Bio Engineer Archive

Thread: BE question not Answered.

Factol_Pentar
Thu Apr 22, 2004 2:35 pm
#1


Some time ago Thunderheart askedcorrospondents to come up with 10 questions. Those were intended to be answered all at once but it just became too big of a project to get to all 38 correspondants 10 questions so he is now answering them ever week on Wednesday (yea its a little after Wednesday this week). The goal is to answer a question from each profession every other week. Our first question obvious as it is the most talked about subject in the forum and no matter what your position is on the matter the question is valid. The full list of questions and answers can be found here:


http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=in_live&message.id=12250


Bio-Engineer:


When will we get more documentation of the cloning system and if we can't get it, why? Every other craft able item in the game with experimentation lists percentages of what stat affects the final product. Even the most basic documentation is lacking from cloning like aggressiveness of skins, and minimum CL. The larger percentage of BE's that do not read these boards have no access to this information


Bio-Engineering was designed so that players could play out being a genetic engineer. Genetic engineering is not an exact science in that duplicating results is currently a nigh impossible task Hypothetically speaking, maybe you want to add a gene to a bunny rabbit to make a green glow-in-the-dark bunny rabbit, and it works and you have a green glow-in-the-dark bunny So then you want to make another green glow-in-the-dark bunny but when the second process is complete, the bunny rabbit only glows 5 days out of the week instead of 7 because of some recessive gene the scientist wasn’t aware of.< Based on giving the profession a realistic feel, the profession in the game is not an exact science either





Allieria Moonstrider
Done Dec 17th
To much has changed


Kevm
Thu Apr 22, 2004 2:40 pm
#2


Actually it is answered. There will not be any detailed information. They have included 'random' factors and will not detail the crafting process. They want things to remain an unknown and not an exact science.


I think this horse is now officially dead.


What we need to press for now is a fix to the system to ensure when we do a combine of the template into a skin we create a clone who's CL is appropriate for its stats. Even if the 'Invalid pet check' is done at this stage and all CLs are adjust to match their stats (I don't want to go the otherway since it seems to weaken the stats too much to match the CL).


Message Edited by Kevm on 04-22-2004 04:41 PM



Kreegan Lirpa
MBE - Cairdeas City - Wanderhome

Kreegan's BE Pets and Tissues - Cairdeas City, Naboo (7378 -6482)
Kreegan's Pet Meds - Right outside Coronet on the Map!
Tal-N
Thu Apr 22, 2004 2:55 pm
#3

The fact is that there shouldn't be any random factors in any of the crafting processes. We assume that there are random factors however even they are governed by rules and its those rules we need to be made aware of so we know what we do and do not have control over. From that position we can then say that we need to have control over that aspect or not, to be fair though a master bio-engineer should never have to leave something up to chance. Especially when our resources are very time consuming to gather and 100% unique to themselves, if the resources are so exact than the process needs to be equally exact so that the effort you put in reflects the result you get out. As it stands two people can make a CL10 pet with drastically different stats and overall power, if the power of the animal doesn't matter then why bother having the CL ratings at all?






Tal-N Chratk
Ahazi Master Bioengineer / Hunt Master / Rifleman
______________________
Tal'N Chratk
Shadowfire Bounterhunter / Commando

Kevm
Thu Apr 22, 2004 3:10 pm
#4






Tal-N wrote:

The fact is that there shouldn't be any random factors in any of the crafting processes. We assume that there are random factors however even they are governed by rules and its those rules we need to be made aware of so we know what we do and do not have control over. From that position we can then say that we need to have control over that aspect or not, to be fair though a master bio-engineer should never have to leave something up to chance. Especially when our resources are very time consuming to gather and 100% unique to themselves, if the resources are so exact than the process needs to be equally exact so that the effort you put in reflects the result you get out. As it stands two people can make a CL10 pet with drastically different stats and overall power, if the power of the animal doesn't matter then why bother having the CL ratings at all?









I agree with you Tal. I just think that we've gotten all we're going to from them about the crafting process. Maybe its time to refocus our efforts on either getting the CL displayed during crafting, or ensuring the final product will be valid?



Kreegan Lirpa
MBE - Cairdeas City - Wanderhome

Kreegan's BE Pets and Tissues - Cairdeas City, Naboo (7378 -6482)
Kreegan's Pet Meds - Right outside Coronet on the Map!
ArthurDentOnBria
Thu Apr 22, 2004 3:44 pm
#5

I don't think "random factors" are an issue here. The random factors seem to be the stats on the dna samples and differences during experimentation, but those honestly don't have a monumental impact. This is what draws people to "formulas". They know that using dna from the same animal, even if the quality of dna varies a bit (VHQ vs HQ and so forth), and even if experimentation varies a bit (great success vs amazing success and so forth) the results are going to be pretty consistent. But all that is not at issue. I don't hear anyone complaining about the fact that you sample an animal 10 times, use 5 samples create a gnort, then use the other 5 samples to create another gnort, and the two gnorts are not the same. Nobody is complaining about that, and that is not at issue. The issue is that there is a formula that determines CL, and that formula has bugs. OBVIOUS bugs.We see it, the devs see it, and it causes us all kinds of problems. I really could care less about documentation. If those bugs were taken care of there would be no need for documentation above what we already have.



