Bio Engineer Archive

To be honest, no one knows as yet exactly what the devs will decide is eventually going to be a cap.

Personally, I'm working in the 2900-3K health and action, 2k mind range, with minimal damage and resists under 20% for Kinetic and Energy as a target range. The Cowardly Gurreck has 3200 health, which seemed to be about the top for the non-ch previously, so I am guessing that will be near the limit for our creatures.

There are CL10 pets in the 6K health range, but they generally are very low in action/mind pools, which some suggest could be a problem with pets running from a fight, etc.

Until the Devs actually come out with some kind of statement, or set a limit and we smack into it often enough to recognize its being there, everything else is just surmise, educated or not.

Others will no doubt have various things to contribute, and you can learn a lot by reading the forums, yours is not a particularly unique topic of inquiry here.

LLan

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Akelan wrote:
To be honest, no one knows as yet exactly what the devs will decide is eventually going to be a cap.

Personally, I'm working in the 2900-3K health and action, 2k mind range, with minimal damage and resists under 20% for Kinetic and Energy as a target range. The Cowardly Gurreck has 3200 health, which seemed to be about the top for the non-ch previously, so I am guessing that will be near the limit for our creatures.

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I think 3200 health is wishful thinking and not an accurate guess. I'm thinking CL10 BE pets will be no more than 1500 ham. With the mountable bol at 900 ham and most CH tamables at around 1k ham for CL10, I bet the devs won't let us go far beyond that and put a hard cap on cl10 or below. The non-ch kaadu has about 2200 at CL12 and I know they're not gonna let us get better than that.

The problem I have is that any creature with 1500 ham and basically no resists is pretty useless outside newb zones... gubber-bait for all intents and purposes. When you get in the 3k range with a little resist, they actually become somewhat useful without being more powerful than a Level 4 base combat profession (Pistol 4, Unarmed 4, etc). It could distract that rancor, or TMB or whatever just long enough for you to get away. It would also be a viable option for a novice CH to get a start.

If the NCH pet is supposed to be for non-combat purposes only (eye candy) I wish they would just come out and say so. I created a 3k/2k/1k CL 10 critter with 20% kinetic and 120-130 damage with Dizzy and stun attacks by accident, at level 1 tissue. And it didn't require much work. Just playing with various tissues I had harvested running aroun. From what I am seeing on these posts, that stands a good chance of getting smacked with the nerf bat.

I don't know how many times I have heard people complain that they can't find any NCH BE pets. Nobody makes them. I figured that was because tha balancing act of getting anything useful and still CL10 was too hard. I see now that it's really because nobody knows what will be a CL10 pet a month from now.

It is quite frustrating.

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InvincibleOverlord wrote:
The problem I have is that any creature with 1500 ham and basically no resists is pretty useless outside newb zones... gubber-bait for all intents and purposes. When you get in the 3k range with a little resist, they actually become somewhat useful without being more powerful than a Level 4 base combat profession (Pistol 4, Unarmed 4, etc). It could distract that rancor, or TMB or whatever just long enough for you to get away. It would also be a viable option for a novice CH to get a start.

If the NCH pet is supposed to be for non-combat purposes only (eye candy) I wish they would just come out and say so. I created a 3k/2k/1k CL 10 critter with 20% kinetic and 120-130 damage with Dizzy and stun attacks by accident, at level 1 tissue. And it didn't require much work. Just playing with various tissues I had harvested running aroun. From what I am seeing on these posts, that stands a good chance of getting smacked with the nerf bat.

I don't know how many times I have heard people complain that they can't find any NCH BE pets. Nobody makes them. I figured that was because tha balancing act of getting anything useful and still CL10 was too hard. I see now that it's really because nobody knows what will be a CL10 pet a month from now.

It is quite frustrating.

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The point is... non-ch pets are supposed to be just that, pets.. not tanks.. and I agree.

Don't forget it's NOT a nerf. One of my pet hates is people calling any re-calcing of pet's level's as a nerf. It's NOT. It's simply the dev's tweaking a patently complex and therefore difficult to perfect system. There are that many variables going into CL calculation that is is impossible to accuratly test all combines in a sensible ( i.e. 1 month - between pub's ) timescale. Therefore we have to accept that we will see refinements to the stats over time.

