Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: thoughts on the new BE changes
I've read, like most of you, all about the new changes from the dev's and from our new correspondent. I can tell that the new changes are going to be substantial to our profession. My thought on the new cloning changes is that what we do now to make animals (combine 5 DNA samples to make a template, and then add some meat and floral to the template) will not work for this new system.
What I think will happen is that the cloning process will be split up. We will need to make several parts in order to make the finished animal. One part would be the specials, another for hams, another for the looks of the animal, and one more for the resistances and armor. You would combine these parts to make the final pet. This is similar to a lot of the high lvl schematics for the other professions. Weaponsmiths who make T21's don't just make the gun - they end up making 3 components. Each component has a major effect on the final outcome of the rifle itself.
What does this mean for us? I think the amount of DNA we use for the new system will rise. There is no way 5 samples of DNA could give us control of health, action, mind, armor, resistances, (2-3) special attacks (I figure 2 specials, and some animals have range attacks - can ours have them?), damage, speed, chance to hit, Psychology, and creature lvl. The biggest issue we have now is that some samples are used for too many things at once. With the mind and to hit being tied to 1 sample, and the dmg and speed also being tied to 1 sample we have no effective way to manipulate these stats accurately. By breaking these parts up, we would be able to manipulate all these stats independently. However, that would require us to get 1-to-several samples of DNA per item. Now bio-eng's will not need 5 samples per animal, they’ll need 10 (?) or more.
I think this would be a great thing. Imagine the possibilities - no one BE would be able to exactly duplicate another’s work. Plus, with the way the system is now, most people are just sampling 1 type of animal and using that DNA for all the different stats. With this new system, we would have to sample many different animals to get the best attributes from each animal to make our creations.
The difficulties I can see are identifying the animals that have the attributes desired for our orders, and actually sampling these animals. Both these problems can be resolved by mastering Ranger. The camo/scent mask bonus will allow us to sample from large agro animals, and the examine ability on ranger will help find the exact animal you want to sample from for the parts that you need. However, most people probably won’t want to master both professions, for it leaves you with 18 skill pts. We could get away with having other rangers identify the animal’s attributes and write these things down, but with the amount of animals already on the server, and the fact that new ones are added ever few months, this list will never be definitive, or accurate.
In some cases, getting these new samples will be easier because creature lvl will not be as big a factor in the clone (if that assumption is correct) as it currently is. But in most cases the best animals stats, resistances, and specials are found in the highest, agro animals in the game. If this is the way the new system works we will be needing more DNA than we did before, running more risk, and spending more time getting DNA from wild animals. Another major issue that will rise is storing the DNA samples. Because DNA does not stack, we would have to have a large amount of storage for extra DNA to make animals when they are ordered.
I have seen suggestions on the forums to resolve some of these issues - like an the ability for rangers/scouts to get blood/tissue samples from animals in the wild. One way to do it would be to allow scouts, or maybe just BE’s to be able to pull 1 sample from a dead animal. Then using a crafting station, and a specialized tool, the BE could extract a useable sample (or maybe multiple) from that tissue/blood sample. Something like this could help scouts for they could extract tissue from the animals they kill and then sell them to BE’s or a BE could put an order out for tissue samples from the creatures they can’t get close enough to sample. Others would then go hunt the animals, and sell back the tissue. I can see a limit for this as well. Allowing only a tissue to give only 1 DNA sample. The ability of the scout could also dictate his effectiveness in getting a tissue sample. Like how master scouts can harvest more from an animal than a novice. A high lvl scout would have a better chance of getting a tissue sample than just a novice.
So, from a BE’s stand point, he could get the tissues samples two ways. The BE could take the ranger line, get closer, sample the animal, and have a better chance of getting a good DNA sample faster. Or, if taking tissues samples from a dead animal were possible, a Bio-eng could go out himself and kill that large agro animal, take a tissue sample, and get a useable DNA sample from it (or hire someone to do it). The BE would have more choices in getting his DNA, and have an easer time in doing it. This tissue could be treated as a loot item, where only 1 would be given per animal. But if he kills several animals of the same type they would stack, saving space for the BE to sample for DNA when he feels like it.
Well these were my thoughts and ideas on the new clone changes I’m really excited about them. The thought of making animals that are truly customizable and designed for what we want them to do makes me wish that the changes were already out.
Sowi, Master bio-eng Radiant.
You don't need Ranger to sneak up to CL50+ critters although you will see a significant better success rate as you also gain additional camoflage points as they have been seen to have an extention to the maskscent powers. Also for the ability to read the special attacks you only need a minimum of 0/0/3/0 which isn't all that bad. The forth box gives you the chance to hit (non essential) and the mastery gives you the damage range which again isn't hugely significant.
But yes the amount of DNA needed is gonna rise for sure, I only hope they decrease the mind cost otherwise you'll use up a maxed mind pool and not have everything you need for even one clone. If the need for dna doubles then the mind drain should be halfed to reflect that.
I am ready and willing to collect tissue samples. (grin) Might as well get something useful from those ancient bull rancors when the bone/meat/hide is low quality.
In all seriousness, bio-engineer looks to have a lot a great potential. Potential largely unrecognized so far. Kudos to all of you who have figured out the complexities of the system. I look forward to the new changes (and my 10k HAM bearded jax). ![]()
- Paks
Master Ranger
Radiant Galaxy
Tal-N wrote:
But yes the amount of DNA needed is gonna rise for sure, I only hope they decrease the mind cost otherwise you'll use up a maxed mind pool and not have everything you need for even one clone. If the need for dna doubles then the mind drain should be halfed to reflect that.
I've thought for some time that the material requirements for making critters (especially powerful ones) was far too little imho so if they change that I would be happy about it. As far as the mind drain, I hope they leave it as it is, and here's why: it's not like we are all powerless in terms of how fast our mind drains, there is actually a LOT we can do about it. Starting with how we tweak our character stats, whatbuffs we get (food, drink, spices, doctor, entertainer, etc.)and what armor/clothing we chose to wear. Having mind drain become a bigger issue for BE's will just simply change their behavior and make us load up on some food/drink/spice or whateverbefore we head off on our sampling excursions. Not really that big a deal, but spreads the "love" around a little.
i understand that some think the dna requirements will go up, but has any dev actually said this? or is it pure speculation? from what we've seen from the dev team thus far, i don't seeing it being that indepth, i see them changing the experimentation screen so we can mess with the actual attributes. same dna, and same resource requirements.
keep in mind if you make things in individual components you'll still have ten experiment points to spread out over each component versus using only ten total on one critter. this leads to two outcomes one being us making super-critters that are 2-3 times stronger than regular ones (which i doubt the devs would allow) or them nerfing experimentation so succeeding only gives a slight improvement.
-sr