no further experimentation on that attribute. This is a big problem, and is inconsistent with how experimentation works in everything else.
2) Rebalancing the clone tree. I consider this a completely separate issue from "viability" and "diversity". There needs to actually be some thought put into balancing the tree, and this is huge. Mounts should be in box 3, box 4 or higher. No mounts should appear below that. Also, the best non-CH creatures should also be in the upper boxes, not the lower ones. There really is very little incentive right now to go from box 1 to box 2 or box 2 to box 3. You gain almost nothing. It seems like now the higher up you go in clone the more worthless each successive box is to you.
General
1) In addition to the bazar, there needs to be a category for pets and pet supplies on the planetary map under vendors
Tissues
1) Nobody has a clue how the finer points of vitality packs actually work. Seems to be no incentive at all to make powerful ones. A little clarity here would help.
2) Still questions about whether tissues work. Personally in my experimentation with mask scent I don't believe it does. I've verified that it has 0 effect on how long mask scent lasts or the recovery rate. It seems like it may have some effect on how often mask scent is "broken" by creatures, but this is very difficult to tell. Some of the other tissues like bleed defense and melee and stun defense are very difficult to verify whether they work or not, but if you suspect one tissue doesn't work (i.e. mask scent) then you naturally question the others too, especially given how bug-ridden everything having to do with this profession has been (and still is).
3) The bug where cloths/rfp's override ones with bonuses in the same piece of clothing is still there even though the developer said it was fixed. The workaround is to take non-modded cloths/rfp's out of the crates, but many tailors have lost many cloths due to this bug and I'm sure will continue to until it's fixed.
Cloning
1) Not sure how I missed that one. I was sure it was in the list.
2) With so little information on the new cloning system, it's hard to know how to tackle this one.
General
1) This was added in the patch notes on TC just the other day. Also added were BE options for Ad barking.
Tissues
1) Good point, I'll add it to the list.
2) Actually, I have just the opposite experience. I notice a reduction in the remask timer when my maskscent is broken.
3) We knew this wouldn't be perfect in the last patch. This is reported fixed on TC now.