Bio Engineer Archive

In many tests over the weekend, I've found several things that I'm very concerned with regarding tissues:

1. Most tissues are for "Field Wear" (yeah right, you mean "Reinforced Fiber Panels"), yet there are very few articles of clothing that use RFPs, and a rare amount that use more than one different RFP. I did a count on articles of clothing that require SCs compared to RFPs but left it at home.


2. Many of the "nicer" articles of clothing use factory crate SCs and RFPs, yet these tissue bonuses don't stack. For example, you have a nice shirt or dress that uses 3 SCs from a factory crate, and you want that shirt to have tissues. Well now you have to create a crate of those tissues, then a crate of the SCs. Once you put the SCs in the outfit, it only accepts the stats of one tissue. So let's say each SC had +15 injury/wound treatment and you have to use 3 of them for the shirt. Well once you put them on then the shirt only has +15 injury/wound treatment bonus instead of +45 (or the +25 cap for one article of clothing that skill enhancers have). That means you just wasted 2 tissues. This is not right, or fair, as a Tailor is now affectively wasting tissues he/she may have purchased.

I also think we need more tissues. For example we have injury/wound treatment, but not speed. We have melee defense, but not ranged defense. We have bleeding and stun defense, but not dizzy or knockdown defense.

We started selling clothes (custom orders only) slowly over the weekend with enhancements. They did sell well. We had one gentleman who purchased 3 complete outfits, all different bonus "styles". One with wound/injury treatment, another with entertainer wound healing, and a final one with mask scent bonuses. We sold all enhanced clothes at: normal clothing costs + 500 credits per bonus (+1).

how do you figure you are wasting tissues when you make a more advanced peice of clothing that calls for 3 of the same tissue?

of course tissues dont stack like that,if they did it would be extremely unbalancing. the with advanced clothing taking more tissues is that theircomplexity demands more bio-enhanced tissue and when it all comes down to it; the customer is paying to be 'enhanced' AND look good at the same time.

dont be so concerned with how many tissues a certain article of clothing takes, just take it into account in your pricing and sell it. people will buy them because they dont want their clothes to look like 100cr bazar crap.

yes tissues have issues and there arent enough of a variety of them and experimentation and cloning sucks as well. the answer to your problem is not to charge based on bonus but instead charge based on normal cost + per tissue (i charge 1k) +whatever you feel is fair per bonus. that way you dont screw yourself everytime you sell a peice of advanced fieldwear that takes 6 tissues.

You need to view tissues like Krayt Tissues. I have almost zero knowledge on tailoring but going by your post, you've said that some of the 'nicer' ones requires more than one and still gives the same bonus.

This seems to be in line with say T21 needing 10 krayt tissues vs 1 needed for a pistol.

Kimogila, Master BE, reformed Lokian Monster

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makalas wrote:

how do you figure you are wasting tissues when you make a more advanced peice of clothing that calls for 3 of the same tissue?

Because I have to use resources to make those tissues. It's the same thing as creating 3 tissues in a crate, then destorying two of them. It's a waste of resources to just get a bonus of +15 of something.

of course tissues dont stack like that,if they did it would be extremely unbalancing.

I agree there would be an imbalancing if they allowed them to completely stack fully(3 tissues at +15 would be +45 for just one SC or RFB slot). However there should be a cap, like +20 or +25 (like it was before the patch) for one article of clothing. This makes more sense and I wouldn't feel as if I'm "wasting" tissues.

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Im not much of a tailor, but do you have to use the same panels in the clothing? If the tissues dont stack, use one SC panel that has tissue stats and make a crate, and then run the other crates as normal SC. So in you 3 panel clothing you use 1 panel that has +25 whatever and the other two panels are normal panels.


Lodi
Intrepid
BE3/2/4/3

I agree, the fact that certain articles of clothing take multiple tissues to get the bonus is a good thing imho. All it means is that this piece of clothing is more difficult to attain and it takes more effort on the BE and tailor to make it (i.e. factory crates tissues). Seperates the wheat from the chaff imho.

Also, the whole thing is overblown anyway. The absolute "worst" piece of clothing that I've found takes 4 identical tissues to get a bonus in it, but even most master level tailor items you can do with only 2 or 3. That's not bad imho, especially since the base price of those items of clothing is already well over 10k.

The only concern I do have though is about the variety of clothing the RFP's can go into. There is in fact only 3-4 shirts, and 3-4 pants that can take RFP's so what it does is encourages everyone to wear nearly identical sets of clothing, which is obviously a bad thing for the game. Also there is some real stupidity to the logic of what bonuses can go into what clothing. For example the cloak is an excellent and very popular item, especialy for rangers and scouts. But can you put mask scent or cammoflauge in it? nooooo.

Would have been much better imho to just simply put all bonuses into synthetic cloths (which go into just about every item of clothing anyway), rather than mess with RFPs and put all the "good" bonuses in that one.

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makalas wrote:

dont be so concerned with how many tissues a certain article of clothing takes, just take it into account in your pricing and sell it. people will buy them because they dont want their clothes to look like 100cr bazar crap.

yes tissues have issues and there arent enough of a variety of them and experimentation and cloning sucks as well. the answer to your problem is not to charge based on bonus but instead charge based on normal cost + per tissue (i charge 1k) +whatever you feel is fair per bonus. that way you dont screw yourself everytime you sell a peice of advanced fieldwear that takes 6 tissues.

