Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: Formula to determine what you can sample!
Hey all,
I've taken a little vacation from this board while I try to finish out my profession grinding (24 down and still no unlock 
). I'm still a Master BE tho and loving it! I threw together a direct clone of a Gaping Spider Hunter with 5 VHQ samples and put it into a Cu Pa. Came out as CL43 with AR1 and 30% kinetic/energy, 80% blast, 500 damage, ranged attack, and medium poison/stun specials. Sold it for 70K within 2 minutes of spamming in Coronet!
Anyway, I was thinking about exactly how the system determines what we can sample and what our chances of success are. As some of you may remember, a while ago the devs changed the sampling system. Before we could sample almost anything (as long as we could get close enough), regardless of our DNA Harvesting stat mod (at least that's how I understood it to work, I wasn't a BE back then). Nowadays it compares that stat mod to the creature's level to determine our chances of success.
Actually, knowing how most chance rolls are handled in this game I'm guessing that it's not a chance of success, but rather a chance of failure. This makes a small difference due to how this game also usually rounds up percentages.
So, taking my experiences sampling through the levels and giving it a little thought, I was able to come up with 2 possible formulas:
Chance of Failure = 100 - (DNA Harvesting Mod - Creature Level)
- or -
Chance of Failure = (Creature Level / DNA Harvesting Mod) x 100
The first formula is simple and elegant. However, I believe the second formula to be more realistic. Note that both formulas assume that if the Creature's Level is greater than your DNA Harvesting Mod that you will always fail taking samples from them. Below I've made some tables of the chances of failure for both of the formulas:
Formula 1: Chance of Failure = 100 - (DNA Harvesting Mod - Creature Level)
.------------------------------------------------------------.
| LEVEL | MOD | EXAMPLE CREATURE LEVELS |
| | |100 | 90 | 75 | 50 | 30 | 20 | 15 | 10 | 5 |
|---------|-----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|
| Master | 100 |100 | 90 | 75 | 50 | 30 | 20 | 15 | 10 | 5 |
|---------|-----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|
| Level 4 | 75 | X | X |100 | 75 | 55 | 45 | 40 | 35 | 30 |
|---------|-----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|
| Level 3 | 60 | X | X | X | 90 | 70 | 60 | 55 | 50 | 45 |
|---------|-----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|
| Level 2 | 45 | X | X | X | X | 85 | 75 | 70 | 65 | 60 |
|---------|-----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|
| Level 1 | 30 | X | X | X | X |100 | 90 | 85 | 80 | 75 |
|---------|-----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|
| Novice | 15 | X | X | X | X | X | X |100 | 95 | 90 |
'------------------------------------------------------------'
While this looks okay, some of the numbers look way off, especially at the lower levels. I know being a noob BE is tough, but I don't remember the odds of sampling a Dwarf Nuna being 1 in 19! Let's look at the same samples using the second formula:
Formula 2: Chance of Failure = (Creature Level / DNA Harvesting Mod) x 100
.------------------------------------------------------------.
| LEVEL | MOD | EXAMPLE CREATURE LEVELS |
| | | 100| 90 | 75 | 50 | 30 | 20 | 15 | 10 | 5 |
|---------|-----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|
| Master | 100 | 100| 90 | 75 | 50 | 30 | 20 | 15 | 10 | 5 |
|---------|-----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|
| Level 4 | 75 | X | X |100 | 67 | 40 | 27 | 20 | 14 | 7 |
|---------|-----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|
| Level 3 | 60 | X | X | X | 84 | 50 | 34 | 25 | 17 | 9 |
|---------|-----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|
| Level 2 | 45 | X | X | X | X | 67 | 45 | 34 | 23 | 12 |
|---------|-----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|
| Level 1 | 30 | X | X | X | X |100 | 67 | 50 | 34 | 17 |
|---------|-----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|
| Novice | 15 | X | X | X | X | X | X |100 | 67 | 34 |
'------------------------------------------------------------'
Now those numbers seem a lot more realistic. The 1 in 3 chance of failure for sampling CL5 creatures as a novice seems about right, and the 50/50 chance of sampling a CL50 creature as a master seems good too. The only thing that seems a little off is the X's and the 100% chance of failures. I know as a noob I _was_ able to sample Pikets, it just took a lot of attempts. So maybe it's not 100% but maybe 99%, I don't know... what do you guys think?