ArthurDent - former Bio Engineer, Tailor, and Droid Engineer
Account cancelled 7/8/05 due to game breaking bugs in these professions that have been neglected for FAR too long. Last day July 27 2005
custom tailoring and droid orders welcome. "making Evil products since July 2003"
Achiever: 80%, Explorer: 60%, Socializer: 46%, Killa 13%


ArthurDentOnBria
Thu Apr 22, 2004 4:22 pm
#6

Actually, one *very* cool thing that TH mentions in that thread is about crafting tools and crafting stations. That debate has raged forever, lol, whether it pertains to experimentation, or assemby, or both, or neither. It's good to get a definitely anwswer to that age-old question... finally!



ArthurDent - former Bio Engineer, Tailor, and Droid Engineer
Account cancelled 7/8/05 due to game breaking bugs in these professions that have been neglected for FAR too long. Last day July 27 2005
custom tailoring and droid orders welcome. "making Evil products since July 2003"
Achiever: 80%, Explorer: 60%, Socializer: 46%, Killa 13%


XiLorith
Thu Apr 22, 2004 5:06 pm
#7

I may be in th minority here but I like the idea of having some randomness in the cloning stage. I agree that the CL is one area I would like to see clamped down a little bit, I have made so many lvl 11 mounts it is too funny. The randomness is one thing that makes this profession stand out from all other crafting professions. I applaud the fact that it is there. Just my 2 cents



XiLorith


AnakinsClone
Thu Apr 22, 2004 5:13 pm
#8

Except he's only talking about the initial crafting station modulepart that goes into the droid at creation. The quality of that component has no bearing on the final product. So regardless of experimentation, every droid will be the same quality crafting station.


Still no clarification as to whether using private crafting stations or droids product better results. 'Least that's how I read it.




Kuma's Pet Shop - Closed forever...
ArthurDentOnBria
Thu Apr 22, 2004 5:24 pm
#9


TH said:


The effectiveness rating on crafting tools and stations influences the chance of success or failure during the assembly and experimentation stages. As far as the droid itself, it has a neutral relationship (does not effect) on the crafting process.


While this is not 100% crystal clear, it's clear enough for me. I'm now guessing that a crafting droid is equivalent to a +0 crafting station. I've already run tests myself and verified that the quality of crafting tools has a bearing on assembly. That is very easy to test (especially when you're grinding). What was news to me though was the bit about experimentation success. Veeeeery interesting.



ArthurDent - former Bio Engineer, Tailor, and Droid Engineer
Account cancelled 7/8/05 due to game breaking bugs in these professions that have been neglected for FAR too long. Last day July 27 2005
custom tailoring and droid orders welcome. "making Evil products since July 2003"
Achiever: 80%, Explorer: 60%, Socializer: 46%, Killa 13%


Luxorblack
Thu Apr 22, 2004 5:48 pm
#10

Ugh...This whole thing sounds more like a fancy way of saying "We don't know whats wrong, and we don't want to try to fix it, live with it."



_________________________________________________________

Luxor Black, Parsec Enterprises [Adventureous Curator]
Master Junk Seller, Novice Merchant, Master Bio-Engineer


Visit Luxor's Antiques @ -2995, -6788 in Mos Omenos, Tatooine

AnakinsClone
Thu Apr 22, 2004 5:48 pm
#11

My apologies, I based my response on a reply TH gave in a follow up question. Didn't even see that Medic part.



Kuma's Pet Shop - Closed forever...
meroc
Fri Apr 23, 2004 1:32 am
#12

The thing that annoys me most about this "The formulas are random"crock that TH has put forward, is if the formula really are random then there is absolutely no harm in telling us what they are supposed to be!


Even (rand(1-1000) * Hardiness/pi = Health) (I made that up, it's not a real formula)wouldat least help us to know what range things are supposed to fall in.



Meroc

Taipan's Pet's and Bio Tissues, Anchorhead, Tatooine 430 -5000, Ahazi
Master Bio Engineer, Master Creature Handler, Part time Pistoleer.
BECalc 2.0, the Clone and Tissue Pricing tool for Bio Engineers
Version 1.x mirrored on SWG Warcry
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