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JediMasterCarlito wrote:

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Now my family has to change our pricing structure completely (which we started doing last night). We can't spend any more resources just "throwing away" tissues, so we have to charge the customer accordingly, andin some cases it gets very pricey. For example, we charge 500 credits per +1 bonus. Well this girl wanted some dress, I'm not sure I don't make theclothes, but the dress called for 3 SCs from a factory crate. She wanted it to have the music healingtissues, didn't care the cost. So we had to charge her 500 credits per +1 for one tissue, thenagreed on +250 creditsper +1 on the two other tissues that were "wasted".

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Well duh, so what is the problem? Let's see, the net effect of this is:

1) more tissues are needed from BE's <- a plus

2) nicer clothing items with bonuses will be harder to afford, meaning they'll stand out more <- another plus

3) BE's serious about tissues will have to produce them in factories, distinguishing them from the "dabblers" <- another plus

I see only positive in this, the only complaint you seem to make is that you can't now give away such outfits for cheap, and to that I say... good!

Don't armorsmiths use the RFPs that tailors make?

So basically we BEs sell tailors our tissues. Tailors sell the tissue enhanced RFPs to armorsmiths. Wookies stare with envy at everyone running around in enhanced armor.

Tune

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Lodied wrote:

Im not much of a tailor, but do you have to use the same panels in the clothing? If the tissues dont stack, use one SC panel that has tissue stats and make a crate, and then run the other crates as normal SC. So in you 3 panel clothing you use 1 panel that has +25 whatever and the other two panels are normal panels.

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See this is the bigger issue in my mind. If we didn't have such restrictions as let's say, a Tensile Release only be allowed to go into a Reinforced Fiber Panel, then we wouldn't have as many problems. Why? Because there are tons of clothes that call for a single Synthetic Cloth, or sometimes multiple Cloths but all in individual slots (so you'd have 2-3 different slots for one cloth, as opposed to one slot that calls for 3 cloths from a crate).

I think that restriction is horrible, only because as I mentioned before, most clothes take SCs, not RFPs. Yet most of our tissues come in the form of only be useable in RFPs. This makes no sense!

Now my family has to change our pricing structure completely (which we started doing last night). We can't spend any more resources just "throwing away" tissues, so we have to charge the customer accordingly, andin some cases it gets very pricey. For example, we charge 500 credits per +1 bonus. Well this girl wanted some dress, I'm not sure I don't make theclothes, but the dress called for 3 SCs from a factory crate. She wanted it to have the music healingtissues, didn't care the cost. So we had to charge her 500 credits per +1 for one tissue, thenagreed on +250 creditsper +1 on the two other tissues that were "wasted".

1) tissues dont work in armor

2) nothing in the same slot stacks!! - if you make a pet stim B do you get the bonuses from BOTH BEC's? of course not, its the same slot!! you didnt just waste a BEC.

3) two of the same tissue bonus in different slots doesnt stack as it should, but it will be fixed soon. it was reported, though, that bonuses from different tissues in different slots DObothshow up(i.e. 1 clothing itemwith2-4+ different skillmod bonuses).

1) more tissues are needed from BE's <- a plus

2) nicer clothing items with bonuses will be harder to afford, meaning they'll stand out more <- another plus

3) BE's serious about tissues will have to produce them in factories, distinguishing them from the "dabblers" <- another plus

I see only positive in this, the only complaint you seem to make is that you can't now give away such outfits for cheap, and to that I say... good!

I cannot agree with you here. Basically you're suggesting that only the wealthy should afford bio-enhanced clothing items. That's not right. Also, what happens when the incap/death decay system comes in? You honestly think people are going to spend 100K-150K or more on an outfit every two weeks thanks to decay? I think not, only the wealthy could afford something like that, so we're basically catering to one class of people, which again, is not right. I don't know anyone who buys a new set of armor every two weeks. The fact is people will probably spend less on bio-enhanced clothes if we must charge them for tissues that are being wasted.

Reported where? Because that's not the case on the live servers right now. When I first experimented on this, I figured that perhaps tissue bonuses don't stack because they're going into one slot. Well I couldn't sleep one night because I was thinking that perhaps if an article of clothing had more than one slot for synthetic cloths that perhaps two completely different tissues (serial # wise) would stack. This was not the case. It only accepted the highest bonus and disregarded the other one. I know this because I tried a lower and higher end injury/wound healing tissue. One was +15, the other +6. The final article of clothing said +15 and my PC stats were +45/+60.

Just to illustrate my point on the huge difference in the number of items that take SCs compared to the number that take RFPs, take a look at this page:

http://zero.xa.net/~shirow/swgtailor/public_html/staticpages/index.php?page=20030718095539654

A total of 24 items of clothing take RFPs, whereas every article of clothing but 10 take SCs! There are 124 articles of clothing that take either of these components! That means, that 75% of our tissues (12 field wear, 4 casual wear) only work in 19% of the clothes! Whereas 25% of our tissues work in 81%! That doesn't make any sense at all to me.