To reiterate, if this is correct (which it appears to be), the formula to determine a Bio-Engineer's chance of failure while sampling would be:
Chance of Failure = (Creature Level / DNA Harvesting Mod) x 100
This is great for the BE-in-training to figure out what they can and can't sample. However, there is something interesting in these numbers for the Master BE as well. If this formula is correct, it would mean that a Master BE could potentially sample from creatures above CL75! I don't know where the idea of the CL75 cap came from, I don't remember a dev stating it, just seems to be the accepted cap. In fact, people used to think it was CL70, until it was disproved. Perhaps we just haven't tried sampling from CL75+ creatures enough to actually get a sample? Given that they are usually aggressive, social, and just plain scary would give reason to why this hasn't been attempted too much. Plus our chance of success is less than 25%, making it really messy when you (likely) fail or get noticed. That being said, if the CL75 is not a hard cap, we should be able to sample up to CL99 creatures with enough luck and determination (buffs and armor would be very helpful too 
).
Another interesting aspect of this theory is Medium Armor. Logic would dictate that Fortitude of 1000 would grant it, which would only be possible with 5 VHQ samples from something with AR2 and experimentation. A quick search at swgcreatures.com shows that there are 3 possible creatures that we may be able to sample: Twilight Deathstrikers (CL88), Kimogilas (CL95), and Ancient Bull Rancors (CL98). I think the Twilight Deathstriker is the boss from some sort of Mantigrue lair. BTW, it also has the best resists of the 3 (70% kinetic, 60% energy, 100% heat/cold/acid/elec).
All I know is as soon as I finish grinding and get back my TKM skills I'm going to be trying this! I think that Malkloc Plainswalkers would be best for testing this, seeing as they aren't aggressive or too nasty. I'll let you guys know the results...
Novice BE - up to CL20
DNA1 - CL30
DNA2 - CL40
DNA3 - CL50
DNA4 - CL60
MBE - CL75
Vegas420 wrote:
But at DNA IV people have been able to sample the mutant Rancors (It's tough but possible) and they're CL 75, so that "cap" can't be accurate for DNA IV, in other words, there' no signifcant bonus to being a master aside form some skins, and the VHQ samples.
That what I said, it's prolly like 99% or something, not 100%. It can be done, it's just very difficult.
What I'm interested in is the creatures over CL75...
Try dropping MBE, then sampling MR's andthen repeat that 
)
I dropped part of BE for a hologrind (worst thing I ever did) and on the way back up I spent an entire night trying to sample Mutants at Sample IV and didn't get one sucess, so even though it isn't technically a hard cap, it's effectively a hard cap...
Vegas420 wrote:
But at DNA IV people have been able to sample the mutant Rancors (It's tough but possible) and they're CL 75, so that "cap" can't be accurate for DNA IV, in other words, there' no signifcant bonus to being a master aside form some skins, and the VHQ samples.
The listed "forumla" is merely a guideline that a person could follow if they want to know what they can sample more than others. I think the majority of the BE's out there will admit that theoretically a Novice BE could sample a MR; however, the failure rate would be extremely high. As for the cap at CL75, to my knowledge there has been nothing officially stated that CL75 IS the cap. However, like Meroc said it is effectively a soft cap. If someone out there (post Publish 6) has been able to sample +CL75 please state what you sampled and if possible, provide somewhat legitimate information. I don't think anyone wants to hear someone rattle off that they "...always sample Stoneskin Hanadaks and Krayt Dragons all the time".
Cylenthia_Tavishaun wrote:
There is no perfect formula.