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Draccuss wrote:

Apparently you don't know the definition of "nerf". Hope this clears it up for you.

NERF

To make worse or weaken, usually in the context of weakening something in order to balance out a game.

Definition courtesy of www.urbandictionary.com

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Correct, in this case though it's not nerfing, but essentially bug fixing. Nerfing is correcting something that is working as designed. It's blatently obvious that a 10K HAM CL10 pet is not 'as designed' therefore it's a bug fix rather than a nerf.

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Shivash wrote:

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Draccuss wrote:

Apparently you don't know the definition of "nerf". Hope this clears it up for you.

NERF

To make worse or weaken, usually in the context of weakening something in order to balance out a game.

Definition courtesy of www.urbandictionary.com

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Correct, in this case though it's not nerfing, but essentially bug fixing. Nerfing is correcting something that is working as designed. It's blatently obvious that a 10K HAM CL10 pet is not 'as designed' therefore it's a bug fix rather than a nerf.

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Yeah, 10k may seem out of control some, but why is a 3-4k health pet out of control? Just about anyone on the server can kill that pet, easily enough.

Also, someone mentioned that pets are not intended to be tanks, they are just 'pets'. Does anyone want to give me a reason why people would want a pet if it can't do anything 'useful'? You can walk around all day with a level 2 gnort, and not one person will care. If you want to try to save your own hide when you can't live any more - that pet may be your only hope. Why not let it have *some* ability to help some. I don't see anywhere the absolute definition that none-ch can't have 'mini little tanks'.

Non CH pets should have low stats... Very low even... If someone wants a pet, tell him/her to become a CH, atleast partly...

I have to call BS on the people that think 1k is the max that a CL 10 should be, that non-CH can't tank and never should be able to, etc.

Take a look at the lowly 'nerfed' probot. It's been around forever. It's CL10 (less, actually). It has a ranged attack, and does more than 50 a shot (but this is from memory). It has no specials, but DOES have medium armor and 40% resist all unless it was built poorly. Depending on the antiquity of your probot, it may also have a crafting station and other perks that a 'mere' non-CH pet can't ever have... but you can't ever ride your probot.
Key point. 800 ham, and medium armor, and 40% resist all, gives it an effective H/A/M of 5333/5333/5333. That beats the shorts out of the 3k health, less on action/mind, 10% kinetic resist that many of us can get, and is still measurably better than the 4-5k health versions of the same. A 5k h/a/m pet with 20% resist kinetic would be measurably better, but not tremendously (an extra 900 points, effectively), and it wouldn't have that bonus that it's equally resistant to everything, close in or ranged (PvE melee is always kinetic. But many many PvE opponents use ranged, so damage type CAN and does vary. And nothing in PvE is armor piercing, so that medium armor on the probot counts for a LOT).

And here, we can't even get LIGHT armor below CL20-25 or so, with the currently 'too strong' mobs we can make.

Remember the 'wussy' probot, and check the math in case I'm wrong. With THAT as a baseline for comparison, none of the no-damage, weak specials, not-as-good effective ham or resists pets are as strong as you think they are. Or the probot, which devs have thought is fine for a while now, is a lot stronger than you give it credit for. DE made, no certs, no requirements, and as of publish seven can be repaired and maintained in combat.

Just because there are some silly droids atm doesnt justify there to be any usable non-CH pet that is really good. I still think non-CH pets should be very weak, and ofcourse this includes ALL droids aswell. In my eyes they are just pets.

Especially since they are nerfing the Republic Blaster aswell now. Why should CHs "share" a lesser version of their "weapons" when no other class really does so?

Either rework the certs on weapons, or nerf non-CH pets.

FWIW I do think a 3/2/1 (approx) HAM pet is completely valid, especially when combined with only a couple of reasonable resists ( i.e. about 15% ) and very low attack (30-40 or so ). BE's SHOULD be able to create pet's which a NON-CH can use for tanking - they just won't be great tanks. Remember also you CAN buff pets ( using some food's and doc buffs - unless they've changed the latter).