The listed "forumla" is merely a guideline that a person could follow if they want to know what they can sample more than others. I think the majority of the BE's out there will admit that theoretically a Novice BE could sample a MR; however, the failure rate would be extremely high. As for the cap at CL75, to my knowledge there has been nothing officially stated that CL75 IS the cap. However, like Meroc said it is effectively a soft cap. If someone out there (post Publish 6) has been able to sample +CL75 please state what you sampled and if possible, provide somewhat legitimate information. I don't think anyone wants to hear someone rattle off that they "...always sample Stoneskin Hanadaks and Krayt Dragons all the time".
Agreed
Now, I know someone with Sampling 4 that has gotten a kimogila sample. Six of them in fact. He said his success rate was litterally around 1 in 100, but with help he was able to keep himself and the kimo alive long enough to get a sample (only ever got 1 sample per Kimo, death on success). This was naturally several hours worth of work. Now, kimos are around cl 95, so obviously the 75 cap is a myth. Also, someone on these very boards stated that they obtained an Enraged Rancor sample, which is around cl 85 or 90.
Now, my friend tried sampling the Giant Dune Kimogila at the static spawn in Kimo City, but he said it would not let him sample. Not that he sampled and failed, but he tried to sample and it wouldn't sample. So there IS a cap somewhere, just not at 75. He was working on figuring out how high he could sample, so he is going to try jeuvenile canyon krayts (cl 122) next. Heh, good luck with those guys.
So, in other words, your second formula may be very close to right, although I think it may be x99 instead of x100, to allow for the possibility of success a little higher. CL 95 seemed to be a 99% fail chance for sampling 4, I have yet to find a Kimo as a master to try and sample within the last few days, I'll repost if I find anything. Lok is way too baren, it sucks.
Edited to change my wording so it didn't sound like he got 6 samples from a Kimo at DNA 4, hehe, I only get 2 tops from a 75 at Master.
Message Edited by bigjeff5 on 03-12-2004 05:22 PM
bigjeff5 wrote:
As to the hard cap at 75, it doesn't exist. Roughly cl 70 is the top of what I would call "easilly sampleable" creatures. As a master BE I can get about a 1 in 5 success rate on cl 70's. 75 (i.e. mutant rancors) are tougher, but the biggest problem is getting close to them, not sampling them. They are about a 1 in 10 chance, with very high aggro from failure rate, at MBE.
Now, I know someone with Sampling 4 that has gotten a kimogila sample. Six of them in fact. He said his success rate was litterally around 1 in 100, but with help he was able to keep himself and the kimo alive long enough to get a sample (only ever got 1 sample per Kimo, death on success). This was naturally several hours worth of work. Now, kimos are around cl 95, so obviously the 75 cap is a myth. Also, someone on these very boards stated that they obtained an Enraged Rancor sample, which is around cl 85 or 90.
Now, my friend tried sampling the Giant Dune Kimogila at the static spawn in Kimo City, but he said it would not let him sample. Not that he sampled and failed, but he tried to sample and it wouldn't sample. So there IS a cap somewhere, just not at 75. He was working on figuring out how high he could sample, so he is going to try jeuvenile canyon krayts (cl 122) next. Heh, good luck with those guys.
So, in other words, your second formula may be very close to right, although I think it may be x99 instead of x100, to allow for the possibility of success a little higher. CL 95 seemed to be a 99% fail chance for sampling 4, I have yet to find a Kimo as a master to try and sample within the last few days, I'll repost if I find anything. Lok is way too baren, it sucks.
Edited to change my wording so it didn't sound like he got 6 samples from a Kimo at DNA 4, hehe, I only get 2 tops from a 75 at Master.
Message Edited by bigjeff5 on 03-12-2004 05:22 PM
Awesome, that's great info!
Like I said before, I think the easiest thing to sample above cl75 would be Malkloc Plainswalkers, as they're the only thing up that high that aren't aggressive...
Message Edited by SonGouki on 03-13-2004 06:39 PM